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Tobias Enstrom to Colorado?

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Old
07-10-2012, 10:42 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I don't disagree. That's why I didn't think any conditionals would be needed personally.

But Stastny/Enstrom have similar value to us with or without extensions.
I also agree.

Which is why the proposals with the Jets adding conditional 1st or 2nd round picks, and/or Burmistrov to "offset risk" don't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

If there was anything added to offset the 1 year extra that Stastny has over Enstrom, those type of additions are more like C level prospects, or 4th round picks and up IMO. Not assets like 1st or 2nd round picks or Burmistrov.

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07-10-2012, 10:48 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
I think it's highly debatable whether Stastny's the best player in the deal. Stastny's had two straight off years. Enstrom had one off year last year (due to injury). Their values are pretty close and the only significant difference is the time remaining on their contracts.
Actually Staz has only had one off year, unfortunately it was the calendar year 2011 and so spanned from the end of one season through the start of next one. He was near a PPG pace before the wheels fell off two years ago and he started this past season absolutely snakebitten, missing at least a half dozen empty nets himself and having to watch Drunk David Jones, Kevin "I played good" Porter, Chuck "why am I on a scoring line?" Kobascrew and Joakim "why am I in the NHL?" Lindstrom whiff on even more empty nets.


Last edited by cgf: 07-10-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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07-10-2012, 10:59 AM
  #78
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I would just like to thank everyone for keeping this a reasonable and civil discussion. You Jets fans are all right.

If, hypothetically, Colorado was put off by the contract differences, what would they have to add to get another big piece (Burmistrov, Little, etc) coming back. Or:

Stastny is equal to Enstrom. However, since Stastny is locked up another year, Stastny would have more value (I agree in the range of a mid round pick) but Colorado wants something more, like, for example, Burmistrov. Now, that not only compensates for the difference in value between Enstrom and Stastny, but skews the deal in Colorado's favor. What additional piece would appease Winnipeg?

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07-10-2012, 11:04 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ManOnTheMoon View Post
I would just like to thank everyone for keeping this a reasonable and civil discussion. You Jets fans are all right.

If, hypothetically, Colorado was put off by the contract differences, what would they have to add to get another big piece (Burmistrov, Little, etc) coming back. Or:

Stastny is equal to Enstrom. However, since Stastny is locked up another year, Stastny would have more value (I agree in the range of a mid round pick) but Colorado wants something more, like, for example, Burmistrov. Now, that not only compensates for the difference in value between Enstrom and Stastny, but skews the deal in Colorado's favor. What additional piece would appease Winnipeg?
Colorado:
+Stastny
+Tyson Barrie


Winnipeg:
+Enstrom
+Little/Burmistrov


With picks thrown in conditionally. I have no idea if Winnipeg would care about that deal.

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07-10-2012, 11:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ManOnTheMoon View Post
I would just like to thank everyone for keeping this a reasonable and civil discussion. You Jets fans are all right.

If, hypothetically, Colorado was put off by the contract differences, what would they have to add to get another big piece (Burmistrov, Little, etc) coming back. Or:

Stastny is equal to Enstrom. However, since Stastny is locked up another year, Stastny would have more value (I agree in the range of a mid round pick) but Colorado wants something more, like, for example, Burmistrov. Now, that not only compensates for the difference in value between Enstrom and Stastny, but skews the deal in Colorado's favor. What additional piece would appease Winnipeg?
Likely a 2nd pairing LD would be preferable as we are weak on the left side but have Buff and Bogosian on the right to fill top 4 slots.

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07-10-2012, 11:07 AM
  #81
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My thinking is that Staz/Duchene are comparable in value to Enstrom while one of Barrie/Elliott are comparable to Burmistrov. Burmi's a little more proven so the avs probably have to kick in a 2nd or 3rd round pick if extensions are worked out for all of the major pieces. But overall it's a trade of a proven piece and a developing piece for a proven piece and a developing piece at the opposite positions. For both teams the Proven piece heading out plays a position of organizational strength, the Avs swapping one of their 3 stud centers for Burmi's potential, the Jets swapping one of their 3 stud Dmen for Elliott/Barrie's potential.

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07-10-2012, 11:07 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Chronos1337 View Post
Likely a 2nd pairing LD would be preferable as we are weak on the left side but have Buff and Bogosian on the right to fill top 4 slots.
Wilson or Hejda?

