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Andrej Sekera to Ottawa

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #51
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfatfist View Post

Do you think that your comparison to Phillips (our 3rd pairing defenceman in the twighlight of his career) has contradicted my statement that he's not worth a top prospect or player?
Only 28 of the top 60 Quality of Competition defensemen in the NHL also had a positive GF/GA differential per 60 AND a positive Relative Corsi

Of those 28, do you know how many were under 26 yrs old?

Sekera was one of the 40 best defensemen in the NHL last year.



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This is hardly some prospect in Europe that we don't see play. We've watched Sekara come here for years now, and he's never shown me more than decent Dman. He's on the small side, he doesn't produce anywhere near the offence people hoped, and in the past couple games up here he seemed completely lost. He's a nice mid-pairing defenceman, for sure.
Again... I would be embarrassed if I had an opinion that was so completely contradicted by that silly thing called "facts".

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Sorry that I wouldn't want the Sens to give up anything substantive for him. Maybe if you come up with some nice comparison to Carkner, I could be swayed.
I'm not sorry,

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07-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Sekera>Methot

I'm not as high on Sekera as most Sabre fans but even I would not trade Sekera in the division, unless it's major overpayment....like Zibenejad +.
Thats not my point, im just saying how ridiculous it is to even it bring up.

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07-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
QOC
Sekera +0.38 (2nd on team)
Phillips -0.15 (4th on team)

Relative Corsi
Sekera +7.3
Phillips -8.2

GF on per 60
Sekera 2.51
Phillips 2.52

GA on per 60
Sekera 2.19
Phillips 2.17
?

Now I'm convinced! What a great offensive defenseman.

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
?

Now I'm convinced! What a great offensive defenseman.
GF per 60 ES (fun comparison)
Ryan Suter 2.63
Andrej Sekera 2.51
Alex Edler 2.44

note : Sekera is a shutdown defensemen

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07-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #55
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Sekera >> Methot. Not only is his offense better, but he is >>> at defense. Before the trade i wouldn't have thought Sekera for Foligno would have been fair. I'd have assumed Buffalo would have had to add. I think the Sens got royally ripped off for Foligno.

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07-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #56
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As a SENS fan I really like how Sekera plays the game and would probably be #2-3 on our Depth chart. What we would have to give would be to much and would deplete our team from any playoff hopes, so I say pass on Sekera.

Anyhow I like the defensive corps that we have and I believe MacLean will adjust his system with what he have. The only move I see from Murray is to acquire a 2nd line winger so we can continue swaping our lines up in 2012/13

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07-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
GF per 60 ES (fun comparison)
Ryan Suter 2.63
Andrej Sekera 2.51
Alex Edler 2.44
LOL are you serious?

Brooks Orpik 3.24
Erik Gutafsson 3.31

Filip Kuba's is higher than Karlsson! Kuba > Karlsson offensively I guess?

What does it matter if he doesn't touch the puck?

Your argument has serious flaws.

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
That's your opinion. Unfortunately for you, there are STATS that show how good he is. I'm sorry, but you can't argue with stats. Sekera is a top pairing defenseman on most teams in the league.
Yeah man, for sure. It's just an opinion. I would be more than happy to end up with AS, but not if it meant giving up anything like Zibanejad or Turris for him. I sincely doubt you can find other Sens fans would, (and again, just an opinion).

To your other point - statistics are usually correct, it's their interpretation that's often misleading. (why do you capitalize STATS?) I don't doubt that Sekara is a useful dman, who plays good minutes for Sabres and is particularly succesful in one aspect of the game. That being said, I don't see enough to call him a 1st pairing defenceman, not in the same light as guys like Chara, Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Doughty etc...

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07-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
Sekera >> Methot. Not only is his offense better, but he is >>> at defense. Before the trade i wouldn't have thought Sekera for Foligno would have been fair. I'd have assumed Buffalo would have had to add. I think the Sens got royally ripped off for Foligno.
Obvious is obvious. No one is disagreeing with you.

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07-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Obvious is obvious. No one is disagreeing with you.
So what the hell happened? Did Foligno demand a trade behind the scenes or something?

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07-11-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
So what the hell happened? Did Foligno demand a trade behind the scenes or something?
Murray is dumb

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:14 PM
  #62
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Foligno....oh wait, your GM wont trade him in division

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07-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
GF per 60 ES (fun comparison)
Ryan Suter 2.63
Andrej Sekera 2.51
Alex Edler 2.44
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
LOL are you serious?

Brooks Orpik 3.24
Erik Gutafsson 3.31

Filip Kuba's is higher than Karlsson! Kuba > Karlsson offensively I guess?

