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07-10-2012, 02:18 PM
  #276
Barbara Underhill
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Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
You forgot defensive goals as well, to be fair.
True, even then it's going to be awfully close to last years regular season production. Which wasn't the big issue, it was the inability to put teams away in the playoffs or score more than 2 goals most nights. Besides I gave Pyatt and Boyle the max there.

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07-10-2012, 02:19 PM
  #277
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Why would Dallas trade Morrow now? They havent made the playoffs in a long time, and they added three veterans in about a week. Just becuase Morrow isnt a 30-30 guy anymore doesnt mean he cant help them.

Besides, he's a UFA who'd fetch a decent return at the deadline. I thought the Stars were trying to make the playoffs with their small window. It's smarter to take a whirl with Morrow and unload him at the deadline. If Gaustad costs a 1st, so will Morrow. Maybe more.

That is, unless there are significant health concerns that we dont know about and they feel like he's useless.

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07-10-2012, 02:21 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Being somewhat generous there and it's 199 goals... Well off this years production, and I don't see many from Rupp/Asham/Halpern.


No it's not about a name. I honestly don't think this team will reach the ECF again just because we got there this year. That's silly. You always look to improve and offense was our biggest issue in the PO's we couldn't finish teams off. Heaven forbid we actually played a team like the Pens, Flyers, or Bruins. We faced some of the weaker competition in the first two rounds.
Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent because they improved somewhat, Philly, have an awful defense. If you're scared or worried about PIT and PHI then you didnt watch those two teams play at the end of the season or in the playoffs. Their D was non existent. Fleury's confidence was non existent. Bryz was himself.

I'm not saying to not want to add offense. But i am saying not to go deal off multiple roster players for one player who i really think is overrated and isnt the only solution. And even if you cant find that offense now, this team will compete and be there at the deadline. I guarantee names like Iginla and MSL will be out there if CGY and TBL are not in the playoff hunt.

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07-10-2012, 02:24 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
True, even then it's going to be awfully close to last years regular season production. Which wasn't the big issue, it was the inability to put teams away in the playoffs or score more than 2 goals most nights. Besides I gave Pyatt and Boyle the max there.
Oh yeah, totally. As of now, we have pretty much the same team as last year. Estimations will produce pretty much the same number of goals. Which isn't a bad thing, of course, we won the east with this team, but we want to do even better. Which is why we're considering Nash for the right price.

(And the whole making a point thing isn't really directed at you)

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07-10-2012, 02:24 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here is my honest attempt:

Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Krieder
Gaborik
Hagelin
Richards
Stepan

All players that are going to be close, at, or over 20 goals.

Boyle
Pyatt

Two players that can be reasonably counted on to score 8 - 12 goals.


From my point of view that is balanced scoring.

My question: Why do we need to off load roster players that got us an ECF, give up solid prospects, give up 1st or second round picks for a player like Nash?

Is he really what puts us over the top....or are we better off with out him?
Realistically speaking this is what these players would get IF HEALTHY.

Dubinsky (15)
Callahan (30)
Anisimov (15)
Krieder (18)
Gaborik (30) (missing 2 months)
Hagelin (15)
Richards (25)
Stepan (20)
Boyle (12)
Pyatt (10)
Rupp (5)
Halpern (2)
Haley (2)
AHL Call-Up/Newbury (1) *plays 15-20 gms in Gabby's absence*

That may be a decent forward core, but what do you do if someone like Cally goes down with an injury early in the year and then suddenly you're looking at a potential first line of Hagelin-Richards-Kreider for the majority of the first two months.

It's always good to have depth. Bringing in Morrow or Doan can't hurt. Even if they under perform a bit it's better than giving some scrub like Newbury NHL minutes that they can't handle.

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Old
07-10-2012, 02:25 PM
  #281
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent because they improved somewhat, Philly, have an awful defense. If you're scared or worried about PIT and PHI then you didnt watch those two teams play at the end of the season or in the playoffs. Their D was non existent. Fleury's confidence was non existent. Bryz was himself.

I'm not saying to not want to add offense. But i am saying not to go deal off multiple roster players for one player who i really think is overrated and isnt the only solution. And even if you cant find that offense now, this team will compete and be there at the deadline. I guarantee names like Iginla and MSL will be out there if CGY and TBL are not in the playoff hunt.
I'm not scared of those teams, but to just assume they will struggle again next year isn't the best way to go about things.

Iginla isn't going anywhere he'll retire a Flame, and I think TB improved enough this summer they won't be selling at the deadline and highly doubt MSL would be available.

I'm not saying you have to gut the team, that's probably the most overused counter argument on here. But giving up two of Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Hagelin will not sink this team. If it does we're certainly nowhere near as good as we believe we are. If you basically replace those two roster players production with one player and have someone step into the 3rd line and produce similar to those two it's just added gravy.

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Old
07-10-2012, 02:34 PM
  #282
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Does anyone else think a shortened season might benefit us? I hope it doesn't happen but still

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07-10-2012, 02:36 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I'm not scared of those teams, but to just assume they will struggle again next year isn't the best way to go about things.

