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Pierre Gauthier named Director of Personnel of the Chicago Black Hawks

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:46 AM
  #76
Mike8
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Last place in the East. (You left that one out)

Edit.........this thread has brought out all of the Gauthier fans from the woodwork to defend the useless hockey mind that is Pierre.

Look for Bollig to be on the trading block soon only to be replaced by Darche in a blockbuster trade.
Gauthier was not good in Montreal. There is no doubt about that. The 'fanboys' are making two assertions, however:

1) Gauthier is still a professional, and far more of a professional hockey manager than anyone on this forum. As such, claiming he possesses a useless hockey mind as a casual fan on a hockey forum is, well, peculiar;

2) Not everything Gauthier did was awful.

In other words, the people you call 'fanboys' have balanced, thoughtful approaches rather than a reactionary dismissal of a professional who is obviously respected to some degree in hockey circles. Those reactionary posters are left bewildered by Gauthier's hiring in Chicago, and think the Blackhawks either "didn't know any better" (than posters on a Montreal forum?) or "are screwed" going forward. Of course, if they were to sit back and think a little deeper about this, they'd likely come to the same conclusions that the balanced, thoughtful responses in this thread have stated.

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07-11-2012, 04:55 AM
  #77
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meh....

just further reinforces the reality that some seem completely unwilling to accept.

NHL, like many organizations, is far from a meritocracy. Who you know is more important than how well you do your job.

Gauthier's biggest asset is that he's been around for a long time. Makes no difference that he has had mediocre or worse results in every stop, he has relationships that ensure he'll continue to find work.


I'd be pissed if I was a Hawks fan, but as a Habs fan it can only be a good thing that he got another job so quickly... worse other organizations are, the better for us.
We have our own version in Mr. Therrien. Recycled. Reused. Repurposed.
This is the way of the NHL.

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07-11-2012, 05:00 AM
  #78
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PG was the captain of the habs and well the ship crashed into clearly marked rocks and sank to the bottom of the league.

So If I understand this correctly. some people on this post would hire that Italian cruse ship captain that sank his ship for their own new cruse ship.

I wonder what the insurance company would say about this.
Don't hire this guy, your ships premium will be 1 million per year.
Hire this guy, your ships premium will be 1 billion per year.

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07-11-2012, 06:17 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
the reason you are astonished is because you know nothing about pro hockey compared to gauthier.dont get me wrong i was happy when he got fired but he is a smart hockey man and he did alot of good for our team.you really think stan bowman is a blind idiot ??people on here need to give they re heads a shake if they think they are anywhere near as knowledgable as pierre gauthier.
PG knows hockey but he made so many questionable decisions in a short amount of time that he can no longer be trusted. Also, he should not be allowed to be GM ever again - he doesn't have the leadership or the personality to do so. He's too much of an introvert.

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07-11-2012, 06:48 AM
  #80
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Good for him? The guy is barely human, why would you want to wish him good things? Claude Lapointe was telling a story that when Goat was with the Nordiques and CL was trying to make camp. Claude had just being injured and Goat walked to him and basically laughed at him and said he would never make it in the NHL.
takes more to me then a few hockey /work story to degrade someone to not being human.

i will wish you good things also the day Nords are back and you abandon ship; same principle.

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07-11-2012, 06:54 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
We have our own version in Mr. Therrien. Recycled. Reused. Repurposed.
This is the way of the NHL.
Yet a lot of people here were hoping for Hartley or Crawford and didn't want a "green" coach. Which is understandable.

Gauthier was not very good at being a GM. It doesn't mean he's a bad hockey guy. Some may see him as a failure through and through, but as an employer, I can see the qualities Bowman saw in Gauthier. The guy made his way up the ranks, has been around in GMs offices for decades, has occupied jobs at all levels... He has a lot of experience. In a smaller role, maybe he'll do great.

You can't always hire new people that have zero experience whenever someone is fired. That's not how it works in the NHL, that's not how it works in "real life". Look at our coaching staff, our GM, and it's the same all over the league: there's plenty of guys that are rather new to front offices. Of course, they've played hockey. But that's the nature of the game, of the job.

Therrien hasn't coached for very long in the NHL. He's less recycled than a lot of other coaches. He has experience. He's been waiting his turn for a while, so you can't really say he's part of some boy's club.

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07-11-2012, 06:55 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
PG was the captain of the habs and well the ship crashed into clearly marked rocks and sank to the bottom of the league.

