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Rick Nash continued - NYR BOS PHI PIT DET SJS

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07-11-2012, 03:55 PM
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JawandaPuck
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Rick Nash continued - NYR BOS PHI PIT DET SJS

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=637714

NEW YORK RANGERS

Why pursue Nash: The Rangers' immediate need for Nash, who has scored 30 or more goals in seven of his nine seasons, is obvious with Marian Gaborik expected to be out until possibly December after undergoing shoulder surgery. Beyond that, the Rangers' need for Nash is obvious because, well, they already needed to score more. After averaging 2.71 goals per game in the regular season, they dipped to 2.15 goals in the playoffs -- and came up short in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Fit: Nash could work in New York because the Rangers have the centers in Brad Richards and Derek Stepan who could distribute the puck to him. While Richards playing with Gaborik wasn't exactly like putting oil in water, it also didn't bring out the best in either guy. Just speculating here, but it's possible Nash, a player who needs the puck, would fit better with Richards with rookie Chris Kreider on the left side.

Capology: Nash would become the highest-paid player on the team, but that would be the case for five of the six teams on his approved list (Pittsburgh has Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin making $8.7 million per season). The Rangers would be able to take on Nash's contract without having to give up salary in return, but odds are that's not what they would want to happen.

Who could go: The Rangers would likely want to include Brandon Dubinsky and his $4.2 million cap hit in the deal, but Howson clearly will need a lot more than a guy who had just 34 points last season, down from the 54 he had in 2010-11. Other names who could be in the mix include Michael Del Zotto, Carl Hagelin, Tim Erixon, Christian Thomas, and Ohio native J.T. Miller.

BOSTON BRUINS

Why pursue Nash: Questions linger about the health of Nathan Horton (concussion), so the Bruins could be in the market for a big-scoring right wing like Nash. Boston had enough scoring last season to finish tied for second in the League with 3.17 goals per game, but the power play was just average (17.2 percent). Nash had 19 points on a power play that was 24th in the NHL. That would have led the Bruins.

Fit: The Bruins already have a good group of forwards with Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Tyler Seguin, Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand and Horton -- if and when he's healthy. If there are doubts about Horton, then clearly there is room for Nash, especially if one of these top-six guys would have to go to Columbus in the trade. However, you're talking about the core of Boston's forward group that led the team to a Stanley Cup championship in 2011, so general manager Peter Chiarelli may not be inclined to move any of them.

Capology: This is a problem because, according to CapGeek, Boston is already up against the $70.2 million salary cap. Chiarelli would have to move money to fit Nash in, but that means breaking up the core. The deal may work only if Columbus is willing to take the $5 million cap hit occupied by Tim Thomas, who is not going to play this season. The Blue Jackets would not have to pay Thomas.

Who could go: According to Joe Haggerty of CSNNE.com, the names on Howson's want list include Lucic, Seguin and top defensive prospect Dougie Hamilton. Seguin and Hamilton are likely non-starters for Chiarelli.

SAN JOSE SHARKS

Why pursue Nash: The Sharks need a jolt, a change of pace, something to jumpstart them because they are running out of time with their current core. Nash would give them another major scoring threat, taking some of the pressure off Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture and Joe Pavelski.

Fit: Nash and Sharks captain Joe Thornton are good friends who have played together in international tournaments as well as during the work stoppage in 2004-05. They already have chemistry and would probably be paired together on the same line from the outset. Nash would also give San Jose a front-line right wing, which would allow coach Todd McLellan to use Martin Havlat in a second- or third-line role.

Capology: According to CapGeek, the Sharks have only $5.57 million in cap space with just 20 players signed, so clearly GM Doug Wilson would have to move salary out to acquire Nash.

Who could go: The Blue Jackets reportedly want Couture, but Wilson won't part with a 23-year-old center who already has two 30-goal seasons. Pavelski is an interesting candidate, but he scored a career-high 31 goals this past season and he's the Sharks' do-it-all forward. Gritty left wing Ryane Clowe is another possibility. If Wilson wants Nash he may have to show some flexibility, especially when it comes to Pavelski.