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07-10-2012, 11:40 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by FjordToBoard View Post
Colorado:
+Stastny
+Tyson Barrie


Winnipeg:
+Enstrom
+Little/Burmistrov


With picks thrown in conditionally. I have no idea if Winnipeg would care about that deal.
That's better than the previous deals in that the value is close but I don't really care for it. Even Enstrom for Stastny straight up isn't necessarily something I think the Jets should do unless Enstrom is kicking and screaming to get out ASAP - they need top-pairing defense more than centers. They have a lot of depth on defense, sure, but not of the caliber to replace Enstrom. They have plenty of serviceable second-line caliber centers to make due.

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07-10-2012, 11:47 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
That's better than the previous deals in that the value is close but I don't really care for it. Even Enstrom for Stastny straight up isn't necessarily something I think the Jets should do unless Enstrom is kicking and screaming to get out ASAP - they need top-pairing defense more than centers. They have a lot of depth on defense, sure, but not of the caliber to replace Enstrom. They have plenty of serviceable second-line caliber centers to make due.
I think most of the Enstrom trade proposals come from the assumption that they've tried to get an extension done with him and he's made it clear he intends to test Free Agency. Otherwise of course you just re-sign him, pair him with Bogo and have an absolutely beastly top pairing. While hoping burmi develops to become that #1 center you need, or that someone wants to trade you one for Little/Jokinen and Buff.

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07-10-2012, 11:55 AM
  #85
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Stastny would be a pretty solid player to add, you can never have enough good center men I think. The Jets are hurting less with Jokinen but man would having another one make this team look better.

Realistically though, without the Jets having anyone to replace Enstrom, I fear it would be a sideways move for us in that we still need what Enstrom can bring to the table healthy.

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07-10-2012, 11:59 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Stastny would be a pretty solid player to add, you can never have enough good center men I think. The Jets are hurting less with Jokinen but man would having another one make this team look better.

Realistically though, without the Jets having anyone to replace Enstrom, I fear it would be a sideways move for us in that we still need what Enstrom can bring to the table healthy.
I think it would be a bit lateral for both teams. The Avalanche would get that top pairing guy they need but still would be without a strong scoring winger and would go down one good center. I still like the idea of the deal though.

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07-10-2012, 12:14 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I also agree.

Which is why the proposals with the Jets adding conditional 1st or 2nd round picks, and/or Burmistrov to "offset risk" don't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

If there was anything added to offset the 1 year extra that Stastny has over Enstrom, those type of additions are more like C level prospects, or 4th round picks and up IMO. Not assets like 1st or 2nd round picks or Burmistrov.
Actually, Burmistrov/Little are added because we'd need someone to replace Stastny now that we did not re-sign McClement. It puts us in an awkward situation where we have no clearcut #3 center for our team and we're not looking to use Mitchell there.

And Elliott/Barrie are added as replacements for Enstrom, both of which are young offensive defenders in our system that we hold in very high regard, both having seen significant NHL action last season and/or being up with the team for a majority of it. It's why I personally felt the Jets would want Elliott back, and why we'd ask for Burmistrov or Little in exchange for him.

So basically, 2 years of Stastny as #1 center + our top PMD prospect (a guy that has the potential to put up Enstrom-like numbers) for your #1 defender (which we assume will re-sign) + your young center in Burmistrov or center/winger in Little.

That's the basis of any deal I see to be honest.

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07-10-2012, 12:50 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Actually, Burmistrov/Little are added because we'd need someone to replace Stastny now that we did not re-sign McClement. It puts us in an awkward situation where we have no clearcut #3 center for our team and we're not looking to use Mitchell there.

And Elliott/Barrie are added as replacements for Enstrom, both of which are young offensive defenders in our system that we hold in very high regard, both having seen significant NHL action last season and/or being up with the team for a majority of it. It's why I personally felt the Jets would want Elliott back, and why we'd ask for Burmistrov or Little in exchange for him.

So basically, 2 years of Stastny as #1 center + our top PMD prospect (a guy that has the potential to put up Enstrom-like numbers) for your #1 defender (which we assume will re-sign) + your young center in Burmistrov or center/winger in Little.

That's the basis of any deal I see to be honest.
I hear ya, I just think losing Burmi hurts us more than getting Elliot helps us.

We don't have a tonne of depth in terms of prospects right now, but we have more young defensemen than we do forwards. And while Elliot would probably be close to the top of the heap on D with Trouba (and would be more ready), IMO losing Burmi creates more of a long term problem.