So If I understand this correctly. some people on this post would hire that Italian cruse ship captain that sank his ship for their own new cruse ship.

I wonder what the insurance company would say about this.
Don't hire this guy, your ships premium will be 1 million per year.
Hire this guy, your ships premium will be 1 billion per year.
They didn't hire him as captain, they hired him to clean the deck.

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07-11-2012, 07:19 AM
  #83
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Didn't the Sharks hire John Ferguson Jr. as some scout after his crap time in Toronto too?

Gauthier took bad decisions last year, but before that it really wasn't that bad.
I mean, he opted to give a chance to youngsters last year. Fans in Mtl view it as a failure, but it wasn't a bad thing for the kids.
He re-signed Markov which was a no brainer, but then got screwed by him getting reinjured, fans in mtl still pin this on him.

Not that Gauthier did a terrific job, but it really isn't as bad as some like to paint.
Fans are over critical here.

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07-11-2012, 07:22 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
dude he works in the nhl.whether its gm,scout ,director of player personnel etc.,,,,,it dont matter.chumps like me and you can only dream of working in the bigs.pierre gauthier works in the NHL.posters on HF boards do not.actually posters on HF boards are nowhere near capable.yet many on here seem to think they are capable.
A demotion is never a good thing whether you're in the NHL or working at McDonald's.

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07-11-2012, 07:24 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
anyway, wether he did good or bad, it's kinda funny to see him in Chicago considering how many peeps in here said the guy was so bad he'd never find a job in the NHL again.
A GM job. He will never get one again.

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07-11-2012, 07:43 AM
  #86
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When people think about how fair or not it is to lose your job whether you did a good or bad job, hockey is just not about being fair. The 1 guy that did REALLY a much better job with what he had in hand was Martin and to this day, nobody hired him. While the 2 has-been have been hired.......Hockey isn't about being fair.

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07-11-2012, 07:58 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not that Gauthier did a terrific job, but it really isn't as bad as some like to paint. Fans are over critical here.
You do not have confirmation of that based on the job he's now doing. If he'd be that great, he'd have a GM job in no time. Yet, I am still shocked that a guy who treated his players the way he did, still has that kind of job....So we'll see about a GM job in the future though nothing surprises me anymore in a world of "who you know and not what you know".....

Gauthier wasn't as bad....maybe not. But last year, was probably one of the worst year as far as perception of the Habs and I believe that this team suffers from Gauthier's last season on the ice and off the ice. Gauthier's work itself might not be awful, yet, his persona and way of dealing with people and his philosophy is clearly responsible for people to paint a more awful time that he actually had but that's not our fault.

Point is it's still unbelievable to keep hearing to this day that Gainey and Gauthier finally were okay after all. 'Cause hey, the took a team at the bottom and made it a respectable one. While obviously most people not taking into account that André Savard had already started the work. That at the time, we didn't have the money to work with like that the Gainey-Gauthier era benefitted from. And that they succesfully took a team at the bottom yet to make it a 3rd round team ONCE, and then succesfully ended up a bottom 3 team, something even Houle was never able to do. Overly critical? How's so? Gainey was coming up with tremendous credentials, 1 Cup in the management, an ex-Habs hero that was suppose to be all that. Same with Gauthier who was coming with tons of experience. Yet, this team was able to go from a bad one to an average one. Great. So we end up making the playoffs most of the years...sign that this management wasn't too bad after all. Yet, let say we end up not making the playoffs this year and the year after and again end up with a top 5 pick on each draft.....but then it translate into becoming a force in the NHl for the next 8 years to come.....who will then be known as a great management? The one that succesfully made us reach the playoffs to lose in the 1st or in the 2nd round with class? Or the ones that in a 10-year period while not making the playoffs 2 times, will end up on the top of the league for the next 8 with maybe 1 or 2 cups in bank? Making the playoffs is a goal for the losers. Being on top of the league whether in the regular season or in the playoffs is a goal for a team like the Montreal Canadiens. Winning is about the only thing left to convince players to play here. Not just making the playoffs.

I'm sorry but you do not have the quality head scout that we have, with the results that he has, and not be a better team after all those years. I do mention in the other thread that we might have more quantity than quality, yet, we've also had some quality that we let go or lacked in the development camp. That's the management's fault. Nobody else.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 07-11-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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07-11-2012, 08:18 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post

I'm sorry but you do not have the quality head scout that we have, with the results that he has, and not be a better team after all those years. I do mention in the other thread that we might have more quantity than quality, yet, we've also had some quality that we let go or lacked in the development camp. That's the management's fault. Nobody else.
WS,

You forget that Gauthier had help. During his tenure with us, Gauthier had Gainey either as GM or adviser.

