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Rangers sign Jeff Halpern (1 year @ 700K)

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Old
07-10-2012, 03:40 PM
  #301
nyr5186
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With Gaborik likely out for the 1st quarter of the season (assuming it starts on time; let's hope!), there will be an opportunity for a young forward to at least get a cup of tea. And with Tortorella's tendency to juggle lines, I'm sure if somebody really impresses they will get a good opportunity to show their worth. I believe Torts will always play the guys that give him the best chance to win, young or old.

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07-10-2012, 04:04 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
I need to pay attention... seriously thats where you are going with this? Torts MATCHES lines, usually putting Mcdonagh-Girardi against teams 1st line as a Priority, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think Boyle goes against teams top lines. There are times when he plays Richards line against teams top lines (few and far between) but to insinuate that I haven't watched hockey in 10-15 years makes me wonder if you even watch these games or just read the score online. When the season starts maybe you should pay attention to which line starts the game, half the time it is the Boyle line to go against teams top lines.

You can stop talking about Jan Erixon, just because that's my user name does not mean I am advocating Boyle cover Crosby every shift. The days of the true defensive forward are over, but teams still have 3rd line checking lines, they just happen to be able to provide offense as well. Teams try to get the advantage line wise anyway they can, usually when a team puts out its fourth line the opposing team will try and counter as quickly as possible with their first line unless they are looking to spark the team with a fight putting their own 4th line out there.

How is Boyle a specialist? He is a solid 2-way player, nothing flashy and for all the anisimov drooling on this board he has never broken 20 goals (something Boyle did), they have about the same amount of goals over their careers (Boyle played about 30 more games, never getting top 6 minutes like Anisimov) and Boyle can actually win a faceoff and kill a penalty.
I just about get divorced every year due to the amount of Hockey I watch. On average I watch close to 150 games not including the playoffs. Not just Rangers game (majority of though)

Torts matches D against forwards. In certain situations (defensive zone faceoffs, yes he may match here and there, but not as a general rule.

Not drooling over Anisimov, I just recognize that hes a superior player and better suited for a balanced 3rd line where we need to generate offence while being solid defensively.

Boyle is a specialist in the sense that he's not a good offensive producer. He has no vision, he has no hands. He's not going to make the players around him even slightly better.

His forte is his defensive ability, most notably on the PK.

A limited offensive player that is above average defensively = PK specialist

A limited defensive player that is above average offensively = PP specialist (think Zuccs)

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07-10-2012, 04:05 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by nyr5186 View Post
With Gaborik likely out for the 1st quarter of the season (assuming it starts on time; let's hope!), there will be an opportunity for a young forward to at least get a cup of tea. And with Tortorella's tendency to juggle lines, I'm sure if somebody really impresses they will get a good opportunity to show their worth. I believe Torts will always play the guys that give him the best chance to win, young or old.
Agreed, I don't view this as 1998 and Brent Fedyk blocking a more deserving Stefan Chernkesi from a roster spot. If guys like Miller are ready for a spot, they'll get one. I think the Rangers and Torts have a solid track record where this approach is concerned.

The roster will evolve as the season progresses, as will the number of rookies on the roster. It's not entirely impossible to see as many as four or five rookies play significant roles on this team throughout the season.

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07-10-2012, 04:32 PM
  #304
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God did this team **** up with Cherneski. He'd of been a hell of a player. Reminded me of what Dallas ended up with in Morrow. Not quite as offensively skilled, but very good.

****.

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07-10-2012, 04:40 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I just about get divorced every year due to the amount of Hockey I watch. On average I watch close to 150 games not including the playoffs. Not just Rangers game (majority of though)

Torts matches D against forwards. In certain situations (defensive zone faceoffs, yes he may match here and there, but not as a general rule.

Not drooling over Anisimov, I just recognize that hes a superior player and better suited for a balanced 3rd line where we need to generate offence while being solid defensively.

Boyle is a specialist in the sense that he's not a good offensive producer. He has no vision, he has no hands. He's not going to make the players around him even slightly better.

His forte is his defensive ability, most notably on the PK.

A limited offensive player that is above average defensively = PK specialist

A limited defensive player that is above average offensively = PP specialist (think Zuccs)
How is Anisimov a superior player? Did you even read the post before you responded? They have about the same amount of goals and points, while one player gets 3rd line and PK minutes, while the other gets top 6 minutes and PP time?

I clearly have to do this for you
Faceoffs: Boyle> Anisimov
Defensive awareness: Boyle> Anisimov
Physicality: Boyle>Anisimov
Offensive ability: Anisimov>Boyle
Skating: Anisimov>Boyle
Hands: Wash, Anisimov may appear to have better hands but the numbers are so similar I cannot give Anisimov the edge as he has never even broken 20 goals, while Boyle has with far less skilled linemates.

