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Better 2012-2013 - Couturier vs. B. Schenn

View Poll Results: Who do you believe will have a better season?
B. Schenn 51 59.30%
Couturier 35 40.70%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:55 AM
  #76
King Forsberg
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I'm just glad we have both of them.

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:58 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
It's an interesting suggestion. I don't see why he couldn't do well in that role. It's usually easier going from center to wing than vice versa. I really like this idea actually. I think he has a lot of game once the puck is in the offensive zone, and he is a good skater...but he's not overly fast and he's not overly slick with the puck on his stick, but he has a good shot. I really would like to see Read with Hartnell on Giroux's wings for a few games in a row this season. I think that combination has a chance to be electric.


I could also see Voracek playing center on a line before his careers done. He has all the things you usually look for in a center (well, all the things I do anyway). He has some size and good defensive ability, the speed to cover 200 feet, is a good puck carrier and distributor. More of a center's skill set than a winger's IMO. Not that he's bad in corners, but the guy doesn't shoot the puck well enough to be a great winger right now. That may change though.
without even considering the logjam at center, jakes elite speed and willingness to back-check make him the perfect center IMO
i've got high hopes for him...like marian hossa hopes.

I'm also in the boat of Giroux-Voracek would be epic. maybe:

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Briere
Simmonds-Talbot-Read
Fedotenko-???-Wellwood

(you could easily swap briere to C and move cooter to the 3rd...talbot to the 4th)

that'd be a nasty top 6. and the 3rd line is made up of awesome roleplayers...we need a 4th line C though.

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Old
07-11-2012, 02:16 AM
  #78
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without even considering the logjam at center, jakes elite speed and willingness to back-check make him the perfect center IMO
i've got high hopes for him...like marian hossa hopes.

I'm also in the boat of Giroux-Voracek would be epic. maybe:

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Briere
Simmonds-Talbot-Read
Fedotenko-???-Wellwood

(you could easily swap briere to C and move cooter to the 3rd...talbot to the 4th)

that'd be a nasty top 6. and the 3rd line is made up of awesome roleplayers...we need a 4th line C though.
While the idea with Voracek at center is intriguing, I think if there is a list of center-eligible future players in our top nine, he's at the bottom regardless of his potential down the middle. I think he makes a versatile natural winger that we lack.

I would consider Read down the middle before Voracek if only for the reason that his game patterns more similarly to that of the elder version of Briere we currently have, where his effectiveness can be pretty dynamic inside as opposed to out.

Schenn obviously gets a nod down the middle. Laughton and Cousins will undoubtedly throw their name in the hat in upcoming years should they not be moved.

Then if you consider Briere on the way out in a few years down the line if not out to week even sooner, that leaves us with two centers:

xxxxx - Giroux - xxxxx
xxxxx - Couturier - xxxxx
xxxxx - xxxxx - xxxxx

Now, do you imagine that...

xxxxx - Giroux - Schenn
Voracek - Couturier - Read
Simmonds - Laughton/Cousins - Wellwood/etc

Once Hartnell and Briere's contracts are over?

Or do you see it more like this longterm...

xxxxx - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Read
Laughton - Couturier - Cousins/Wellwood/etc

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07-11-2012, 02:31 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
While the idea with Voracek at center is intriguing, I think if there is a list of center-eligible future players in our top nine, he's at the bottom regardless of his potential down the middle. I think he makes a versatile natural winger that we lack.

I would consider Read down the middle before Voracek if only for the reason that his game patterns more similarly to that of the elder version of Briere we currently have, where his effectiveness can be pretty dynamic inside as opposed to out.

Schenn obviously gets a nod down the middle. Laughton and Cousins will undoubtedly throw their name in the hat in upcoming years should they not be moved.

Then if you consider Briere on the way out in a few years down the line if not out to week even sooner, that leaves us with two centers:

xxxxx - Giroux - xxxxx
xxxxx - Couturier - xxxxx
xxxxx - xxxxx - xxxxx

Now, do you imagine that...

xxxxx - Giroux - Schenn
Voracek - Couturier - Read
Simmonds - Laughton/Cousins - Wellwood/etc

Once Hartnell and Briere's contracts are over?

Or do you see it more like this longterm...

xxxxx - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Read
Laughton - Couturier - Cousins/Wellwood/etc
that looks really good to me.

I still think Schenn-Giroux-Voracek has potential (since G and Schenn are buddied up, and voracek is going to be our best winger)

so when you think:
Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
xxxxxxx-Cooter-xxxxxxx
Simmonds-Laughton-Cousins (I think cousins will move to wing)

we've got a bright future for our top 9, without even considering hartnell/briere/read/akeson

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07-11-2012, 02:41 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I would consider Read down the middle before Voracek if only for the reason that his game patterns more similarly to that of the elder version of Briere we currently have, where his effectiveness can be pretty dynamic inside as opposed to out.

