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*OFFICIAL* Kitchener Rangers 2012-13 Season Thread

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07-09-2012, 02:52 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
They will be released publically for the past year during the Annual General Meeting for the season ticket holders in the 3rd+/- week of August.
I believe they can be viewed via the Rangers home page.
Thanks for the quick response. Actually, I was just interested in the breadth of information available, audited or not?

Looked on the website just now and could not find last year's F/S's. Do you have a link to last year's release? Much appreciated! Cheers.

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07-09-2012, 06:44 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Thanks for the quick response. Actually, I was just interested in the breadth of information available, audited or not?

Looked on the website just now and could not find last year's F/S's. Do you have a link to last year's release? Much appreciated! Cheers.
They are audited financial statements. I have never checked the website for it, but STH's get them via email or in person at the annual general meeting.

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07-10-2012, 12:22 PM
  #78
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And yet another example of the slime that constitutes the CHL. TFF!
How enlightening.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why the UofM student newspaper has declined to offer proof and/or issue a retraction, and the editor refuses to speak to anyone about the BS story they chose to print?

The NCAA is just as shady and underhanded as any other organization, including the CHL.

Get over yourself.

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07-10-2012, 12:36 PM
  #79
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Both NCAA and CHL are competing for the same kids in many cases so that's enough to drive either to at times bend the rules. This particular article is the lack of retraction is unsettling and unprofessional though.

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07-10-2012, 12:47 PM
  #80
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I am surprised that the Rangers are pursuing legal action against the UofM student newspaper and the writer, but that tells me that Bienkowski & Co. are very confident in their position.

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07-10-2012, 12:55 PM
  #81
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http://www.therecord.com/sports/rang...paper-reporter

Here is the local paper (KW Record) reporting about the legal action against the Daily and the reporter.

If Trouba comes here or not, you can not make accusations without backing them up or retracting said comments.

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07-10-2012, 01:02 PM
  #82
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How enlightening.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why the UofM student newspaper has declined to offer proof and/or issue a retraction, and the editor refuses to speak to anyone about the BS story they chose to print?

The NCAA is just as shady and underhanded as any other organization, including the CHL.

Get over yourself.
Like everything there are varying shades of grey here. Is the OHL or NCAA corrupt? No. Do some teams/schools perhaps bend the rules occassionally in order to attract top players? Probably.

Not sure what a Canadian "company" like the Rangers will be able to accomplish in another jurisdiction other than perhaps some sort of retraction at some point, maybe? Hope it doesn't cost alot.

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07-10-2012, 01:04 PM
  #83
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I am surprised that the Rangers are pursuing legal action against the UofM student newspaper and the writer, but that tells me that Bienkowski & Co. are very confident in their position.

Perfect Storm = The Rangers gets 100% cleared but during the court proceedings it comes to light that source inadvertently mistaken the Knights for the Rangers!!

Of course, I'm fully confident that most if not all CHL teams would be cleared. IMHO, how all this started is these rumours gets circulated year after year till everyone believes it's true.
Then some "un-named sourse" confidently go talk to press thinking they are sprewing 100% fact!

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07-10-2012, 01:15 PM
  #84
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Perfect Storm = The Rangers gets 100% cleared but during the court proceedings it comes to light that source inadvertently mistaken the Knights for the Rangers!!
Couldnt help but chuckle

Its shaping up to be an intersting year. Both squads should be good and again be the front runners for the division.
Now if the Knights can find some $ to lure McCarron and 1 other US kid...... LOL

Good on the Rangers organization for pursuing this. The finger pointing and acqusations have become a yearly thing. Too bad for the NCAA. Its there own rules and shananigans that have hurt them as much as anything the CHL has done.

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07-10-2012, 01:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Like everything there are varying shades of grey here. Is the OHL or NCAA corrupt? No. Do some teams/schools perhaps bend the rules occassionally in order to attract top players? Probably.

Not sure what a Canadian "company" like the Rangers will be able to accomplish in another jurisdiction other than perhaps some sort of retraction at some point, maybe? Hope it doesn't cost alot.
Problem with this, Kitchener has audited reports that go out to the STH (the owners) and can not "hide" $200,000.

Basically, I see it as a PR move by both sides. Michigan can use the accusation as an excuse of why not to chose the CHL. Kitchener does not want to lose out on players due to baseless accusations. This is why I see Steve B and Co. filing the lawsuit.

