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Official Predators Off-Season 2012 Thread - Part II

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Old
07-10-2012, 03:51 PM
  #451
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While I can't agree that Pekka is overpaid, I'll give you Gaustad.

Since you mentioned we need to shed the "cheap" label, how do you propose that we do so?
Easy, spend to the midpoint every year, at least. And be there when the season starts - not some random future date when we add a guy or two at the trade deadline.

No one's asking them to turn into the Rangers, but being within a few 100k of the cap floor for most of every year - that's not the way to shed the "cheap" label.

If you have to overpay for a few guys along the way - so be it. Consider it the cost of doing business - to establish a rep of being a franchise that is at least as concerned with winning games as being frugal.

That way when Ryan Suter calls up Zach Parise and talks about signing with Nashville, Parise doesn't laugh and say "no, but how about Minnesota".

There is no cup for spending the least money in the NHL.

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07-10-2012, 04:16 PM
  #452
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Sounds to me like Poile's biggest problem is he can't close the deal. We always hear we're in the running for such and such but for one reason or another Poile can't close the deal in the end. And before you ask me "what was he supposed to do, he offered x amount of money", well maybe they needed x amount of money and something else, I don't know. I know this. If I missed on as many contracts as Poile has missed on, I'd be out the door...

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07-10-2012, 04:18 PM
  #453
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Easy, spend to the midpoint every year, at least. And be there when the season starts - not some random future date when we add a guy or two at the trade deadline.

No one's asking them to turn into the Rangers, but being within a few 100k of the cap floor for most of every year - that's not the way to shed the "cheap" label.

If you have to overpay for a few guys along the way - so be it. Consider it the cost of doing business - to establish a rep of being a franchise that is at least as concerned with winning games as being frugal.

That way when Ryan Suter calls up Zach Parise and talks about signing with Nashville, Parise doesn't laugh and say "no, but how about Minnesota".

There is no cup for spending the least money in the NHL.
Totally guessing, but I think he meant for ideas in based on today's market. Who is out there now for us to spend even to the midpoint?

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07-10-2012, 04:29 PM
  #454
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Totally guessing, but I think he meant for ideas in based on today's market. Who is out there now for us to spend even to the midpoint?
I'd like us to bring back AK. I think Semin would be a good risk. I'd like our defense alot better with Coliacovo somewhere in the mix as Josi insurance, rather than playing Blum/Ekholm and hoping for the best.

The pickings are slim.

Can't wait until all the FA's are gone, and then say "well, we wanted to spend money, but there's no one any good left, so well just chill with the smallest payroll". It all goes back to the words vs actions - they say we have money to spend, and were willing to spend it - we just never actually cut the checks.

Even rewind to July 1st. Regardless of what Suter did, there's still room to improve the top 6 forwards. Why did we sit on our hands there? Am I going to be fed the line "oh, but there was no one out there we wanted" or "we called so and so but he was too expensive". This was the exact same talk last year on this date. On 7/10/2013, we'll probably be sitting around here talking about how there's no one left as a UFA, and x player would have been great but he went somewhere else and player y got too much money, etc, etc, etc.

Nonetheless, this is sort of a multi-year directive. It's hard to get a "cheap" rap if you're spending in the middle of the pack every year over a period of time.


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07-10-2012, 04:44 PM
  #455
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I'd like us to bring back AK. I think Semin would be a good risk. I'd like our defense alot better with Coliacovo somewhere in the mix as Josi insurance, rather than playing Blum/Ekholm and hoping for the best.

The pickings are slim.

Can't wait until all the FA's are gone, and then say "well, we wanted to spend money, but there's no one any good left, so well just chill with the smallest payroll". It all goes back to the words vs actions - they say we have money to spend, and were willing to spend it - we just never actually cut the checks.

Even rewind to July 1st. Regardless of what Suter did, there's still room to improve the top 6 forwards. Why did we sit on our hands there? Am I going to be fed the line "oh, but there was no one out there we wanted" or "we called so and so but he was too expensive". This was the exact same talk last year on this date. On 7/10/2013, we'll probably be sitting around here talking about how there's no one left as a UFA, and x player would have been great but he went somewhere else and player y got too much money, etc, etc, etc.

Nonetheless, this is sort of a multi-year directive. It's hard to get a "cheap" rap if you're spending in the middle of the pack every year over a period of time.
Yeah, that's more what I meant.

But, I think it's still a 2-way street. I'd certainly go after Semin, AK not so much, but realistically, there aren't very many players out there that would be an upgrade over what we have, and the ones that are, do they want to play here?