PHILADELPHIA FLYERS

Why pursue Nash: The Flyers lost offense this offseason with Jaromir Jagr leaving for the Dallas Stars via free agency. It's interesting to note that Nash had only five more points than the 40-year-old Jagr this past season -- but Nash didn't have Claude Giroux as his center. James van Riemsdyk was also traded to Toronto for defenseman Luke Schenn, so clearly the Flyers have room up front and a need for offense.

Fit: It seems natural for Nash to slot in on the right side of Giroux and Scott Hartnell. That's where Jagr played and excelled, and could you imagine the power and skill that a Hartnell-Giroux-Nash line could provide the Flyers? That's to say nothing of adding Nash to Philadelphia's power play. Nash can be a physical forward, so it doesn't seem like he would have too much trouble adapting to the Flyers' style.

Capology: The Flyers have just enough room under the cap to squeeze in Nash, but they would have to deal some salary to get him so it shouldn't be a big problem for a team that is known to spend to the cap.

For teams -- like the Penguins, Red Wings and Rangers -- who missed out on prized free agents such as Ryan Suter and Zach Parise this offseason, a trade for Rick Nash could be just what the doctor ordered. (Photo: Getty Images)
Who could go: Howson and Philadelphia general manager Paul Holmgren have worked a major trade before, but it didn't exactly work out for the Blue Jackets (Jeff Carter). Howson's want list now has to include Sean Couturier (the player the Flyers drafted with the No. 8 pick in 2011 that they acquired from Columbus in the Carter deal) and Brayden Schenn, but those young forwards may be non-starters for Holmgren. Erik Gustafsson, Matt Read, Wayne Simmonds, draft picks and prospects all could be available.

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS

Why pursue Nash: The Penguins tried and failed to get Zach Parise, so clearly they feel they need to add a scoring winger into their top six. Nash, of course, fits that bill.

Fit: Sidney Crosby and Rick Nash together on the same line? It's a dream scenario that came true at the Olympics in 2010 (though it didn't work) and would for the Penguins if they're able to swing a deal for Nash. If you figure Evgeni Malkin, James Neal and Chris Kunitz will start the season together, then Crosby needs a winger to play with him and Pascal Dupuis. Hello, Nash.

Capology: Pittsburgh has the room. General manager Ray Shero created space by trading Jordan Staal to Carolina. He was going to use his cap space on Ryan Suter and/or Parise, but didn't get either one. Slotting in Nash wouldn't be a problem.

Who could go: The Penguins have several prospects who could entice Howson, including defensemen Simon Despres, Brian Dumoulin and the No. 8 pick in last month's NHL Draft, Derrick Pouliot. It's unclear if any or all are untouchable.

DETROIT RED WINGS

Why pursue Nash: Though defense is clearly where the Red Wings are lacking now after losing Nicklas Lidstrom to retirement and Brad Stuart in a trade to San Jose, Detroit also lost Jiri Hudler to the Calgary Flames in free agency. They added Mikael Samuelsson, but Nash's offense and his big body are two attributes coach Mike Babcock covets -- and Babcock coached Nash with Team Canada at the 2010 Winter Olympics. Besides, they also would be taking the best player off a team in their own division.

Fit: Nash wants to win, and he knows the Red Wings well enough after playing against them in the same division for so long that he would have to adapt to them in order to make it work. Assuming he will, picture in your mind Nash playing on the same line with Pavel Datsyuk. Doesn't that look like it would be a lot of fun to watch?

Capology: The Wings have cap space to burn and they've never been afraid to spend. They would have no problems fitting in Nash.

Who could go: For a Nash-to-Detroit trade to happen, you'd have to think that the Red Wings might have to give up more than the other teams involved because Columbus would have to see Nash at least six times a season. It's hard to fathom how much that cost would be, but Darren Helm might have to be part of the package that returns to Columbus. The Wings just signed Helm to a four-year contract.