Maybe together those two were......uh....let's be polite and say.....were not efficient. Perhaps apart from each other, they'll be a little more efficient. Well, I hope for Dallas & Chicago.

I think those two in their separate clubs will be just one voice among many and the others will drown out that one voice whenever either one dreams up another Ribeiro, Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque, Sergei trade.

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07-11-2012, 09:10 AM
  #89
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*sigh*

First off, I'm no PG fan boy. His asset management was poor - dating all the way back to when he was the head of pro scouting and told Bob that Niinimaa was an acceptable return for Ribeiro. His panic threshold was worse - at the end he was a veritable Red Queen, wandering the halls of the phone booth looking for the heads he could sacrifice to retain his job.

But...

Lets give the man some credit. He has been in the sport quite awhile, and while knowing people is half the battle - it is only half. There are a great many names who have been exiled from the ranks of hockey executives and staff never to return because they did a terrible job at it. If PG was as bad as we believe him to be I assure you Stan Bowman would not have hired him. And, properly insulated, I believe PG (or anyone, really) can have a positive effect on any organization - sports-related or otherwise. The key is finding the right fit. The GM's office was bad for PG. He lacks certain skills required to function in that role. But depending on what the role of Director of Player Personnel really translates into in Chicago, and how susceptible Stan Bowman is to him whispering in his ear (my guess - not susceptible at all, because Daddy is probably doing the same on the other ear and Daddy's voice is much louder), he might just thrive.

Of course I hope not. I hope the first thing he does is convince Stan that Scott Gomez is still a great player and that the Blackhawks need a guy like him, no matter the cost. All the same Pierre deserves a polite tip of the hat to congratulate him on finding a new job. Nothing more, mind you, but not venom either.

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07-11-2012, 09:17 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
the reason you are astonished is because you know nothing about pro hockey compared to gauthier.dont get me wrong i was happy when he got fired but he is a smart hockey man and he did alot of good for our team.you really think stan bowman is a blind idiot ??people on here need to give they re heads a shake if they think they are anywhere near as knowledgable as pierre gauthier.
I think you need to give your head a shake, can't believe there is anybody who would post what you just did, you must consider yourself a smart hockey guy

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07-11-2012, 09:26 AM
  #91
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Gauthier wasn't terrible, I just think many recognized he wasn't leading us anywhere. The idea is to improve and build on success. We regressed every year towards our goal. 3rd round, 1st round, no playoffs.

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07-11-2012, 09:26 AM
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What goes around comes around. Interesting that the Blackhawks assign a value to PG that was absent from this forum.

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07-11-2012, 09:44 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You do not have confirmation of that based on the job he's now doing. If he'd be that great, he'd have a GM job in no time. Yet, I am still shocked that a guy who treated his players the way he did, still has that kind of job....So we'll see about a GM job in the future though nothing surprises me anymore in a world of "who you know and not what you know".....

Gauthier wasn't as bad....maybe not. But last year, was probably one of the worst year as far as perception of the Habs and I believe that this team suffers from Gauthier's last season on the ice and off the ice. Gauthier's work itself might not be awful, yet, his persona and way of dealing with people and his philosophy is clearly responsible for people to paint a more awful time that he actually had but that's not our fault.

Point is it's still unbelievable to keep hearing to this day that Gainey and Gauthier finally were okay after all. 'Cause hey, the took a team at the bottom and made it a respectable one. While obviously most people not taking into account that André Savard had already started the work. That at the time, we didn't have the money to work with like that the Gainey-Gauthier era benefitted from. And that they succesfully took a team at the bottom yet to make it a 3rd round team ONCE, and then succesfully ended up a bottom 3 team, something even Houle was never able to do. Overly critical? How's so? Gainey was coming up with tremendous credentials, 1 Cup in the management, an ex-Habs hero that was suppose to be all that. Same with Gauthier who was coming with tons of experience. Yet, this team was able to go from a bad one to an average one. Great. So we end up making the playoffs most of the years...sign that this management wasn't too bad after all. Yet, let say we end up not making the playoffs this year and the year after and again end up with a top 5 pick on each draft.....but then it translate into becoming a force in the NHl for the next 8 years to come.....who will then be known as a great management? The one that succesfully made us reach the playoffs to lose in the 1st or in the 2nd round with class? Or the ones that in a 10-year period while not making the playoffs 2 times, will end up on the top of the league for the next 8 with maybe 1 or 2 cups in bank? Making the playoffs is a goal for the losers. Being on top of the league whether in the regular season or in the playoffs is a goal for a team like the Montreal Canadiens. Winning is about the only thing left to convince players to play here. Not just making the playoffs.