Schenn obviously gets a nod down the middle. Laughton and Cousins will undoubtedly throw their name in the hat in upcoming years should they not be moved.
I think Couturier is going to be too good to get stuck in the 3C position. And Giroux is Giroux. So Schenn moving to wing seems most likely, but who knows, I wouldn't be surprised if in two years Wellwood was the Tyler Kennedy to Couturier's Jordan Staal.


As for Read at center, huh? Game like Briere? Matt Read is better when he plays the game more like Marion Gaborik than Danny Briere IMO, i.e. with out the puck. Let him get to where he needs to be, get the puck, move it or shoot it, and start moving off the puck again. I don't see him as being most effective as a Briere type player at all. I really think he would work well as the trigger man on a line with a great distributor/creator like Giroux, and a big wing like Hartnell who gets in front and goes into corners. He has the speed to chase dumps nicely which the Jagr-Hartnell tandem of wings was in need of agaisnt some trapping schemes last year. I really wanna see him on G's wing. I think Schenn could work there too, as stated, but I don't think he's quite ready for first line minutes yet.

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Old
07-11-2012, 06:47 AM
  #81
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For some reason, I don't see Schenn being here in a few years. I have no idea why, he just doesn't strike me as a long-term Flyer.

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07-11-2012, 09:41 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
As for Read at center, huh? Game like Briere? Matt Read is better when he plays the game more like Marion Gaborik than Danny Briere IMO, i.e. with out the puck. Let him get to where he needs to be, get the puck, move it or shoot it, and start moving off the puck again. I don't see him as being most effective as a Briere type player at all. I really think he would work well as the trigger man on a line with a great distributor/creator like Giroux, and a big wing like Hartnell who gets in front and goes into corners. He has the speed to chase dumps nicely which the Jagr-Hartnell tandem of wings was in need of agaisnt some trapping schemes last year. I really wanna see him on G's wing. I think Schenn could work there too, as stated, but I don't think he's quite ready for first line minutes yet.
One thing I've noticed more and more with Briere starting to slow down in recent years is that his puck possession isn't what it used to be. Hence why I mentioned the "older version" of Briere.

And if you'll notice, Briere did work well on Giroux's wing. It's very possible that Read would be a good fit.

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07-11-2012, 10:52 AM
  #83
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I always see everyone putting Schenn on the wing in their armchair coach line combos, but I thought he is a natural center? Didn't he play a lot of center in the playoffs? I think I like him better in the middle, but not sure how the team sees him.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Briere - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Couturier - xxx
Fedotenko - Talbot - xxx

Thats the natural progression I see for next season, but again don't know what position the franchise has pegged for Schenn. Briere has never been as effective on the wing, but nowadays it might work to take the physical load off of him.

As for who will be better, I'm going to guess and say Schenn scores 20 goals this year and 50+ points. Really its a toss-up, I love them both and hence don't want to lose either. Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle is pretty formidable.

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07-11-2012, 11:04 AM
  #84
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Schenn is going to be a Centre no doubt. He's too good on the Draw to play on the wing for anyone. Thats what is going to keep him down the middle.

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07-11-2012, 11:11 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
For some reason, I don't see Schenn being here in a few years. I have no idea why, he just doesn't strike me as a long-term Flyer.
Because...? His style of play certainly fits the prototypical Flyers mold, and he was THE main piece Homer wanted and got from the Kings in the Richards trade. I see Brayden being here for a long time. He, Couturier, and Giroux are the three cornerstone pieces at forward.

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07-11-2012, 11:15 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Clowe - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Read
Laughton - Couturier - Wellwood
Talbot- Cousins- Sestito
This team. Do it.

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07-11-2012, 11:49 AM
  #87
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i'd swap out briere for simmonds. Simmer/hartnell was just too much for the opposing teams' defense last year. They offer an insane screen together.
Yeah, I can't see them breaking up the 1st pp unit to start the season. We were 6th overall last year I think, which is pretty solid.

The second unit is a bit more interesting. Brière will be there, but who else? How will we set it up now that Carle (and JvR and Jagr) isn't there anymore?

Read-Brière-Schenn
Meszaros-Coburn

perhaps? Maybe Gus will replace Carle, but he'll have to make the team first. I wouldn't mind seeing Couturier getting some pp time, but I also would prefer two defenders on the 2nd unit (especially since they all lack some puck handling skills after Timonen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockjaw333 View Post
I always see everyone putting Schenn on the wing in their armchair coach line combos, but I thought he is a natural center? Didn't he play a lot of center in the playoffs? I think I like him better in the middle, but not sure how the team sees him.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Briere - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Couturier - xxx
Fedotenko - Talbot - xxx

Thats the natural progression I see for next season, but again don't know what position the franchise has pegged for Schenn. Briere has never been as effective on the wing, but nowadays it might work to take the physical load off of him.

As for who will be better, I'm going to guess and say Schenn scores 20 goals this year and 50+ points. Really its a toss-up, I love them both and hence don't want to lose either. Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle is pretty formidable.
When Schenn played with Brière he took the defensive responsibilities of a center quite often. I think there's a good chance they'll try something like that to start off the next season at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Schenn is going to be a Centre no doubt. He's too good on the Draw to play on the wing for anyone. Thats what is going to keep him down the middle.
Taking the faceoff is a very small part of what makes you a center. Schenn also came in at 46.1% last year. Not terrible for a rookie, but not exactly stellar either.