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07-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #86
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Kitchener has lost a player before because of accusations like this that were baseless as the player did not want to have to deal with the fall out if he came here.

His name is Cam Fowler, heard of him right? He had meetings planned with the Rangers to discuss his reporting to the team until Jeff Jackson came out with unsourced information claiming the Rangers were offering up to $500,000 for him to come to the team. He cancelled those meetings, reentered the draft, never attended Notre Dame and instead went to play for Windsor.

Now we have Sam Carrick bolting Michigan for Plymouth, Last year John Gibson bolting for Kitchener, and now talk that Trouba may or may not and what do we get?

An Article claiming that money is involved. Accusations that the Rangers asked to be either retracted or validated by this past Monday July 9th. Michigan Daily never did and now it's being pursued legally. I hope they have solid first hand proof of this or they'll get owned in court for it.

Not to mention they have added and added to the 'Original' news release to include quotes from the Trouba family which did not arise until AFTER the orignal story hit the fan, IMO in an attempt to add to their credibility as they were being widely accused of amateur journalism for posting a story of the magnitude of allegation with only TWO UNNAMED sources and about 200 words.

Funny how the back tracking begins.....

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07-10-2012, 01:51 PM
  #87
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Now we have Sam Carrick bolting Michigan for Plymouth, Last year John Gibson bolting for Kitchener, and now talk that Trouba may or may not and what do we get?
Just to add fuel to the fire....Jack Campbell the year before bolted from Michigan to Windsor. So I can see the bitterness.

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07-10-2012, 01:55 PM
  #88
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Problem with this, Kitchener has audited reports that go out to the STH (the owners) and can not "hide" $200,000.

Basically, I see it as a PR move by both sides. Michigan can use the accusation as an excuse of why not to chose the CHL. Kitchener does not want to lose out on players due to baseless accusations. This is why I see Steve B and Co. filing the lawsuit.
Trust me a good accountant can "hide" $200k, audited or not audited. Just sayin'

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07-10-2012, 01:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Trust me a good accountant can "hide" $200k, audited or not audited. Just sayin'
And an investigative accountant can "un-hide" it even faster....They exist and their jobs are to find the ways "creative" accountants hide money.

It may get missed in an audit, but anyone with a bit of sense wouldnt open the books in a case like this and just assume an investigative accountant wouldnt look deeper then an auditor.

Just saying.

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07-10-2012, 02:02 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
And an investigative accountant can "un-hide" it even faster....They exist and their jobs are to find the ways "creative" accountants hide money.

It may get missed in an audit, but anyone with a bit of sense wouldnt open the books in a case like this and just assume an investigative accountant wouldnt look deeper then an auditor.

Just saying.
A typical set of financial statements provides a balance sheet, income statement and statement of changes in finacial position.

Without having seen the Ranger's statements, not sure if STH's even get notes with those statemenets. Unless something untoward is suggested at shareholder's meeting (typically why would there be?), an "investigation" as you call it of audited statements is unlikely to not going to happen.

What do the Rangers gross in Revenues in any fiscal year $5M? $200k on that can easily fall into a "Promotions account."

Personally I don't see it happening, but suggesting that because audited statements are provided to STH's is proof enough, is naiive.

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07-10-2012, 02:09 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Trust me a good accountant can "hide" $200k, audited or not audited. Just sayin'
I'm quite confident one can. However, there are a few STH's who would be more than happy to find an anomoly in the financials. $200K would be a noticeable item, even if combined with another entry on the balance sheet. If memory serves correctly (an iffy proposition to be sure! ), the Rangers' total income last year was in the neighbourhood of $4.5 million. A $200K payoff equates to 5%. You'd have to be a very creative accountant to somehow hide 5% and not have it questioned.

The financials are reviewed at the AGM, questions are asked, and entries explained. The entire financial package includes notes, including details on amortized purchases (i.e. updated scoreboard, Aud expansion), sponsorships, education expenses, game day operations and overall hockey operations. These financial statements are also available to STH's in advance of the AGM.

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07-10-2012, 02:13 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'm quite confident one can. However, there are a few STH's who would be more than happy to find an anomoly in the financials. $200K would be a noticeable item, even if combined with another entry on the balance sheet. If memory serves correctly (an iffy proposition to be sure! ), the Rangers' total income last year was in the neighbourhood of $4.5 million. A $200K payoff equates to 5%. You'd have to be a very creative accountant to somehow hide 5% and not have it questioned.
Thanks for the reply! Again, I'm not trying to suggest this happened but just indicating that in my experience simply stating financial's are presented, doesn't mean it could not still happen.