Iginla isn't going anywhere he'll retire a Flame, and I think TB improved enough this summer they won't be selling at the deadline and highly doubt MSL would be available.

I'm not saying you have to gut the team, that's probably the most overused counter argument on here. But giving up two of Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Hagelin will not sink this team. If it does we're certainly nowhere near as good as we believe we are. If you basically replace those two roster players production with one player and have someone step into the 3rd line and produce similar to those two it's just added gravy.
I'd love for it to be just dubi, AA + + for Nash but that doesnt seem to be enough for Howson or Murray

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07-10-2012, 02:36 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o View Post
Does anyone else think a shortened season might benefit us? I hope it doesn't happen but still
Absolutely. Gives us fresher legs for the playoffs. All those games of blocking shots, grinding it out will be less of a toll imo

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07-10-2012, 02:43 PM
  #285
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I'd love for it to be just dubi, AA + + for Nash but that doesnt seem to be enough for Howson or Murray
Yeah, and I agree. If it's a similar package that happens to land us Nash I'll be happy. I don't want to decimate the lineup either. I just think that a player like Nash would help more than hurt this team.

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07-10-2012, 02:50 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o View Post
Does anyone else think a shortened season might benefit us? I hope it doesn't happen but still
I agree. Specially with Gabby out until december january.

Also, with the nature our team plays with, less games would mean less injuries.

But if it is sort of like the NBA one this season, how it is so condensed, I would try to avoid that.

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07-10-2012, 02:50 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Being somewhat generous there and it's 199 goals...
Not at all. I was trying to be conservative.

Give me the math where adding Nash significantly up grades our offense over where you say I was being generous?

Then lets try and factor in the intangibles. Which I know is hard to do, but no one can argue the chemistry in the current group.

And for those of us worried about injuries, how do we know Nash is not injured at some point. Injuries happen to big name players too.

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07-10-2012, 02:53 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Not at all. I was trying to be conservative.

Give me the math where adding Nash significantly up grades our offense over where you say I was being generous?

Then lets try and factor in the intangibles. Which I know is hard to do, but no one can argue the chemistry in the current group.

And for those of us worried about injuries, how do we know Nash is not injured at some point. Injuries happen to big name players too.
He promised.

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07-10-2012, 02:56 PM
  #289
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Have any of our free agent signings done interviews? seems a little weird.

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07-10-2012, 02:57 PM
  #290
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I know yesterday we were debating the Nash and assets going the other way. Another factor that has me hesitant for Nash is that the team, for lack of better thoughts, doesn't seem there yet. I am so proud and want to be in the ECFs again. I would not be too thrilled if we were giving up Hagelin or Stepan in a trade. I'd feel better if the players in waiting were a bit further along. For instance, Del Zotto has been mentioned in rumored trades and he seems to be the D out of our current top 4 (Staal, Girardi, McD, MDZ) that most would be willing to give. I just wish Tim Erixon was a little further along. Should we trade Hagelin, I would begrudgingly if Jasper Fast was ready. If Oscar Lindberg or Christian Thomas were ready, I'd be more inclined to make deals. That is also a big reason for my hesitation/

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07-10-2012, 02:58 PM
  #291
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Not at all. I was trying to be conservative.

Give me the math where adding Nash significantly up grades our offense over where you say I was being generous?

Then lets try and factor in the intangibles. Which I know is hard to do, but no one can argue the chemistry in the current group.

And for those of us worried about injuries, how do we know Nash is not injured at some point. Injuries happen to big name players too.
I said I was being generous because I gave Boyle and Pyatt 12 goals a piece. I'm not going to try factor in intangibles, that is an argument that would never be settled.

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07-10-2012, 03:00 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Not at all. I was trying to be conservative.

Give me the math where adding Nash significantly up grades our offense over where you say I was being generous?

Then lets try and factor in the intangibles. Which I know is hard to do, but no one can argue the chemistry in the current group.

And for those of us worried about injuries, how do we know Nash is not injured at some point. Injuries happen to big name players too.
Nash injured? Come on..

Rick Nash' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

Rick Nash counted to infinity - twice.

Rick Nash does not hunt because the word hunting infers the probability of failure. Rick Nash goes killing.

If you can see Rick Nash, he can see you. If you can't see Rick Nash you may be only seconds away from death.

Rick Nash sold his soul to the devil for his rugged good looks and unparalleled martial arts ability. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, Chuck roundhouse kicked the devil in the face and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month.

When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Rick Nash.

Rick Nash built a time machine and went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. As Oswald shot, Rick Nash met all three bullets with his beard, deflecting them. JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement.

Rick Nash has already been to Mars; that's why there are no signs of life there.

They once made a Rick Nash toilet paper, but it wouldn't take ***** from anybody.

A blind man once stepped on Rick Nash' shoe. Chuck replied, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Rick Nash!" The mere mention of his name cured this man blindness. Sadly the first, last, and only thing this man ever saw, was a fatal roundhouse delivered by Rick Nash.

