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Official Predators Off-Season 2012 Thread - Part II

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Old
07-10-2012, 09:30 AM
  #426
Roman Yoshi
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
question for those wanting to move weber and the mention of Legwand...

We would be getting young pieces back for them. You are looking at replacing 13 million to hit the cap floor. You have to think we would be getting back 3 pieces to use now, and I guarentee those peices will not add up to 13 million. Unless your strategy includes taking on Thomas or Savards contracts, this does not make much sense. In this era of salary cap, you have to have 5-6 guys making 4-5 million bucks to hit the cap floor.
If you had read my post, you would've seen that the money saved on legwand would be used for a "replacement" for suter. I also think trading for Jbo would be a good idea to make up for weber.

Would we be a cap floor team? Yes. Is that a bad thing? If you are committing to a rebuild not really.

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07-10-2012, 10:56 AM
  #427
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Any idea who the Preds might be looking to sign as far forwards go?

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07-10-2012, 11:10 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Assuming we give Weber $8.5, moves will have to be made regardless, unless we drastically overpay our RFA's. Plus, if we take back a contract dump, I would assume that sweetens the deal for us and we get back better assets in return.
no, Weber at 8.5, Wilson at 2, SK at 3, blum/vet 7th will be 2 million combined. That gets us to the floor I thought. A move needs to be made somewhere, yes, but my point is trading Weber's 8.5 this year is tougher than we think because of the return, unless we take on that salary in 2-3 players. Then you have the problem of cutting a kid to Milwaukee which is another million to replace.

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07-10-2012, 11:25 AM
  #429
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JBo is useless to us unless we still have Weber. You go after JBo if we know we're keeping Weber.

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07-10-2012, 11:28 AM
  #430
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I'm not a negative fire Poile guy but this offseason seems to be worse than last offseason's fiasco.

He needs to step it up.

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07-10-2012, 11:55 AM
  #431
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Not instigating, just curious.

I, also, am not a Poile basher, and agree that this 2-year atrocity has been difficult to stomach to say the least, but I am after the reason for this anomaly.

Is it that Poile put too much stock into 3 players and their loyalty/word?

Did Suter express his hesitancy in re-signing last off-season to Weber that put Weber in a similar state of mind?

Are players and their agents taking advantage of Poile's honesty and conservatism?

Are there monetary issues that haven't surfaced? Is Poile hamstrung by the owners?

Did the 2 "slam dunk" signings (Suter/Weber) seem so in the bag that Poile didn't take them as seriously as he should have?

Will these manipulations by Suter make Poile more aggressive in the future?


Personally, I think that it's a perfect storm situation that he has spent a year and a half trying to repair. He focused on Weber, with no reason to believe that he wouldn't sign, got reamed, focused on Suter with similar results and now, sits here with a 2-year Norris candidate that says all the right things but hasn't signed a damn contract yet. I never bought the ridicule that the Preds just "let everyone go" that the dynamic duo were selling, but was Poile's undoing building his team around those 2 given their reluctance to sign?

I think we brought in too many players (wanted AK or Radulov, not both) trying to appease Suter, and in the end it cost us Tootoo (some consider this a good thing) and possibly a deeper run.

I hope that Weber can realize that he will not be playing with Suter again and that he can see the promising team around him needing a leader, a veteran and go out and prove to the hockey world that he, as captain, took his team to the next level.

I just don't know if he will.

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07-10-2012, 12:01 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Assuming we give Weber $8.5, moves will have to be made regardless, unless we drastically overpay our RFA's. Plus, if we take back a contract dump, I would assume that sweetens the deal for us and we get back better assets in return.
Weber and SK is probably in the 11.5-12mil range. Then there's Wilson and Blum. Reaching the floor without overpayment isn't tough as long as we keep Weber.

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07-10-2012, 12:27 PM
  #433
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When Trotz said that we would be a "cap team", he should have said "cap floor" team.

It's kind of the chicken or the egg - it's tough to shed the label of being a cheapskate franchise while being a cheapskate franchise.

Maybe, if we actually spent some money for once, we would be able to convince our own players that we might actually spend some money.

Adding a few cheap rentals at the trade deadline doesn't count. But hey, we have flexibility

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07-10-2012, 12:29 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
When Trotz said that we would be a "cap team", he should have said "cap floor" team.

It's kind of the chicken or the egg - it's tough to shed the label of being a cheapskate franchise while being a cheapskate franchise.