Good luck in getting a retraction, shoddy journalism needs to be eradicated.

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07-10-2012, 02:14 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
A typical set of financial statements provides a balance sheet, income statement and statement of changes in finacial position.

Without having seen the Ranger's statements, not sure if STH's even get notes with those statemenets. Unless something untoward is suggested at shareholder's meeting (typically why would there be?), an "investigation" as you call it of audited statements is unlikely to not going to happen.

What do the Rangers gross in Revenues in any fiscal year $5M? $200k on that can easily fall into a "Promotions account."

Personally I don't see it happening, but suggesting that because audited statements are provided to STH's is proof enough, is naiive.
It wasnt meant as implying the audtied statements are proof enough.

When you looking at how many season ticket holders there are. With the hundreds of different professions each STH have. It would be foolish for an organization to try and put something past.

Let alone when one of the (former?) STH made an attempt in trying to buy or take control of the team recently as well and would have had a hayday with that kind of information. But don't get me started on JC.

Information is public and at the AGM anyone can form a motion to review these things. As well, I dont have the accounting firm handy but its not just one person that does the accounting. That firms reputation would also be on the hook too. Not just a simple hiding the numbers as one would suggest. But like you said and others tend to agree, we dont think its happening anyways.

edit: Just saw CG response. Thanks..you the Girl!!


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Old
07-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
A typical set of financial statements provides a balance sheet, income statement and statement of changes in finacial position.

Without having seen the Ranger's statements, not sure if STH's even get notes with those statemenets. Unless something untoward is suggested at shareholder's meeting (typically why would there be?), an "investigation" as you call it of audited statements is unlikely to not going to happen.

What do the Rangers gross in Revenues in any fiscal year $5M? $200k on that can easily fall into a "Promotions account."

Personally I don't see it happening, but suggesting that because audited statements are provided to STH's is proof enough, is naiive.
An investigation will certainly occur in the event their lawsuit against the Michigan Daily and the writer takes off, in the event the writers sources have any credibility, hence my suggestion that they wouldnt air their dirty laundry if they knew it stank.

You are right, $200,000 can fall into X account quite easily, but how was it spent, wheres the receipt?

The Rangers financial's are simply audited, that is all. I'm suggesting that if this lawsuit turns into anything, and the unnamed sources are proven to be legitiment, you can bet the Rangers will have their financials over the past few season heavily examined at the request of the STH as well as the CHL, not to mention the Government.

Also, I never said audited statements is "Proof enough", I said that audited statements are the opposite, and in any case like the one the Rangers are pursueing, they arent going to offer up their audited statements for further disection by an investigative accountant (I.e. not an auditor) if the sources turn to be legitiment.

Thats my point.

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07-10-2012, 02:18 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Thanks for the reply! Again, I'm not trying to suggest this happened but just indicating that in my experience simply stating financial's are presented, doesn't mean it could not still happen.

Good luck in getting a retraction, shoddy journalism needs to be eradicated.
No problem -- I am not naive enough to believe that this kind of "influence" never happens in the OHL. I do question the $200K number because of the financial reports provided to the STH's. If it were $50K, it would be relatively easy to hide it in the financial statements.

The Rangers are unusual in that there is no owner with other operations and/or deep pockets. Not to say the Rangers are lily white while other teams aren't -- I simply don't know one way or the other.

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07-10-2012, 02:18 PM
  #96
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http://therecord.blogs.com/rangers_r...n-damages.html
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The Kitchener Rangers are seeking $1 million in damages over a story published in a Michigan student newspaper that claimed the club offered to pay a player to suit up for the team.

The defamation suit against The Michigan Daily seeks $500,000 in general damages and $500,000 in punitive damages and was expected to be filed in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in Kitchener Tuesday, according to a team lawyer.

The story, which was published last week by the University of Michigan student newspaper, alleges the Rangers offered defenceman Jacob Trouba $200,000 in place of an education package to play in Kitchener. The team and Trouba family both denied the claim.

Troubaís OHL rights are owned by the Rangers, but the blueliner has committed to the University of Michigan on an athletic scholarship for next season. The 18-year-old was selected ninth overall by the Winnipeg Jets in last monthís NHL draft and is considered one of the top defensive prospects in his age group.