**Stolen from the Chuck Norris jokes - hence why "Chuck" appears.

Oh and Stugots, please do not take this post literally. How was the beach, yesterday, Pizza?

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07-10-2012, 03:00 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Why would Dallas trade Morrow now? They havent made the playoffs in a long time, and they added three veterans in about a week. Just becuase Morrow isnt a 30-30 guy anymore doesnt mean he cant help them.

Besides, he's a UFA who'd fetch a decent return at the deadline. I thought the Stars were trying to make the playoffs with their small window. It's smarter to take a whirl with Morrow and unload him at the deadline. If Gaustad costs a 1st, so will Morrow. Maybe more.

That is, unless there are significant health concerns that we dont know about and they feel like he's useless.
I can't see Dallas moving Morrow at this point. Besides, at this stage in his career, his durability and production is a bit of an unknown. Either way, it's probably in Dallas' best interest to wait and see how the season goes. He'll retain value as a deadline player, if that becomes the better option. In fact I don't see much of a difference in return between now and the deadline, because of the previously mentioned unknowns.

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07-10-2012, 03:01 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o View Post
Does anyone else think a shortened season might benefit us? I hope it doesn't happen but still
the less games gabby misses helps us for sure

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07-10-2012, 03:01 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I agree. Yeah our identity is a hard working grind it out defense first team. But we need to compliment that with creativity and offensive punch.
I completely agree.

Further, people compare output of like 2-3 players with what we could get in return for said players in a trade (for example Nash). That's not what it is about.

We as a team can be shut down if we are played perfectly. An elite offensive player cannot be shut down, he is a force "basically" every shift.

That's what we miss more than anything else. We don't even lack scoring over the course of a season. But we lack offense when for example playing NJD in the POs for sure. And with offense I am including just getting the puck up ice and putting the team we play against on their heels. We definitely lack that.

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07-10-2012, 03:07 PM
  #296
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Market Crash on Nash

As the market crowds with players like Doan, Morrow, Bobby Ryan, it makes Columbus GM Scott Howson's quest to hit a home run with Rick Nash much less likely.

The one word that no one uses about Nash -- that they do about Doan and Morrow -- is leadership. It's impossible to see the leader in a captain that has never led the Blue Jackets anywhere.

We know -- the roster has been weak. It may not be Nash's fault, but it is his problem. Couple that with the price Howson is asking and most contenders are saying "not worth it."

Having this many options in the marketplace is killing Howson, and pushing him towards what could be his biggest bluff: That Nash could start the season in Columbus.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...ure_nhl_teams/

As Kenny Rogers sang

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.



Don't worry Scotty,Slats will give you a job when Columbus fires you.

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07-10-2012, 03:08 PM
  #297
Barbara Underhill
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I completely agree.

Further, people compare output of like 2-3 players with what we could get in return for said players in a trade (for example Nash). That's not what it is about.

We as a team can be shut down if we are played perfectly. An elite offensive player cannot be shut down, he is a force "basically" every shift.

That's what we miss more than anything else. We don't even lack scoring over the course of a season. But we lack offense when for example playing NJD in the POs for sure. And with offense I am including just getting the puck up ice and putting the team we play against on their heels. We definitely lack that.
Exactly, we have talent I'm not knocking the team there. But our talent isn't scary outside of say Gaborik and Richards, and if Richards doesn't have someone who can put the puck in the net on his line you just shut him down and the entire line becomes ineffective.

Now add a player like Rick Nash, or Bobby Ryan, or whoever I'm not getting hung up on names those are just two available. With the players we have that gives you a nice 1-2 punch, a tough line to shut down of say Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik and an equally tough line of Nash - Richards - Callahan.

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Old
07-10-2012, 03:10 PM
  #298
Pizza
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I said I was being generous because I gave Boyle and Pyatt 12 goals a piece. I'm not going to try factor in intangibles, that is an argument that would never be settled.
Then forget the intangibles and stick to the math.

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07-10-2012, 03:11 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
The idea is to give yourself the best chance of winning the Stanley Cup. Getting to the ECF was super-duper, but why does that mean you don't look to add to the roster?

And to me, scoring depth is a reason you do trade 2 roster players for one better one.
but wouldn't that technically be Columbus adding Scoring Depth, since they are adding two players that will likely add more points total?

If you could run with just two lines a game, I would say adding Nash is adding depth, but Torts likes to run 3

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07-10-2012, 03:12 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...ure_nhl_teams/

As Kenny Rogers sang

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.



Don't worry Scotty,Slats will give you a job when Columbus fires you.
You also have to be careful when judging leadership. Guys who are great leaders are suddently worthless when a team doesn't perform up to expectations. And guys who are deemed to lack "true leadership" suddenly start winning championships and they've magically become great leaders.

I can remember reading preview guides 20 years with people questioning the leadership of guys like Yzerman and Sakic, who "never lead anyone to anything." Perception can be a great tool at times, but it can also be a great detriment.

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