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07-11-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Do I really have to name all 30 people who had 30 goals or more last year? Also, there were many that had "down years" that have scored 30 before... I'm not even taking the time to post all the names.
No, I don't want you to list them. That's ridiculous. A number would suffice. Certainly if there are MMMMMMAAAAAAANNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYY of them, there should be at least 60 or so (two for each team, right) that did it last year.

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07-11-2012, 03:59 PM
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People vastly overrate there upper middle level talent and high end prospects.

They treat B players like potential superstars - Del Zotto/Stepan and every prospect "will be great, just wait and see".

News flash. Most prospects DON'T make it.
Except for the fact that as a 22 year old Stepan put up 50+ points (9 less than Nash) and no I'm not comparing the two! just making a point. and Del Zotto at 21 put up 40+ pts as a PMD. You're right most don't make it, those 2 already have.

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07-11-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fizban View Post
No, I don't want you to list them. That's ridiculous. A number would suffice. Certainly if there are MMMMMMAAAAAAANNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYY of them, there should be at least 60 or so (two for each team, right) that did it last year.
There are also about 30 more that scored 28/29.. That's about 60 players. Nash is not a 40 goal scorer anymore, I understand he's the face of the franchise, and the captain and the best player CBJ has and that's how they are selling him, and thats fine. The problem? Other GMs dont view it that way.

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07-11-2012, 04:01 PM
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And Nash isn't of the variety that really has a "down" year, so those players aren't comparable, really. Nash has scored 30 goals or more in 7 of his last 8 seasons. If you can find similar guys (75%+)who had a down year, by all means count 'em.

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07-11-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Except for the fact that as a 22 year old Stepan put up 50+ points (9 less than Nash) and no I'm not comparing the two! just making a point. and Del Zotto at 21 put up 40+ pts as a PMD. You're right most don't make it, those 2 already have.
The prospect comment was referring more to JT Miller and any other prospects that have been talked about.

And yes at 22 50 pts is impressive. But it's not superstar impressive. I'm sure we could list a lot of 22 year olds who hit 50 pts. Now if at 22 he had hit 70+ pts I'd more inclined to understand and agree to as why he's so valued.

Another follow up question for Ranger fans. Do you not like Anisimov? Could he not slide in to the #2 C role and succeed?

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07-11-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by hollywood99
People vastly overrate there upper middle level talent and high end prospects.

They treat B players like potential superstars - Del Zotto/Stepan and every prospect "will be great, just wait and see".

News flash. Most prospects DON'T make it.
Del Zotto is a B player? Eighteenth in scoring and a +20. Him and Stepan have already made it and are only 21/22 respectively.

Del Zotto's not going in any case. The Rangers and him are working on a long term deal right now.

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07-11-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
They treat B players like potential superstars - Del Zotto/Stepan and every prospect "will be great, just wait and see".

and Del Zotto at 21 put up 40+ pts as a PMD. You're right most don't make it, those 2 already have.
This - Del Zotto is not a "B" player. He was 18th overall in Dman scoring last year, at the ripe old age of 21. Despite the NYR's "scoring issues", MDZ managed to outscore Duncan Keith, Jack Johnson, Brent Burns, Drew Doughty, P.K. Subban, Tobias Enstrom, OEL, John Carlson, and Nick Lidstrom among others.

His defensive game took massive strides forward as well. I will concede that +/- is a flawed stat, but MDZ's +20 rating tied for 11th in the NHL.

Just because he is #4 ON THE RANGERS does not make him a "B player".

That said, I get why he may not be an attractive piece to Columbus.

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07-11-2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
There are also about 30 more that scored 28/29.. That's about 60 players. Nash is not a 40 goal scorer anymore, I understand he's the face of the franchise, and the captain and the best player CBJ has and that's how they are selling him, and thats fine. The problem? Other GMs dont view it that way.
So you're saying that there were 30 guys that hit the 30 goal mark last year. Ok.

And no there weren't 30 more that scored 28/29 goals.