I know it's been said for a few years, and they management was looking at last offseason and this offseason to spend the $. Problem is the main 2 cogs in that plan have jammed. One is gone, the other might be.

I think it's pretty easy to forget that we're just 2-3 years removed from all the Boots crap, and just now feeling the "locally owned" positives.

Also, say what you will about overpayments, but these boards have erupted several times this season with Pekka's contract, what we gave up in trades for Gill and Gaustad, some were even saying not to bring in Radulov because he owed us an entire season, so at this point, it's quite clear to me that Poile cannot win. Ever.

If Poile/Trotz can get us to the PO's every season and keep building through the draft I am confident that the team will continue to put butts in seats and the $ is there for the right player.

I thought those players were our home-grown defensive duo, but apparently I was misguided. Quotes of intentions be damned.

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07-10-2012, 05:02 PM
  #456
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Sounds to me like Poile's biggest problem is he can't close the deal. We always hear we're in the running for such and such but for one reason or another Poile can't close the deal in the end. And before you ask me "what was he supposed to do, he offered x amount of money", well maybe they needed x amount of money and something else, I don't know. I know this. If I missed on as many contracts as Poile has missed on, I'd be out the door...
This is my biggest issue with Poile. He's in on everything (typically) but swings and misses for whatever reason. Something just doesn't jive well with this.

I am also shocked he actually thought Ryan was staying. After the All Star game comments and body language during interviews you could just tell he wasn't going to stick around. I don't care what he said to Poile, if he wanted to sign he would've put a signed contract on Poile's desk. I said back in late october I thought Suter and Parise were going to go to the same team. And they did. End of story.

Last year I was gung-ho in my pleading for Poile to make game changing moves last summer. Didn't happen. We made some big changes (which I applauded) but also brought a head case from Russia back (which everyone but me applauded). My point, which was poopooed at the time, was that this past year was the one year you knew you had the big 3 signed. There are no guarantees in life and there was certainly no guarantees that we were going to retain their services for the next decade. Last year was our chance to win it and for whatever reason (Rads, Trotz, etc) we failed to produce.

People are talking about trying to salvage the team around Weber but I once again point to Weber's unwillingness to sign long term last year and continued reluctance should sound familiar to some people because we just lost Suter to the same reluctance. It is better to trade him now, get the best package we can of young studs at forward and D and let the chips fall where they may this year. If we get into the playoffs great, if we don't, perfect let's get an elite prospect in the draft. Our hopes of being a cap team and our chances to win the cup closed when suter closed the door on us. A quick rebuild is in order.

Sadly, I don't think I want both Poile and Trotz overseeing it. I would rather have one or the other and get fresh blood in here. Poile because he is too loyal to people like Weber and Legwand. Trotz because he is overly hard on young players.

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07-10-2012, 05:42 PM
  #457
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great post HC24

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07-10-2012, 06:58 PM
  #458
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Apparently the HABS and better yet Doans cousin and netminder in Montreal CP have talked about him joining us in MTL. Doans agent apparently commented on the HABS contacting them already. HE is getting a little older but I wouldn't mind his leadership in the lockeroom in MTL for sure.
Click on HFBoards ... Click on Eastern Conference ... Click on Montreal Canadiens

Then post away ...

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07-10-2012, 08:23 PM
  #459
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Click on HFBoards ... Click on Eastern Conference ... Click on Montreal Canadiens

Then post away ...
We are already discussing this ad nauseum over there.

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07-10-2012, 09:12 PM
  #460
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so you thought we'd care?


Anyway, was Ray Shero really the better gm?

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07-10-2012, 09:21 PM
  #461
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so you thought we'd care?


Anyway, was Ray Shero really the better gm?
Hard to say. He was handed the two best players in hockey, an ownership group with a winning pedigree and an open check book. I think he's done amazing things in Pittsburgh regardless. He learned his lessons well from his dad and Poile. I think Shero is the new age model for a GM. Then again, it comes back to strong leadership from above and he has that. I think Poile could've done the same thing if given those same boundaries.

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07-10-2012, 09:53 PM
  #462
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Hard to say. He was handed the two best players in hockey, an ownership group with a winning pedigree and an open check book. I think he's done amazing things in Pittsburgh regardless. He learned his lessons well from his dad and Poile. I think Shero is the new age model for a GM. Then again, it comes back to strong leadership from above and he has that. I think Poile could've done the same thing if given those same boundaries.
Heck Glenn ... you or I could have done much of that with Malkin, Crosby, and company with Mario's checkbook.