The Rangers formally requested that The Daily retract the story or issue an apology and set a Monday deadline before moving ahead with a lawsuit. As of Tuesday, the story was still on the paperís website. Staff from the Daily said they could not comment when reached earlier this week.

Trouba has never wavered from his desire to play for the Wolverines and expressed his position to prospective NHL teams before the draft. However, if the blueliner inks a deal with the Jets he will forfeit his right to play in the NCAA as the league does not allow pro players.

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07-10-2012, 02:23 PM
  #97
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No problem -- I am not naive enough to believe that this kind of "influence" never happens in the OHL. I do question the $200K number because of the financial reports provided to the STH's. If it were $50K, it would be relatively easy to hide it in the financial statements.

The Rangers are unusual in that there is no owner with other operations and/or deep pockets. Not to say the Rangers are lily white while other teams aren't -- I simply don't know one way or the other.
And this is my stance as well. I'm quick to defend but some are misconstruding my defense of the $200,000 as a sure defense that it doesnt happen.

It is almost know that teams will pay for family travel etc. I just highly doubt there is any kind of actual cash payout, but other forms of incentive such as covered travel expenses to see the kid play, the use of a team vehicle, etc.

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07-11-2012, 12:00 AM
  #98
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Kitchener has lost a player before because of accusations like this that were baseless as the player did not want to have to deal with the fall out if he came here.

His name is Cam Fowler, heard of him right? He had meetings planned with the Rangers to discuss his reporting to the team until Jeff Jackson came out with unsourced information claiming the Rangers were offering up to $500,000 for him to come to the team. He cancelled those meetings, reentered the draft, never attended Notre Dame and instead went to play for Windsor.

..

This isn't really how this all went down. Not totally.

Going into the 07-08 season, the Rangers drafted Fowler in the 1st round. It was common knowledge that Fowler had committed to Notre Dame and the Rangers, knowing this, and understanding that Fowler had committed to the USNTDP for the 07-08 and 08-09 seasons, the odds of him reporting as a 16 year old weren't good anyway considering he wouldn't get a lot of icetime on a veteran Memorial Cup hosting team. His choosing the US U-17 team that year wasn't a big surprise.

Fast forward to the trade deadline in 08. DeBoer wanted Owen Sound's Scott Tregunna bad and the price was two second rounders in the 08 draft. DeBoer only had one so the deal was that DeBoer had to come up with another by the time of the draft. DeBoer was able to make that deal because he knew that if all else failed, he could walk away from the rights to Fowler and by doing so, would get a second round pick as compensation. That's what wound up happening as DeBoer was unable to acquire the second rounder to send to OS in time for the 08 OHL draft. Windsor took Fowler in the 1st round of that draft.

If I remember correctly, and I think I do, it wasn't until Fowler was close to reporting to Windsor or maybe even after it was announced that he was reporting to Windsor did Jeff Jackson kick up a fuss in the media about losing him to the OHL and how he even heard that the Rangers had offered him the big payday while he was still their property. We believed/opined at the time that Jackson brought up the Rangers to soil their reputation as he had a running feud with the Rangers and coach DeBoer going back to when he coached the rival Guelph Storm.

Cam Fowler didn't reenter the draft because unwanted publicity of monetary offers from the Rangers caused him to turn his back on Kitchener. He reenterred the draft because DeBoer had a debt to pay. No way the Rangers release his rights under normal circumstances. Hosting the Memorial Cup isn't normal circumstances. It is commonplace now for US players to live up to NTDP commitments in an effort to not be allegedly blackballed from the US WJC team. Also, as was the case with Jeremy Morin, you can get fast tracked to pro hockey a little quicker id you are NHL drafted before you play in the CHL.

As soon as Windsor drafted him in the 1st round of the 08 draft, I was of the belief that Fowler intended on coming to the OHL from the start but wanted to live up to his NTDP committment. DeBoer probably expected that but was stuck owing OS the 2nd rounder. Windsor knew it too because why else would they burn a 1st rounder on a player who "would never report to the OHL" as far as the Rangers were concerned. Believe me, under different circumstances, DeBoer holds onto Fowler's rights and deals him to the Spits for more than just a 2nd rounder.



The most interesting thing I heard today was the Don Cameron interview on the Jeff Allen show on 570. In talking about this whole Truba situation, Cameron said that John Gibson almost didn't report to the Rangers because of the borderline harassment of the Gibson family by the then Ranger reporter at the time, who Cameron wouldn't name, but who we all know as Jeff Hicks. Cameron's comments led me to believe that this weighed heavily in the demise of Jeff Hicks as Rangers reporter for the Record. Interesting.

