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CBJ-PHI (Rick Nash rumors and proposed deals; update: traded to NYR, July 23)

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07-03-2012, 11:11 PM
  #876
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Ryan is not a very good skater. This is not a system that is gonna make the most of his skills, and thus we are probably going to be over paying for what he brings, versus Voracek, who's well suited to this system imo. your probably going to see similar production from each of them in the system, but you would not be able to trade voracek for ryan straight up, and even if you could voraceks cheaper.

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07-03-2012, 11:20 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Ryan is not a very good skater. This is not a system that is gonna make the most of his skills, and thus we are probably going to be over paying for what he brings, versus Voracek, who's well suited to this system imo. your probably going to see similar production from each of them in the system, but you would not be able to trade voracek for ryan straight up, and even if you could voraceks cheaper.
Voracek hasn't even signed yet. His cap hit will be lower than Ryan's but probably not as big a difference as you're anticipating. And which Ryan are you watching? Ryan is a fine skater. He's not the best, but I would hardly make the claim that he's not a very good one. And you know who's even worse suited to laviolettes system, in theory? Scott Hartnell.

I guarantee you Ryan would put up better numbers than voracek right now in this system. And you'll say "not enough to warrant losing assets for" but it's the type of points that make him a more valuable asset on this team. Ryan is a better goal scorer. Period. We need wingers who can actually shoot the puck.

Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Briere, Voracek ALL pass first players.

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07-04-2012, 04:51 PM
  #878
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Apparently Howson asked for two of Seguin, Lucic, and Dougie Hamilton in negotiations with Boston for Nash... (plus picks/ prospects)

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...0&feedID=10428

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07-04-2012, 04:53 PM
  #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Apparently Howson asked for two of Seguin, Lucic, and Dougie Hamilton in negotiations with Boston for Nash...

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...0&feedID=10428
Lucic/Hamilton wouldn't be a bad deal at all for Boston for Nash.

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07-04-2012, 04:55 PM
  #880
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Lucic/Hamilton wouldn't be a bad deal at all for Boston for Nash.
...plus multiple picks / prospects?

Seems steep.

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07-04-2012, 05:00 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Lucic/Hamilton wouldn't be a bad deal at all for Boston for Nash.
You're insane. That's essentially the same as us offering b. schenn, Coburn and picks/prospects. Sound good? ..... Didn't think so.

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07-04-2012, 05:06 PM
  #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
...plus multiple picks / prospects?

Seems steep.
Nash is one of the best wingers in the game. You have to pay to get. Two players for him isn't a bad deal. I didn't click on that link though so if they wanted more picks and everything for Nash then I would think that is too steep.

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07-04-2012, 05:08 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Nash is one of the best wingers in the game. You have to pay to get. Two players for him isn't a bad deal. I didn't click on that link though so if they wanted more picks and everything for Nash then I would think that is too steep.
Would you trade Schenn / Couturier + Coburn for him straight up, even ignoring the other elements?

I can't believe he asked for Seguin. I guess it doesn't hurt to try?

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07-04-2012, 05:11 PM
  #884
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Lucic/Hamilton wouldn't be a bad deal at all for Boston for Nash.
Lucic straight up would be awful for Boston. Including anything else is madness.

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07-04-2012, 05:23 PM
  #885
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Lucic straight up would be awful for Boston. Including anything else is madness.
Where do you get your pot?

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07-04-2012, 05:32 PM
  #886
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Lucic straight up would be awful for Boston. Including anything else is madness.
lol

Caveman straight up for Nash?

You're insane to deny...not that it would ever be offered.

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07-04-2012, 05:36 PM
  #887
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Proposals including many of our pieces shouldn't be considered at this point, we'd have too many holes to fill. I see Holmgren trading mostly picks/prospects. 2 1sts would obviously go the other way, with like Gus and maybe a 3rd? Or Cousins?

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07-04-2012, 06:05 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
lol

Caveman straight up for Nash?

You're insane to deny...not that it would ever be offered.
.
A 25-30 goal, 60 point forward making $4.1M for a 30 goal 60 point forward making $7.8M. How does that make sense for Boston? The only advantage Nash has is you hope he scores more on a new team. I don't think he is worth the difference in cap hits.

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07-04-2012, 06:15 PM
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Would you trade Schenn / Couturier + Coburn for him straight up, even ignoring the other elements?

I can't believe he asked for Seguin. I guess it doesn't hurt to try?
Which is why I said Lucic and not Seguin

Something like Voracek/Coburn for Nash I would be tempted to. But we would need to find a replacement for Coburn because our D is looking bad already this year especially if we lose Carle.

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07-10-2012, 11:53 AM
  #890
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Apparently Phi is on Nash's short list for places he'll be okay to be traded to (Boston, Detroit, New York Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and San Jose), but I can't see him being moved anywhere due to their demands.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...h-s-trade-list

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07-10-2012, 11:54 AM
  #891
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07-10-2012, 12:32 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Which is why I said Lucic and not Seguin

Something like Voracek/Coburn for Nash I would be tempted to. But we would need to find a replacement for Coburn because our D is looking bad already this year especially if we lose Carle.
I would not trade Coburn at this point. He should be off the table. He's become our best defenseman, with kimmo getting older. He's really become a solid defenseman and we'd be wise to keep him, especially with how our D is looking right now.

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07-10-2012, 12:36 PM
  #893
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Honestly Nash's list is such ********. He asked for a trade, so Howson ought to go get a deal that Howson likes from wherever he can get it. And if Nash declines just tell him, if you'd prefer not to be traded to team X you're welcome to play for the Blue Jackets this year but quit ****ing jerking me around.