It's not horrible though, it would really come down (at least on our side), to how highly the Jets value Elliot, as well as getting Stastny signed. IOW, If they didn't feel like Elliot was worth losing Burmi for, or if they didn't feel like they could get Stastny signed and would rather trade Enstrom in a multiple prospect type deal.


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07-10-2012, 12:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Actually, Burmistrov/Little are added because we'd need someone to replace Stastny now that we did not re-sign McClement. It puts us in an awkward situation where we have no clearcut #3 center for our team and we're not looking to use Mitchell there.

And Elliott/Barrie are added as replacements for Enstrom, both of which are young offensive defenders in our system that we hold in very high regard, both having seen significant NHL action last season and/or being up with the team for a majority of it. It's why I personally felt the Jets would want Elliott back, and why we'd ask for Burmistrov or Little in exchange for him.

So basically, 2 years of Stastny as #1 center + our top PMD prospect (a guy that has the potential to put up Enstrom-like numbers) for your #1 defender (which we assume will re-sign) + your young center in Burmistrov or center/winger in Little.

That's the basis of any deal I see to be honest.
We're not really hurting for PMD guys in Winnipeg, though. There's a couple of them in the system that could do the job in a pinch. No Enstrom, of course, but there's no saying that Barrie or Elliot would replace Enstrom either.

What Winnipeg needs are wingers, especially on the right hand side.

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07-10-2012, 12:56 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
We're not really hurting for PMD guys in Winnipeg, though. There's a couple of them in the system that could do the job in a pinch. No Enstrom, of course, but there's no saying that Barrie or Elliot would replace Enstrom either.

What Winnipeg needs are wingers, especially on the right hand side.
We don't though if we get Stastny, because we'd move Little to the right side and have a 1-2 of Wheeler and Little.

I'm not too thrilled about trading Burmi though. Could we convince the Avs to pcik up Antropov or Cormier instead?

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07-10-2012, 01:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Chronos1337 View Post
We don't though if we get Stastny, because we'd move Little to the right side and have a 1-2 of Wheeler and Little.

I'm not too thrilled about trading Burmi though. Could we convince the Avs to pcik up Antropov or Cormier instead?
I'd only bite on this trade if we got Little and Enstrom

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07-10-2012, 01:54 PM
  #92
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I'd only bite on this trade if we got Little and Enstrom
The problem though is that the difference between Stastny and Little is MUCH closer than the difference between Enstrom and Elliot.

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07-10-2012, 02:28 PM
  #93
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The problem though is that the difference between Stastny and Little is MUCH closer than the difference between Enstrom and Elliot.
Really..?

Wow that sounds familiar.

Just like when Leafs fans complain that the difference between Bozak and Stastny isn't enough.

NO I am not saying it's the same type of comment but it's close, I think you know what Stastny is capable of if used as a #1 center and given a winger like Kane.

The last time Stastny had a winger of that caliber he put up 79 points and I think you know that.

Anyone getting Stastny would be paying for the potential that he still has (And has shown in 2012 with a .805 PPG% and 9pts in 8GP at the WC) to put up those numbers again with strong wingers. Otherwise we won't be getting enough value back to move him.

Totally get that a center is not as much of a need for the Jets now but that does not change anything on our side.

There is also a big difference in getting Elliott or Barrie now.. And picking up a lot less when he only has a quarter of a season left on his deal at the deadline. Or even losing him for nothing. The lack of contract that Enstrom has pulls his value closer to Elliott or Barrie than you seem to want to admit. Straight up the most I would give up for Enstrom is Barrie + 1st if it was done now.

The way you get Stastny back for Enstrom is by adding a forward. The way we offset that is by adding a ready now defense prospect and then working out some conditional picks going both ways.


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07-10-2012, 02:51 PM
  #94
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The problem though is that the difference between Stastny and Little is MUCH closer than the difference between Enstrom and Elliot.
The difference between Elliott/Little, you mean? Which wouldn't be as different if Elliott were a year further into his development imo. Risk comes in all trades, Avs take some risk in Enstrom being on a one year deal, Jets take some risk in Elliott maturing according to plan.

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07-17-2012, 08:54 AM
  #95
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I would just forget Burmistrov. I don't see Burmi moving. Then again I would love to see Enström and Little in Colorado. How do Jets fans see this situation? Stastny and... I'm not a huge fan of Jones either so you could move him in a right kind of deal. What do you see as the price of Enström+Little?

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07-17-2012, 09:09 AM
  #96
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I would just forget Burmistrov. I don't see Burmi moving. Then again I would love to see Enström and Little in Colorado. How do Jets fans see this situation? Stastny and... I'm not a huge fan of Jones either so you could move him in a right kind of deal. What do you see as the price of Enström+Little?
Jones won't get traded, because he just signed a contract extension as an upcoming UFA.