What does it matter if he doesn't touch the puck?

Your argument has serious flaws.
And Jame disappears without a trace.

There are many defenseman with good GF per 60 and GA per 60. Sekera is not a top 40 D using these stats.

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07-11-2012, 12:19 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Only 28 of the top 60 Quality of Competition defensemen in the NHL also had a positive GF/GA differential per 60 AND a positive Relative Corsi

Of those 28, do you know how many were under 26 yrs old?

Sekera was one of the 40 best defensemen in the NHL last year.





Again... I would be embarrassed if I had an opinion that was so completely contradicted by that silly thing called "facts".



I'm not sorry,
I'm not embarrased at all. I actually go to all the games and watch these players - not just quote stats I found online. Sekara is good in a couple aspect of the games - he's not rounded enough to be considered a true 1st pairing defender. That's the definition of a role player. Sekara plays good minutes for the Sabres (and plays well), but also benefits from the time/position he's put in and generally the play of Ryan Miller.

Good defenceman to have on your team. But, not exceptional.

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:21 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
LOL are you serious?

Brooks Orpik 3.24
Erik Gutafsson 3.31

Filip Kuba's is higher than Karlsson! Kuba > Karlsson offensively I guess?

What does it matter if he doesn't touch the puck?

Your argument has serious flaws.
Context is important

Gustafson? seriously.... first, he played 30 games (make sure you filter out players that play less then half a season.... just a tip),... Second.... CONTEXT.... the first filter is QUALITY OF COMPETITION, gustafson isn't even in the top 150.

It's important to quantify role FIRST.

Once you understand WHO the shutdown minute, top line matchup, heavy lifting defensemen are...THEN look at the production data among THOSE defensemen

Kuba is not better than Karlsson. You might say that Kuba's data is impacted significantly because he plays with Karlsson, and his most common forward line pairing is the Spezza/Michalek line.

Would you tie Sekera's production data to his partner, Robyn Regehr? FYI Regehr was 192nd in the league in GF per 60 ES

So we can say that Kuba, was definitely impacted by playing with the offensive force that is Karlsson (4th in the league), and we can also say that Sekera on the other hand, in NO WAY, benefited from playing with Robyn Regehr (offensively)

(Same can be said for Orpik playing with Malkin, etc)

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07-11-2012, 12:23 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfatfist View Post
I'm not embarrased at all. I actually go to all the games and watch these players - not just quote stats I found online. Sekara is good in a couple aspect of the games - he's not rounded enough to be considered a true 1st pairing defender. That's the definition of a role player. Sekara plays good minutes for the Sabres (and plays well), but also benefits from the time/position he's put in and generally the play of Ryan Miller.

Good defenceman to have on your team. But, not exceptional.
you should probably watch harder

he's put in the hardest positions
(top d zone shifts, top competition, top matchups)

your definition of a role player made me laugh. thanks

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:29 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Context is important

Gustafson? seriously.... first, he played 30 games (make sure you filter out players that play less then half a season.... just a tip),... Second.... CONTEXT.... the first filter is QUALITY OF COMPETITION, gustafson isn't even in the top 150.

It's important to quantify role FIRST.

Once you understand WHO the shutdown minute, top line matchup, heavy lifting defensemen are...THEN look at the production data among THOSE defensemen

Kuba is not better than Karlsson. You might say that Kuba's data is impacted significantly because he plays with Karlsson, and his most common forward line pairing is the Spezza/Michalek line.

Would you tie Sekera's production data to his partner, Robyn Regehr? FYI Regehr was 192nd in the league in GF per 60 ES

So we can say that Kuba, was definitely impacted by playing with the offensive force that is Karlsson (4th in the league), and we can also say that Sekera on the other hand, in NO WAY, benefited from playing with Robyn Regehr (offensively)

(Same can be said for Orpik playing with Malkin, etc)
Where do you get your QoC stats? On behind the net, none of Sekera's QoC stats are equal to the ones you posted.

Also, all of Buffalo D have + QoC, while all of Ottawa's D have negative. You can't compare those numbers between teams and D across the league. They're all different and those stats are screwed up. They're useful to know who faces the best competition on a particular team.

Anyway, the way you look at it, every team automatically has 2 defensemen in the top 60 or what? Sekera is shutdown on the Sabres = top 60? Then you use your special stats to determine he's top 40? Or the top 60 QoC in the whole league? Either way Makes no sense.

What you say about Kuba/Karlsson makes no sense and you didn't answer the question.

Anyway I have to go now.