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07-10-2012, 10:14 PM
  #463
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so you thought we'd care?


Anyway, was Ray Shero really the better gm?
Just be happy you weren't stuck with ****** Canoe Gauthier

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07-11-2012, 06:58 AM
  #464
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Supposedly though money's not the issue and Poile is still not getting it done. I really think the issue might be he has trouble closing, he's just not aggressive enough.

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07-11-2012, 07:22 AM
  #465
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Heck Glenn ... you or I could have done much of that with Malkin, Crosby, and company with Mario's checkbook.
If that was the case why did the GM before Shero get canned? Not trying to be a donkey here but Shero took what was given, a very good team, and turned them into Stanley Cup champs with some bold moves and a great coaching hire. Sometimes bold moves work, sometimes they don't. In his case, he did what he had to do to succeed.

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07-11-2012, 09:03 AM
  #466
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While we were sitting on our hands waiting for the Suter sweepstakes, which blew up in our faces, teams like Colorado and Dallas went out and got some players! Why were we not in the running for PA Parenteau, Ray Whitney, Jagr, Carle, Garrison, Jokinen, Penner or guys who are still available: Semin, Doan, AK, DMoore or Colaiacovo? Just to name a few...

Seems like our plan B C D was waiting for Suter to sign. GMDP needs to pull his head out of the sand and go get some guys! Show Weber that we are STILL a team that will be a Playoff/SC team that will go out and get some pieces we need to win. DO SOMETHING!

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07-11-2012, 09:13 AM
  #467
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While we were sitting on our hands waiting for the Suter sweepstakes, which blew up in our faces, teams like Colorado and Dallas went out and got some players! Why were we not in the running for PA Parenteau, Ray Whitney, Jagr, Carle, Garrison, Jokinen, Penner or guys who are still available: Semin, Doan, AK, DMoore or Colaiacovo? Just to name a few...

Seems like our plan B C D was waiting for Suter to sign. GMDP needs to pull his head out of the sand and go get some guys! Show Weber that we are STILL a team that will be a Playoff/SC team that will go out and get some pieces we need to win. DO SOMETHING!
There is NO way Poile was "sitting on his hands".... the problem is we never know who we made an offer to, and who just flat out wouldnt consider nashville, for whatever reason..

I doubt jagr would have considered us even if we had offered more money...

dont know about carle, I had assumed he would be a target for a Suter replacement but poile may think that with our prospects coming up we shouldnt commit to a guy for 5-6 years at 6 mil per if he thinks they guy would end up being a second pair guy for us...

and the Weber thing works both ways... im sure the UFAs want to know if Weber is going to bolt or not.. so its a tough spot for Poile...

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07-11-2012, 10:19 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
There is NO way Poile was "sitting on his hands".... the problem is we never know who we made an offer to, and who just flat out wouldnt consider nashville, for whatever reason..

I doubt jagr would have considered us even if we had offered more money...

dont know about carle, I had assumed he would be a target for a Suter replacement but poile may think that with our prospects coming up we shouldnt commit to a guy for 5-6 years at 6 mil per if he thinks they guy would end up being a second pair guy for us...

and the Weber thing works both ways... im sure the UFAs want to know if Weber is going to bolt or not.. so its a tough spot for Poile...
Which is why it is time to move weber. He's had ample time to commit, he hasn't. Like Suter the writing has been on the wall for months. Call me negative, but it would be significantly better for our organization to trade weber at this point.

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07-11-2012, 10:32 AM
  #469
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There is NO way Poile was "sitting on his hands".... the problem is we never know who we made an offer to, and who just flat out wouldnt consider nashville, for whatever reason..

I doubt jagr would have considered us even if we had offered more money...

dont know about carle, I had assumed he would be a target for a Suter replacement but poile may think that with our prospects coming up we shouldnt commit to a guy for 5-6 years at 6 mil per if he thinks they guy would end up being a second pair guy for us...

and the Weber thing works both ways... im sure the UFAs want to know if Weber is going to bolt or not.. so its a tough spot for Poile...
Really? Who have we signed (do not include our own guys)? Who did we make any offer too except Suter? And Parise? We were going to need additional pieces even if Suter resigned. Who did we go after? Who are we going after now? This silence drives the fanbase CRAZY! Why be so secretive? Other teams don't. I think the fanbase would cut GMDP some slack if we knew he was trying to get some better players. Make it known who you are going after or talking to. What offers have been given? Refused? That way we know who to boo when we play them. Something... please

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07-11-2012, 10:39 AM
  #470
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Which is why it is time to move weber. He's had ample time to commit, he hasn't. Like Suter the writing has been on the wall for months. Call me negative, but it would be significantly better for our organization to trade weber at this point.
I agree! I WANT Weber to be a Pred BUT if he does not want to sign a contract to stay here for the rest of his career (13/14yrs @ 7.5-8.5M) then get a list of teams he wants to go to and make the best deal for Nashville! Even if it is a sign and trade, get the ball a rollin'! Do not drag this out... again! Get it done or move on.