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07-11-2012, 12:00 PM
  #88
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Taking the faceoff is a very small part of what makes you a center. Schenn also came in at 46.1% last year. Not terrible for a rookie, but not exactly stellar either.
That was coming off a shoulder injury, with no Powerplay face-off as a Rookie.

He's going to be a beast on the draw next year. He was untouchable during the pre-season.

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07-11-2012, 12:22 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
That was coming off a shoulder injury, with no Powerplay face-off as a Rookie.

He's going to be a beast on the draw next year. He was untouchable during the pre-season.
Didn't he have like 90-100% in the winter classic? I forget the number, but remember it being ridiculous.

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07-11-2012, 01:53 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockjaw333 View Post
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Briere - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Couturier - xxx
Fedotenko - Talbot - xxx
Those lineups seem to be pretty consistent. The only difference that I would think would be to switch Briere and Simmonds on the second line and for the third line, Read plays the right wing, Talbot plays the left wing and the fourth line would be Fedotenko - Holmstrom - Wellwood with Sestito and Rinaldo battling it out for the extra forward spot. So, it would look something like this:

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Briere
Talbot - Couturier - Read
Fedotenko - Holmstrom - Wellwood
Sestito, Rinaldo

That's actually a pretty decent forward group. As well, if Laviolette decides that Couturier is going to man the second line, you can swap him and Schenn. Either way, the forward group should be even better next year.

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07-11-2012, 02:14 PM
  #91
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Sean Couturier will be playing center on the second PP unit by the end of the season.

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07-11-2012, 02:54 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
One thing I've noticed more and more with Briere starting to slow down in recent years is that his puck possession isn't what it used to be. Hence why I mentioned the "older version" of Briere.

And if you'll notice, Briere did work well on Giroux's wing. It's very possible that Read would be a good fit.
Right, so why is the conclusion that Read would make a good center because his game has similarities to Briere's, who used to play center, but as he's getting older makes a better wing. I think Read fits nicely as a winger and Briere is becoming less of a center as time goes on.

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07-11-2012, 02:56 PM
  #93
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I wonder how a Hartnell-Giroux-Briere line would work?

I had been wondering what Briere would look like on Couturier's wing (though I'm not sure how practical that is at this time), but now that Jagr is gone that makes more sense.

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07-11-2012, 03:26 PM
  #94
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Sean Couturier will be playing center on the second PP unit by the end of the season.
He'll be used on the first power play.

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07-11-2012, 03:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I wonder how a Hartnell-Giroux-Briere line would work?

I had been wondering what Briere would look like on Couturier's wing (though I'm not sure how practical that is at this time), but now that Jagr is gone that makes more sense.
I like the idea of briere and couturier together. Sean definitely trusts Danny boy.

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07-11-2012, 03:37 PM
  #96
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He'll be used on the first power play.
Incredibly doubtful this season. He'll be too heavily relied upon on the top PK unit I suspect and he probably can't bare the burden physically of playing the 20+ minutes a game it would take to get top unit time on all 3 units.

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07-11-2012, 03:59 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I like the idea of briere and couturier together. Sean definitely trusts Danny boy.
Couturier will be on a line with some defensive responsibilities. So, I doubt Danny could be on line with him. He needs to be hidden in offensive zone draws and given as little defensive responsibility as possible.

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07-11-2012, 05:00 PM
  #98
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All I know is, hope to see Couturier and Read start on the same line this. They had a crazy combo going. They were doing well together in the beginning of last season, Lavy switched the lines abit (Couts went to 4th line) and they barely played together the rest of the year. They would have the odd game here and there (I remember that time when Read and Couturier were on the 4th line and started to score again)

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07-11-2012, 05:06 PM
  #99
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For the faceoff stats:

Schenn had: 46.1%

Couturier had: 47.0%

I compiled a list of centres a while ago since NHL entry to their current faceoff standard... the minimum increase was approximately a 3% increase, the best was about 12%, and the average about 7% improvement. I would post the whole thing, but I deleted the spreadsheet I made it on as my PC has enough on it with three years of Law essays! It is on the forum on a Couturier thread at some point!

If you don't believe it go and look at guys like Bergeron, Toews, the Staals, Richards etc, etc, get a list of any ten decent centres in the NHL and average the increase since their debut season to their average over the last 3 years. The average will be at least 5% increase.

At a minimum they will both be 51% in a few years... and watching Coots in the Q, he was a monster on the dot, my bet is he will be 54%+ through his career, also due to almost as every rookie who in the last 10 years over 47% faceoffs in their rookie year is now approx 53-55%.

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07-11-2012, 05:29 PM
  #100
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[QUOTE=tuckrr;52392029]links or it didnt happen! If that's true i may change my vote to cooter.
BobbyClarke Fan16 does not BS. Take it to the bank.

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