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07-11-2012, 01:10 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you should probably watch harder

he's put in the hardest positions
(top d zone shifts, top competition, top matchups)

your definition of a role player made me laugh. thanks
Huh!?!?!? This is compeltely consistent with what I'm saying. When the Sabres have come here their defence has looked lost and disorganized. It's true that Sekara has usually played against the top lines, it's just that he wasn't particularly effective. It was Miller they had no answer for. Seems like everyone after those games was of the same opinion.

If you'd like to make a convincing argument, why don't you do splits for this year on Sekara - a 1st half where Miller struggled vs a 2nd half when he regained form. (I have a suspicion you won't do this, but will just come back and troll some more).

I don't really care how you use the term role player.

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07-11-2012, 01:43 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Where do you get your QoC stats? On behind the net, none of Sekera's QoC stats are equal to the ones you posted.
Yes. Sekera was 42nd in the league in QoC among defensemen who played atleast 40 games.

Of the top 60 defensemen in QoC, only 28 of them posted both a positive GF/GA differential, and a positive Corsi.

Looking at context/role (facing top lines, dzone shifts, etc) and combining it with all around production (GF/GA) and puck possession (corsi). Paints a very good picture of what a successful shutdown, 2 way defensemen looks like.

Quote:
Also, all of Buffalo D have + QoC, while all of Ottawa's D have negative. You can't compare those numbers between teams and D across the league. They're all different and those stats are screwed up. They're useful to know who faces the best competition on a particular team.
Yes, You can compare role... and then use production relevant statistics to gauge performance. Sekera's production was equal to phillips even though sekera had more difficult assignments/less favorable opportunities

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Anyway, the way you look at it, every team automatically has 2 defensemen in the top 60 or what? Sekera is shutdown on the Sabres = top 60? Then you use your special stats to determine he's top 40? Or the top 60 QoC in the whole league? Either way Makes no sense.
I looked at the top 60 in QoC... regardless of team.

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What you say about Kuba/Karlsson makes no sense and you didn't answer the question.
You don't think Kuba's GF per 60 mins of ES ice time was impacted by being paired with Karlsson????

uh... ok

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07-11-2012, 02:02 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by bigfatfist View Post
Huh!?!?!? This is compeltely consistent with what I'm saying. When the Sabres have come here their defence has looked lost and disorganized. It's true that Sekara has usually played against the top lines, it's just that he wasn't particularly effective. It was Miller they had no answer for. Seems like everyone after those games was of the same opinion.
That's just false... utterly false
It's cool that you know so much about Sekera based on the 3 games he played vs Ottawa this year

Quote:
If you'd like to make a convincing argument, why don't you do splits for this year on Sekara - a 1st half where Miller struggled vs a 2nd half when he regained form. (I have a suspicion you won't do this, but will just come back and troll some more).
hey, i have a suggestion. if you think your "suspicion" will prove me wrong... why dont you look at it for yourself.

the fact, that a lot of Sabres fans will tell you, is that the Sekera helped turn the Sabres/Miller's season around, by being moved into the shut down role (paired with Regehr).

Regehr/Myers didn't work. And then Myers broke his wrist.

First they tried Leopold/Regehr. Then by early decemebr it was Sekera/Regehr... Before Miller even returned.

Then Sekera got dinged up and missed a few weeks.

The Sabres season turned around in mid January, when Sekera returned. (along with other injured players). The team was healthy, and roles were more defined

Regehr/Sekera was the shutdown pairing. They took the lionshare of defensive zone draws and matched up against top lines.
(for your interest you can look at dec 20 @ ottawa. the shift chart will show that Sekera matched Spezza all night, and that line produced nothing at ES)

The Ehrhoff and Myers pairings got the easier offensive zone shifts, weaker matchups

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I don't really care how you use the term role player.
You should. It's important to communicate in the same language. I mean, telling people that Defensemen that aren't "true 1st pairing" players, are subsequently defined as role players... is kind of silly.

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Old
07-11-2012, 03:08 PM
  #71
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Please....there's talk in here like Sekera's the best D-man on the planet.

Not needed in Ottawa, thanks anyway.

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07-11-2012, 03:13 PM
  #72
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Saying Sekera is a 2way defenseman is like saying Dennis Wideman can play defense.

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07-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #73
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Faced with objective facts, people continue to slam their heads against a wall and grunt.

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07-11-2012, 04:02 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Faced with objective facts, people continue to slam their heads against a wall and grunt.
no no no, advanced stats only apply to Karlsson. Silly FSE.

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07-11-2012, 04:06 PM
  #75
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Please....there's talk in here like Sekera's the best D-man on the planet.

Not needed in Ottawa, thanks anyway.
yea, you guys got Methot and Lundin... you're all set

Sekera would immediately be the #2 defensemen in Ottawa

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