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07-11-2012, 04:45 AM
  #99
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Lawsuit will be dropped if Trouba reports to Kitchener.

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07-11-2012, 07:28 AM
  #100
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This isn't really how this all went down. Not totally.

Going into the 07-08 season, the Rangers drafted Fowler in the 1st round. It was common knowledge that Fowler had committed to Notre Dame and the Rangers, knowing this, and understanding that Fowler had committed to the USNTDP for the 07-08 and 08-09 seasons, the odds of him reporting as a 16 year old weren't good anyway considering he wouldn't get a lot of icetime on a veteran Memorial Cup hosting team. His choosing the US U-17 team that year wasn't a big surprise.

Fast forward to the trade deadline in 08. DeBoer wanted Owen Sound's Scott Tregunna bad and the price was two second rounders in the 08 draft. DeBoer only had one so the deal was that DeBoer had to come up with another by the time of the draft. DeBoer was able to make that deal because he knew that if all else failed, he could walk away from the rights to Fowler and by doing so, would get a second round pick as compensation. That's what wound up happening as DeBoer was unable to acquire the second rounder to send to OS in time for the 08 OHL draft. Windsor took Fowler in the 1st round of that draft.

If I remember correctly, and I think I do, it wasn't until Fowler was close to reporting to Windsor or maybe even after it was announced that he was reporting to Windsor did Jeff Jackson kick up a fuss in the media about losing him to the OHL and how he even heard that the Rangers had offered him the big payday while he was still their property. We believed/opined at the time that Jackson brought up the Rangers to soil their reputation as he had a running feud with the Rangers and coach DeBoer going back to when he coached the rival Guelph Storm.

Cam Fowler didn't reenter the draft because unwanted publicity of monetary offers from the Rangers caused him to turn his back on Kitchener. He reenterred the draft because DeBoer had a debt to pay. No way the Rangers release his rights under normal circumstances. Hosting the Memorial Cup isn't normal circumstances. It is commonplace now for US players to live up to NTDP commitments in an effort to not be allegedly blackballed from the US WJC team. Also, as was the case with Jeremy Morin, you can get fast tracked to pro hockey a little quicker id you are NHL drafted before you play in the CHL.

As soon as Windsor drafted him in the 1st round of the 08 draft, I was of the belief that Fowler intended on coming to the OHL from the start but wanted to live up to his NTDP committment. DeBoer probably expected that but was stuck owing OS the 2nd rounder. Windsor knew it too because why else would they burn a 1st rounder on a player who "would never report to the OHL" as far as the Rangers were concerned. Believe me, under different circumstances, DeBoer holds onto Fowler's rights and deals him to the Spits for more than just a 2nd rounder.



The most interesting thing I heard today was the Don Cameron interview on the Jeff Allen show on 570. In talking about this whole Truba situation, Cameron said that John Gibson almost didn't report to the Rangers because of the borderline harassment of the Gibson family by the then Ranger reporter at the time, who Cameron wouldn't name, but who we all know as Jeff Hicks. Cameron's comments led me to believe that this weighed heavily in the demise of Jeff Hicks as Rangers reporter for the Record. Interesting.
Yea I brought up to speed just recently on the entire Jackson saga on the Noof, I understood it differently, so thanks for clarifying all of that.

I guess the underlying point that remains, is this isnt the first time someone has tried to smear **** on the Rangers, and they are tired of it and are smearing right back!

Definitely an interesting take on Hicks demise. I had just assumed it was because he always asked intrusive/untimely questions and was overall, a hack reporter.

At the same time though, if Fowler was committed to coming to Kitchener the 'whole time' why did he always state his intentions of going to Notre Dame, commit to Notre Dame and never report to rookie camp for the Rangers (In which you still retain your NCAA eligibility)? The answer is he didnt. Yes he intended, as he did, live out his committment to the USNDP, but I don't believe for a second he was going to report to Kitchener until later on in that committment.

Also pretty positive DeBoer would have traded many a player away from the team to secure that 2nd rounder BEFORE dropping Cam Fowler back into the draft if all it was about was a second rounder and he was a sure bet to report. To me, the logical reason is it either wasnt a sure bet he was reporting to the OHL, not even close, or there was no way he was reporting to Kitchener, whether it be by his own decision, or influenced by a Mr. Jeff Jackson.

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