You do realize that Anisimov had one solid season in Hartford with 37 goals, 81 points and has never looked close to that player at the NHL level. Playing him on the 3rd line with poorer quality linemates and less minutes will result in his production dropping even lower.

According to you Boyle is a specialist, what does that make Anisimov? A top 6 player who doesn't even break 40 points while playing close to an entire season? Making Anisimov the 3rd line center will be the death of his career. Look no further than Dubinsky, the more he struggles the further down the depth chart he fell. He wouldn't even get a sniff at the top 2 lines this coming season if Gaborik was healthy, now most of the fanbase can't wait to get rid of our best player from the 2010-11 season. Even if had a deep lineup that could score goals from the 3rd line, Torts uses the third line as a defensive line. This season was probably the most he has rolled 4 lines since he has been here, but it is well known he likes to roll 3 lines and while he primarily puts the top defensive pair against teams top units, he matches the forward lines as well.

Anisimov should remain in the top 6 (especially if we want production) if he makes it to the start of the season, Boyle should be the third line center, and Halpern will be on the fourth line.

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07-10-2012, 04:45 PM
  #306
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I really don't get why anyone is against Boyle as the 3rd line center.

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07-10-2012, 04:49 PM
  #307
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Awful signing. So much for our fourth line being forechecking demons a la NJ.

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07-10-2012, 04:53 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexus Dog View Post
Awful signing. So much for our fourth line being forechecking demons a la NJ.

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07-10-2012, 04:57 PM
  #309
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One more point on Halpern:

I think, anytime you can add a former captain (Capitals) in the NHL for 700k that can still do what he does (win faceoffs, kill penalties, etc), it's a win/win.

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07-10-2012, 04:59 PM
  #310
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This offseason has been catastrophic. Still can't see NYR rolling four lines. All I've seen are goons and over the hill players.

Dear god please let a young player with forchecking ability from the Whale stand out in camp. Better yet make it two.

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07-10-2012, 05:01 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexus Dog View Post
This offseason has been catastrophic. Still can't see NYR rolling four lines. All I've seen are goons and over the hill players.

Dear god please let a young player with forchecking ability from the Whale stand out in camp. Better yet make it two.

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07-10-2012, 05:02 PM
  #312
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The bandwagon is now dissolving.

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07-10-2012, 05:05 PM
  #313
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Really thats all you can do? Make faces? I'm serious. This fourth line is shaping up to be worse than last year's.

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07-10-2012, 05:08 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Lexus Dog View Post
Really thats all you can do? Make faces? I'm serious. This fourth line is shaping up to be worse than last year's.
Please explain...

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07-10-2012, 05:12 PM
  #315
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Explain? Can you really see any combination of Asham-Rupp-Haley-Halpern-Newbury on the fourth line having a Carter-Bernier-S. Gionta effect?

I'm the highest on Haley but come on...there is no comparison. At least keep Deveaux and/or Mitchell who both had good advanced stats.

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07-10-2012, 05:12 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
How is Anisimov a superior player? Did you even read the post before you responded? They have about the same amount of goals and points, while one player gets 3rd line and PK minutes, while the other gets top 6 minutes and PP time?

I clearly have to do this for you
Faceoffs: Boyle> Anisimov Concede
Defensive awareness: Boyle> Anisimov Barely and debatable
Physicality: Boyle>Anisimov Concede
Offensive ability: Anisimov>Boyle Significantly
Skating: Anisimov>Boyle Agreed
Hands: Wash, Anisimov may appear to have better hands but the numbers are so similar I cannot give Anisimov the edge as he has never even broken 20 goals, while Boyle has with far less skilled linemates.

Wash? Sorry, but that's just silly. AA is a better passer and he has a better shot. Breaking 20 goals is nice, but it's not necessarily what I want from my 3rd line center. If I got that, great, but I want my centers to be able to pass the puck well and AA is head and shoulders better than Boyle in that regards.

You do realize that Anisimov had one solid season in Hartford with 37 goals, 81 points and has never looked close to that player at the NHL level. Playing him on the 3rd line with poorer quality linemates and less minutes will result in his production dropping even lower.

AA also had a very solid 2nd season in NY with 18 goals and 26 assists for a sophmore. 44 points isn't bad and if we are upgrading the top 6, logic dictates that a talented player will slide back to the 3rd line. Someone such as Hagelin. Even if we added no one, our 3rd line would be Dubinsky - AA - Hagelin. A much better option than putting Boyle in the middle there. Otherwise there would be no one capable of making plays in that sceanrio.

According to you Boyle is a specialist, what does that make Anisimov? A top 6 player who doesn't even break 40 points while playing close to an entire season? Playing out of position, but you can ignore that if you want. Making Anisimov the 3rd line center will be the death of his career. Look no further than Dubinsky, the more he struggles the further down the depth chart he fell. He wouldn't even get a sniff at the top 2 lines this coming season if Gaborik was healthy, now most of the fanbase can't wait to get rid of our best player from the 2010-11 season. Even if had a deep lineup that could score goals from the 3rd line, Torts uses the third line as a defensive line. This season was probably the most he has rolled 4 lines since he has been here, but it is well known he likes to roll 3 lines and while he primarily puts the top defensive pair against teams top units, he matches the forward lines as well.