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07-10-2012, 12:44 PM
  #894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Voracek hasn't even signed yet. His cap hit will be lower than Ryan's but probably not as big a difference as you're anticipating. And which Ryan are you watching? Ryan is a fine skater. He's not the best, but I would hardly make the claim that he's not a very good one. And you know who's even worse suited to laviolettes system, in theory? Scott Hartnell.

I guarantee you Ryan would put up better numbers than voracek right now in this system. And you'll say "not enough to warrant losing assets for" but it's the type of points that make him a more valuable asset on this team. Ryan is a better goal scorer. Period. We need wingers who can actually shoot the puck.

Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Briere, Voracek ALL pass first players.
You make some good points. Our offense could really use at least one shoot-first winger with a really nasty shot.

As for the cap hits, $1.5 million is $1.5 million, know what I mean? It's worth considering.

Ryan is not a great skater. He's alright, probably better than Hartnell, so you've got a point there, but Hartnell's definitely faster than him, which is really useful in Laviolette's system. It doesn't matter though really, because the point wasn't that Ryan would be useless here due to his skating.The point and comparison was between Voracek and Ryan the two main assets likely to be swapped. With appreciation for what you're saying, I would would still rather have Voracek + cap space + assets than Ryan. I don't think trading Voracek + a 2nd rounder or something is going to be a necessarily disaster, but much more than that and I would have an issue with it. And word is Murray is asking for a hell of a lot more than that. I doubt he'll get it, but he's taken Holmgren to the cleaners before.

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07-10-2012, 12:57 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Honestly Nash's list is such ********. He asked for a trade, so Howson ought to go get a deal that Howson likes from wherever he can get it. And if Nash declines just tell him, if you'd prefer not to be traded to team X you're welcome to play for the Blue Jackets this year but quit ****ing jerking me around.
Uhmmm... Nash asked for a trade, only if in the end it benefited the Blue Jackets. Nash is in no rush to leave. Hence why Howson is in no rush to deal him. Hence why he can actually ask a premium for the player.

"Nash was adamant — repeating the same phrase several times — that he not only wanted to help his own career but also help the organization that drafted him No. 1 and helped him become one of the top stars in the NHL."

In other words, not even Nash will accept the trade if its not in favor of CBJ because of all of his friends there.

"I don't think necessarily it was, 'I want out.' He loves this organization. It's one of those things where it's a business and he thought maybe he could help this organization." - Derek Dorsett

Nash isn't some evil mastermind with lists, puppets and backstabbing on a D20 and all this. He thought "Hmm my value could be pretty high. I might be able to be moved to a team to help my career AND help all my friends in Columbus". If not, then yes he will play in Columbus. Howson is not being jerked around, Nash isn't killing his team, etc.

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07-10-2012, 01:05 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by CavemanLawyer View Post
Uhmmm... Nash asked for a trade, only if in the end it benefited the Blue Jackets. Nash is in no rush to leave. Hence why Howson is in no rush to deal him. Hence why he can actually ask a premium for the player.

"Nash was adamant — repeating the same phrase several times — that he not only wanted to help his own career but also help the organization that drafted him No. 1 and helped him become one of the top stars in the NHL."

In other words, not even Nash will accept the trade if its not in favor of CBJ because of all of his friends there.

"I don't think necessarily it was, 'I want out.' He loves this organization. It's one of those things where it's a business and he thought maybe he could help this organization." - Derek Dorsett

Nash isn't some evil mastermind with lists, puppets and backstabbing on a D20 and all this. He thought "Hmm my value could be pretty high. I might be able to be moved to a team to help my career AND help all my friends in Columbus". If not, then yes he will play in Columbus. Howson is not being jerked around, Nash isn't killing his team, etc.
Good point and I acknowledge your slyly subtle D&D reference.

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07-10-2012, 01:11 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by CavemanLawyer View Post
Uhmmm... Nash asked for a trade, only if in the end it benefited the Blue Jackets. Nash is in no rush to leave. Hence why Howson is in no rush to deal him. Hence why he can actually ask a premium for the player.

"Nash was adamant — repeating the same phrase several times — that he not only wanted to help his own career but also help the organization that drafted him No. 1 and helped him become one of the top stars in the NHL."

In other words, not even Nash will accept the trade if its not in favor of CBJ because of all of his friends there.

"I don't think necessarily it was, 'I want out.' He loves this organization. It's one of those things where it's a business and he thought maybe he could help this organization." - Derek Dorsett

Nash isn't some evil mastermind with lists, puppets and backstabbing on a D20 and all this. He thought "Hmm my value could be pretty high. I might be able to be moved to a team to help my career AND help all my friends in Columbus". If not, then yes he will play in Columbus. Howson is not being jerked around, Nash isn't killing his team, etc.
Good post, makes me see things differently.

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07-10-2012, 01:27 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Voracek hasn't even signed yet. His cap hit will be lower than Ryan's but probably not as big a difference as you're anticipating. And which Ryan are you watching? Ryan is a fine skater. He's not the best, but I would hardly make the claim that he's not a very good one. And you know who's even worse suited to laviolettes system, in theory? Scott Hartnell.

I guarantee you Ryan would put up better numbers than voracek right now in this system. And you'll say "not enough to warrant losing assets for" but it's the type of points that make him a more valuable asset on this team. Ryan is a better goal scorer. Period. We need wingers who can actually shoot the puck.

Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Briere, Voracek ALL pass first players.
Not really.

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07-10-2012, 02:53 PM
  #899
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Not really.
Schenn and Briere are more debatable, but they still tend to lean towards pass first than not in my opinion.

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07-10-2012, 03:12 PM
  #900
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Briere is 50-50. Sometimes he is a pass first player, sometimes he isn't.

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