I'm sorry but you do not have the quality head scout that we have, with the results that he has, and not be a better team after all those years. I do mention in the other thread that we might have more quantity than quality, yet, we've also had some quality that we let go or lacked in the development camp. That's the management's fault. Nobody else.

Point I was making is that Gauthier wasn't as bad as some say. People speak of him as if he was the worst GM ever, in the world, all industry combined. Like really, the hate is huge.
His persona seemed very weird, and his way of doing things was highly criticized. Gauthier was highly criticized for running a tight ship where he needed to oversee everything. Meanwhile, Lou in NJ, who was compared to a Mob Godfather about how he runs things as well, gets praised.

That essentially, us, fans, really don't know much of anything when talking of those guys. We see a very small part of how these guys work, and hear rumors/speculations/reports from ''reporters'' we often criticize for their lack of professionalism and poor journalism and just eat it up.

Did Gauthier do a good job before last year? Maybe not good, but pretty decent. People like to dismiss it as an excuse, and we often hear that every team has to deal with them, but injuries were a major factor over these past seasons. It's not something that should just be dismissed. He did a good job bringing in reinforcements over the years. It didn't work out with Kaberle last year, but he did move.
So, it's tough to know, but he didn't do a horrible job. Last year, I agree, he lost it with his decision making. It was a bad year.

But as you bring up Savard, we can bring up Gauthier/Gainey for Bergevin. PK, MaxPac, DD, Diaz, Emelin, Price, the picks Gauthier grabbed, etc, he's getting a solid group of prospect with some pretty good veterans..

As for Martin, I agree, I think he did a commendable job given what he had and his injury situation. But he's still being paid by the club now, and I'm assuming he'd lose that if he were to agree on a new position elsewhere. Maybe he also isn't interested in getting back into it now.

I just want to make it clear I'm not defending Gauthier, he deserved to be fired after last season. But his overall tenure here was not as bad as people like to make it seem.

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Old
07-11-2012, 09:44 AM
  #94
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What goes around comes around. Interesting that the Blackhawks assign a value to PG that was absent from this forum.
What's more interesting is that people valued Scotty Bowman's word. So which is it? Did we really miss on McGuire? Or is Bowman's word obsolete? 'Cause Scotty had to have a say in the Gauthier hiring as well.

Besides, other teams will always see guys differently than the ones who had to live with it for a few years. We were done with those guys, sometimes, a fresh start does good to people.

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07-11-2012, 09:46 AM
  #95
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Good luck Chicago.

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07-11-2012, 09:53 AM
  #96
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We have our own version in Mr. Therrien. Recycled. Reused. Repurposed.
This is the way of the NHL.
yup...

though in fairness, you can't ignore that Therrien actually did have some solid results in his last stop. Yes, he got fired, but that was a year after leading his team to the cup finals.

let's just hope that in our case, "3rd times a charm"

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07-11-2012, 09:59 AM
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What's more interesting is that people valued Scotty Bowman's word. So which is it? Did we really miss on McGuire? Or is Bowman's word obsolete? 'Cause Scotty had to have a say in the Gauthier hiring as well.

Besides, other teams will always see guys differently than the ones who had to live with it for a few years. We were done with those guys, sometimes, a fresh start does good to people.
To a degree here. I don't think Bowman comments on every single move. I'd be shocked if he were contacted for this in a more than regular staff capacity.

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:03 AM
  #98
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How is a guy with poor social abilities suppose to help players ?

What's he gonna do, send them letters and sneak out the back door to avoid talking to anyone ?

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07-11-2012, 10:06 AM
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I am willing to belive PG has some talent as a pro scout. Gomez and Ninimaa cant oversahdow every other evaluation he ever made.

It's the 'Director of Player Personnel' that still stuns me. I have to believe that some people skill is involved.

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07-11-2012, 10:14 AM
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Reasons why Hawks hired "Gauthier the Goat."

1. Hawks management must be pissed that we took Bergevin.

2. Hawks management must be pissed to see how good a job Bergevin is doing with the habs.

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