Maybe, if we actually spent some money for once, we would be able to convince our own players that we might actually spend some money.

Adding a few cheap rentals at the trade deadline doesn't count. But hey, we have flexibility
I thought locking up Rinne for 7 years was the start of them showing that they are willing to spend money. Maybe it was just a fluke.

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07-10-2012, 12:34 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
When Trotz said that we would be a "cap team", he should have said "cap floor" team.

It's kind of the chicken or the egg - it's tough to shed the label of being a cheapskate franchise while being a cheapskate franchise.

Maybe, if we actually spent some money for once, we would be able to convince our own players that we might actually spend some money.

Adding a few cheap rentals at the trade deadline doesn't count. But hey, we have flexibility
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash2Smash25 View Post
I thought locking up Rinne for 7 years was the start of them showing that they are willing to spend money. Maybe it was just a fluke.
I think that it's pretty ridiculous to be having this discussion without realizing that they were under the impression that Suter and Weber would be included in that scenario. With both of those guys signed and a couple of raises, being a cap team would be a reality.

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07-10-2012, 01:14 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I'm not a negative fire Poile guy but this offseason seems to be worse than last offseason's fiasco.

He needs to step it up.
Atleast he didn't make any mistakes this year taking players to arbitration. What a faff.

I hope Andrei is brought back. Seemed like he gelled well in the system. Any news on him?

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07-10-2012, 01:14 PM
  #437
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Doug has a point. Money and financial commitment supposedly aren't a problem anymore, yet we were the lowest spending team in the entire league last year. Actions speak louder than words.

I'm guessing if Weber is gone then previous claims of being big spenders are out the window? Again, actions speak louder than words. Our actions will continue to define us until we prove otherwise.

Even if Weber re-signs, we're on pace to be a floor team again.

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07-10-2012, 01:24 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
Atleast he didn't make any mistakes this year taking players to arbitration. What a faff.

I hope Andrei is brought back. Seemed like he gelled well in the system. Any news on him?
Preds have already said they will not be bringing back AK.

I'd like to see him back too.

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07-10-2012, 01:31 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Doug has a point. Money and financial commitment supposedly aren't a problem anymore, yet we were the lowest spending team in the entire league last year. Actions speak louder than words.

I'm guessing if Weber is gone then previous claims of being big spenders are out the window? Again, actions speak louder than words. Our actions will continue to define us until we prove otherwise.

Even if Weber re-signs, we're on pace to be a floor team again.
Let's see .... we pay Rinne $7mil ... put in a $7mil - ish offer to Suter ... are expecting to pay even more to that to Weber .... and made an offer to Parise. Where is the indication that the team isn't willing to spend?

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07-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #440
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I think that it's pretty ridiculous to be having this discussion without realizing that they were under the impression that Suter and Weber would be included in that scenario. With both of those guys signed and a couple of raises, being a cap team would be a reality.
A GM should have some kind of backup plan in case you have a situation where Suter signs somewhere else. Also surely there are some talented forwards on the free agent market so why not go after them?

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07-10-2012, 01:39 PM
  #441
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Preds have already said they will not be bringing back AK.

I'd like to see him back too.
That's a shame. Yea he may have made a mistake during the postseason with that whole out late at night thing, but unlike Rads, he was still playing hard and being aggressive on the ice.

Seems like less is more this upcoming season. But I doubt 'less is more' will be very attractive to Weber. Sigh.

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07-10-2012, 01:44 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
...I'm guessing if Weber is gone then previous claims of being big spenders are out the window? Again, actions speak louder than words. Our actions will continue to define us until we prove otherwise.

Even if Weber re-signs, we're on pace to be a floor team again.
BUT, if Webs does end up being dealt, who would be worth the money the team would have to spend to be a cap team? Anybody? Let's face it, if Weber walks (however that scenario plays out) this is a rebuild year. All those promises were based on at least scenario B (having Weber and Pekka locked up).

Why spend on a crappy roster just to arbitrarily reach the cap? Let the kids develop and get some vets to hopefully squeak in the 8th seed. Better than blowing the dollars just to keep a promise based on a different reality...

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07-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Let's see .... we pay Rinne $7mil ... put in a $7mil - ish offer to Suter ... are expecting to pay even more to that to Weber .... and made an offer to Parise. Where is the indication that the team isn't willing to spend?
Willing...expecting...going to...would have....offered....

Aside from inking the goaltender and signing a few of our own B-grade players, we never actually have gotten any of that accomplished in the past 13 years.