If Jets want a package similar to the one Wild got for Burns I'd do the trade.

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07-17-2012, 09:11 AM
  #97
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I would just forget Burmistrov. I don't see Burmi moving. Then again I would love to see Enström and Little in Colorado. How do Jets fans see this situation? Stastny and... I'm not a huge fan of Jones either so you could move him in a right kind of deal. What do you see as the price of Enström+Little?
Regardless of whether somebody is a fan, or not a fan, of David Jones, the fact is he just signed a 4 year, $16 million contract a month before becoming an unrestricted free agent.

It is more than obvious he will not be moved in the near future. The Avs do not operate that way.

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07-17-2012, 10:09 AM
  #98
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Really..?

Wow that sounds familiar.

Just like when Leafs fans complain that the difference between Bozak and Stastny isn't enough.

NO I am not saying it's the same type of comment but it's close, I think you know what Stastny is capable of if used as a #1 center and given a winger like Kane.

The last time Stastny had a winger of that caliber he put up 79 points and I think you know that.

Anyone getting Stastny would be paying for the potential that he still has (And has shown in 2012 with a .805 PPG% and 9pts in 8GP at the WC) to put up those numbers again with strong wingers. Otherwise we won't be getting enough value back to move him.

Totally get that a center is not as much of a need for the Jets now but that does not change anything on our side.

There is also a big difference in getting Elliott or Barrie now.. And picking up a lot less when he only has a quarter of a season left on his deal at the deadline. Or even losing him for nothing. The lack of contract that Enstrom has pulls his value closer to Elliott or Barrie than you seem to want to admit. Straight up the most I would give up for Enstrom is Barrie + 1st if it was done now.

The way you get Stastny back for Enstrom is by adding a forward. The way we offset that is by adding a ready now defense prospect and then working out some conditional picks going both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The difference between Elliott/Little, you mean? Which wouldn't be as different if Elliott were a year further into his development imo. Risk comes in all trades, Avs take some risk in Enstrom being on a one year deal, Jets take some risk in Elliott maturing according to plan.
Nope, I meant exactly what I said.

The difference between Little and Stastny is a lot closer than the difference between Enstrom and Elliot.

Stastny has only outscored Little by 7 and 9 points in the last 2 years. If someone wants to use Stastny's past to paint him as a 70+ point centre, then let's call Little a 30+ goal scorer because he's done that before.

Enstrom's contract situation does bring him closer to Elliot, but even saying that, the difference between Enstrom and Elliot is more than Little and Stastny.

If Winnipeg needs to add a forward to Enstrom to get Stastny, then they could add a Cormier, Klingberg, etc.

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07-17-2012, 10:36 AM
  #99
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Nope, I meant exactly what I said.

The difference between Little and Stastny is a lot closer than the difference between Enstrom and Elliot.

Stastny has only outscored Little by 7 and 9 points in the last 2 years. If someone wants to use Stastny's past to paint him as a 70+ point centre, then let's call Little a 30+ goal scorer because he's done that before.

Enstrom's contract situation does bring him closer to Elliot, but even saying that, the difference between Enstrom and Elliot is more than Little and Stastny.

If Winnipeg needs to add a forward to Enstrom to get Stastny, then they could add a Cormier, Klingberg, etc.
If you don't value Stastny that highly, then that's your perogative. I've already been through this routine with people who think he's a 55 point center. The difference between Stastny and Little is substantial, not quite the difference between Elliott/Enstrom, but far closer than you're making it out to be.

Avs would not be interested in one of your B prospects, we've got enough of our own.

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07-17-2012, 10:42 AM
  #100
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Nope, I meant exactly what I said.

The difference between Little and Stastny is a lot closer than the difference between Enstrom and Elliot.

Stastny has only outscored Little by 7 and 9 points in the last 2 years. If someone wants to use Stastny's past to paint him as a 70+ point centre, then let's call Little a 30+ goal scorer because he's done that before.

Enstrom's contract situation does bring him closer to Elliot, but even saying that, the difference between Enstrom and Elliot is more than Little and Stastny.

If Winnipeg needs to add a forward to Enstrom to get Stastny, then they could add a Cormier, Klingberg, etc.
Flaw in your logic is that Little has scored 30 goals ONCE. Stastny has put up points per game numbers for 4 consecutive seasons before his last 2.

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