We still have plenty of good pieces, we just need a couple of better/best pieces.

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07-11-2012, 10:44 AM
  #471
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Really? Who have we signed (do not include our own guys)? Who did we make any offer too except Suter? And Parise? We were going to need additional pieces even if Suter resigned. Who did we go after? Who are we going after now? This silence drives the fanbase CRAZY! Why be so secretive? Other teams don't. I think the fanbase would cut GMDP some slack if we knew he was trying to get some better players. Make it known who you are going after or talking to. What offers have been given? Refused? That way we know who to boo when we play them. Something... please
First of all, if Poile let everyone know who he was in trade talks with, and what players were being offered, no GM in the league would work with him again. No one wants to hear that their boss is shopping them to the league.

As far as what we've offered, he can't really divulge that info either, because first of all your team will feel that you don't think they're good enough (we've seen this in the past) and if a $ amount gets out, that can be used against you in negotiations ("you were willing to pay X for X, I think I'm worth that")

I know this time of year is tough on the fans, and I know that this has been a huge blow to our team, but I can guarantee you that Poile is working his phone, looking for ways to improve the club and maximize his assets almost every waking moment. We won't see all the practice swings he takes, we'll just see the homeruns and strikeouts.

And yes, I know the Poile bashers will jump on the "strikeouts" portion of my post and ignore almost all the rest of it.

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07-11-2012, 11:08 AM
  #472
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First of all, if Poile let everyone know who he was in trade talks with, and what players were being offered, no GM in the league would work with him again. No one wants to hear that their boss is shopping them to the league.

As far as what we've offered, he can't really divulge that info either, because first of all your team will feel that you don't think they're good enough (we've seen this in the past) and if a $ amount gets out, that can be used against you in negotiations ("you were willing to pay X for X, I think I'm worth that")

I know this time of year is tough on the fans, and I know that this has been a huge blow to our team, but I can guarantee you that Poile is working his phone, looking for ways to improve the club and maximize his assets almost every waking moment. We won't see all the practice swings he takes, we'll just see the homeruns and strikeouts.

And yes, I know the Poile bashers will jump on the "strikeouts" portion of my post and ignore almost all the rest of it.
just like last year when his fax machine was working wrt RFA debacle.

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07-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  #473
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Really? Who have we signed (do not include our own guys)? Who did we make any offer too except Suter? And Parise? We were going to need additional pieces even if Suter resigned. Who did we go after? Who are we going after now? This silence drives the fanbase CRAZY! Why be so secretive? Other teams don't. I think the fanbase would cut GMDP some slack if we knew he was trying to get some better players. Make it known who you are going after or talking to. What offers have been given? Refused? That way we know who to boo when we play them. Something... please
give me a list of all contracts the bluejackets, oilers, devils, and senators have OFFERED free agents. Including us, that is a sixth of the league. Fans are not privy to everything.

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07-11-2012, 11:29 AM
  #474
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just like last year when his fax machine was working wrt RFA debacle.
You mean the situation that never saw a hearing, so no one actually knows what happened? Being accused of something is much different from being guilty of something, as hard as that is for us to stomach.

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07-11-2012, 12:23 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by weeze View Post
While we were sitting on our hands waiting for the Suter sweepstakes, which blew up in our faces, teams like Colorado and Dallas went out and got some players! Why were we not in the running for PA Parenteau, Ray Whitney, Jagr, Carle, Garrison, Jokinen, Penner or guys who are still available: Semin, Doan, AK, DMoore or Colaiacovo? Just to name a few...

Seems like our plan B C D was waiting for Suter to sign. GMDP needs to pull his head out of the sand and go get some guys! Show Weber that we are STILL a team that will be a Playoff/SC team that will go out and get some pieces we need to win. DO SOMETHING!
Since you're obviously in his office and know exactly what Poile is doing, what did he have for lunch today?

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