Anisimov should remain in the top 6 (especially if we want production) if he makes it to the start of the season, Boyle should be the third line center, and Halpern will be on the fourth line.
Why would making AA the 3rd line center be the death of his career? Because you have some antiquated mindset of what a 3rd line role is supposed to be?

I want production from all three lines. I'm not getting that with Boyle centering Dubinsky and Hagelin. Not a playmaker amongst them. Sure they will be good defensively, but at the cost of being a danger to score goals? No thanks.

The drop off defensively between Boyle and AA is not enough in my opinion to justify putting someone that is clearly inferior offensively in that spot.

You said it your self. Boyle has played 30 more games and has 30 less points. AA is the better offensive player and a good defensive player. We get production and defensive awareness from a 3rd line which makes the Rangers a better and deeper team to play against

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07-10-2012, 05:15 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I really don't get why anyone is against Boyle as the 3rd line center.
I think the majority sees him as a really good 4th line center and good Pker. Personally, I think that 20 goal season was a fluke and he'll top out around 10 a year. So you're looking at a 20-25 pt. center for your 3rd line, and on a cup winning team you'd like to see more pts. than that out of your 3rd line. Not sure what the Kings 3rd line center did this year, but our fan base expects more than 25 points.

Now, realistically he's been the 3rd line center the last 2 years. Torts loves him and will play him regardless of wheter he puts up points or not. That causes the frustrations of the fans with Boyle.

Is there room to grow with Boyle? Of course, but I think the majority believes he has topped out. And not for nothing but we should all know by now this team will make a few moves still, so theres a chance where maybe he is the 4th line center and Halpern is an extra. Who knows.

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07-10-2012, 05:37 PM
  #318
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Boyle is far better than AA defensively. Not debatable. Why the **** else does AA get no PK time?

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07-10-2012, 05:41 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Boyle is far better than AA defensively. Not debatable. Why the **** else does AA get no PK time?
Because penalty killing and 5 vs 5 defensive ability are not entirely synonymous.

With a PK, you're not worried about getting offense, most of the time. There is more ice to cover as a forward but you're not going from behind the net at your end to behind the net at the other end most of the time.

Its not the same thing. Jed Ortmeyer was a great PK guy but nothing special defensively at even strength. Dominic Moore was very much the opposite for us.

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07-10-2012, 05:42 PM
  #320
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Sorry. AA being better defensively is a complete myth.

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07-10-2012, 05:42 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Boyle is far better than AA defensively. Not debatable. Why the **** else does AA get no PK time?
Because ES defense and PK are completely different. THAT'S not debatable.

Boyle is a fantastic PKer. He's nothing to write home about ES on defense, though.

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07-10-2012, 05:49 PM
  #322
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Because ES defense and PK are completely different. THAT'S not debatable.

Boyle is a fantastic PKer. He's nothing to write home about ES on defense, though.
That's only because standard mail is being phased out.

I've sent several emails home about Boyle's even strength defensive play.

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07-10-2012, 05:49 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Lexus Dog View Post
This fourth line is shaping up to be worse than last year's.
You mean the one that had Bickel and Eminger playing wing in the playoffs? I cant envision it getting much worse than that. Halpern and Asham for Prust and Fedotenko is probably a net loss - Ill give you that. But Taylor Pyatt was a very good signing and gives us increased depth to last year.

Calling this offseason a "disaster" is quite over the top when the other teams in the division have gotten weaker.

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07-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #324
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Boyle is far better than AA defensively. Not debatable. Why the **** else does AA get no PK time?
I disagree with this very much.

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07-10-2012, 05:58 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Because penalty killing and 5 vs 5 defensive ability are not entirely synonymous.

With a PK, you're not worried about getting offense, most of the time. There is more ice to cover as a forward but you're not going from behind the net at your end to behind the net at the other end most of the time.

Its not the same thing. Jed Ortmeyer was a great PK guy but nothing special defensively at even strength. Dominic Moore was very much the opposite for us.
And because Boyle has a better FO% (though he seems to lose every defensive zone FO when it counts).

IDK, I find it laughable that some think that Boyle is a better hockey player than Anisimov. Janerixon, Anisimov is at least as good in his defensive awareness (as you put it) as Boyle. Hands are wash? Lol. Where is a general hockey sense comparision? I don't know why such a bias against Anisimov (actually I do) but he's at least a twinner for 2nd / 3rd line roles who could be successful for a long stretches of time playing on the 1st line. Boyle? We are debating if he's better suited on the 4th or 3rd lines. He'd be so out of place anywhere near 1st or 2nd lines it's not even funny.

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