Regardless of the details and right or wrong, players/agents/media still view us as a franchise that won't spend money to build a winner - more concerned with the bottom line than winning a cup.

Like it or not, that perception limits our attractiveness as a franchise to potential FAs.

Would it kill us to go into the year near the midpoint? Yeah, maybe that means you overpay for a guy here or there, but look at it like an investment - you're marketing your franchise to the rest of the league.

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07-10-2012, 01:54 PM
  #444
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BUT, if Webs does end up being dealt, who would be worth the money the team would have to spend to be a cap team? Anybody? Let's face it, if Weber walks (however that scenario plays out) this is a rebuild year. All those promises were based on at least scenario B (having Weber and Pekka locked up).

Why spend on a crappy roster just to arbitrarily reach the cap? Let the kids develop and get some vets to hopefully squeak in the 8th seed. Better than blowing the dollars just to keep a promise based on a different reality...
That's fine, and I agree it would be stupid to spend during a rebuild year. But the point still stands: we will continue to be defined by our actions until we prove otherwise. It's the harsh truth.

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07-10-2012, 02:11 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Willing...expecting...going to...would have....offered....

Aside from inking the goaltender and signing a few of our own B-grade players, we never actually have gotten any of that accomplished in the past 13 years.

Regardless of the details and right or wrong, players/agents/media still view us as a franchise that won't spend money to build a winner - more concerned with the bottom line than winning a cup.

Like it or not, that perception limits our attractiveness as a franchise to potential FAs.

Would it kill us to go into the year near the midpoint? Yeah, maybe that means you overpay for a guy here or there, but look at it like an investment - you're marketing your franchise to the rest of the league.
Willingness to pay a Suter or Weber $7+ million is reasonable. Saying we'd just have to overpay to reach some arbitrary number ... say tripling our pay level since 2004 .... is foolish. You don't pay name brand prices for generics.

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07-10-2012, 02:19 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Thrash2Smash25 View Post
A GM should have some kind of backup plan in case you have a situation where Suter signs somewhere else. Also surely there are some talented forwards on the free agent market so why not go after them?
I don't disagree, but the statement about being a cap team, was during the regular season, well before the ASG, and was made with the assumption that Suter/Weber would be a HUGE part of that payroll.

Plan B (not to mention C,D, etc...) were all in mind once the season was over, but when the comment was made, they were merely unlikely scenarios, or so they thought.

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07-10-2012, 02:20 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I'm not a negative fire Poile guy but this offseason seems to be worse than last offseason's fiasco.

He needs to step it up.
yes, the buck stops at his desk. I also tend to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he needs to right the ship. That's his job

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07-10-2012, 02:21 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Doug has a point. Money and financial commitment supposedly aren't a problem anymore, yet we were the lowest spending team in the entire league last year. Actions speak louder than words.

I'm guessing if Weber is gone then previous claims of being big spenders are out the window? Again, actions speak louder than words. Our actions will continue to define us until we prove otherwise.

Even if Weber re-signs, we're on pace to be a floor team again.
we are on pace to be that cap floor team. Our hope now, sadly, is that these kids play well enough to merit bigger contracts.

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07-10-2012, 03:17 PM
  #449
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we are on pace to be that cap floor team. Our hope now, sadly, is that these kids play well enough to merit bigger contracts.
Well, that kind of just happened. One of our kids grew up, played well, and bolted to Minnesota. Very likely in large part because he thought it would be easier to win in Minnesota over the life of the contract (see his latest quotes).

How do we make Nashville a more attractive destination?

Obviously, we're never going to be the market for guys looking for the spotlight. That's not necessary a bad thing.

We have a great place to live, no income tax, nice weather, good fans, etc, etc, etc.

Yet, if you asked 100 different hockey personalities, from management to players to media to fans to say one thing about the Preds, how many times would "cheap" or some derivation of that come up?

No one wants to play for a cap floor team if you can help it. No one looks in the mirror at the end of getting knocked out of the 2nd round and says - "geez, we did great considering we have the lowest payroll in the NHL".

Until we shed the "cheap" franchise rap, we're never going to be attractive to FAs, we're never going to be a preferred destination for our own players (unless you overpay them by 20% - Pekka/Gaustad).

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07-10-2012, 03:40 PM
  #450
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While I can't agree that Pekka is overpaid, I'll give you Gaustad.

Since you mentioned we need to shed the "cheap" label, how do you propose that we do so?

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