There were 5 that scored 29.
There were 5 that scored 28.
That makes 10.

The point is that these guys aren't a dime a dozen. If you have two players on your team that score more than 30 goals each year, your team is the exception rather than the norm.

Few people call that "MMMMAAAAANNNNNYYYYYYY"

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07-11-2012, 04:06 PM
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The prospect comment was referring more to JT Miller and any other prospects that have been talked about.

And yes at 22 50 pts is impressive. But it's not superstar impressive. I'm sure we could list a lot of 22 year olds who hit 50 pts. Now if at 22 he had hit 70+ pts I'd more inclined to understand and agree to as why he's so valued.

Another follow up question for Ranger fans. Do you not like Anisimov? Could he not slide in to the #2 C role and succeed?
I do like Anisimov, and he maybe be able to slide into the 2c spot, and if Nash was a 40 goal scorer, the Rangers might be willing to take that risk.

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07-11-2012, 04:07 PM
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Another follow up question for Ranger fans. Do you not like Anisimov? Could he not slide in to the #2 C role and succeed?
He might. But, Tortorella doesn't like him and would likely play Boyle in his place, a prospect that makes me cringe.

Tortorella mismanages Anisimov. He's a flawed player at this point, very weak on the puck. He's a tall, lanky centerman who was used on the wing ineffectively. He plays like Malkin once every ten games, then is invisible offensively. Very effective 5-5 defensive player, but not consistent enough offensively, at this point anyway.

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07-11-2012, 04:07 PM
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So you're saying that there were 30 guys that hit the 30 goal mark last year. Ok.

And no there weren't 30 more that scored 28/29 goals.

There were 5 that scored 29.
There were 5 that scored 28.
That makes 10.

The point is that these guys aren't a dime a dozen. If you have two players on your team that score more than 30 goals each year, your team is the exception rather than the norm.

Few people call that "MMMMAAAAANNNNNYYYYYYY"
Right, my point is it doesn't have to be RICK NASH, There are others who would also give the Rangers two 30+ goal scorers. get it?

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07-11-2012, 04:07 PM
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This - Del Zotto is not a "B" player. That is short-bus laughable. He was 18th overall in Dman scoring last year, at the ripe old age of 21. Despite the NYR's "scoring issues", MDZ managed to outscore Duncan Keith, Jack Johnson, Brent Burns, Drew Doughty, P.K. Subban, Tobias Enstrom, OEL, John Carlson, and Nick Lidstrom among others.

His defensive game took massive strides forward as well. I will concede that +/- is a flawed stat, but MDZ's +20 rating tied for 11th in the NHL.

Just because he is #4 ON THE RANGERS does not make him a "B player".

That said, I get why he may not be an attractive piece to Columbus.
Did you ask him what his definition of "B" players is?

Maybe he means as opposed to Crosby who is an "A" along with maybe 2 or 3 others.

Maybe you should get some more information before you start with the short bus speak.

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07-11-2012, 04:08 PM
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Lol, Propsal got 55 points last season...that's about par for his career. Yet he was "way past his prime" 3 seasons ago?

Flawless logic there...

Huselius is a solid complimentary piece, health has been a huge issue for him the last couple of years. What the hell is your point? He doesn't play center, nor is he a puck moving d-man
Prospal wouldn't be putting those numbers up. He got prime time minutes and offensive start/pp time because he was on a crappy team. When he played with the Rangers, he was a pure product of Gaborik. He had the skill, but his knees were finished.

Prospal is also a winger and not a center. I bought up Huselius since you seem to think Gaborik had a lot of support that helped him get 86 pts. 42 goals. You used Prospal as an example to prove your point, in return I used Husulieus who has as good of a career PPG than Prospal.

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07-11-2012, 04:09 PM
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Looks like Howson still has some pretty unrealistic returns...good luck prying some of those top tier prospects from the respective teams. If Howson thinks hes going to make off with what I would consider an astronomically higher value than what Kovalchuk drew in I think he is in for a fun season with a PO'd Nash.

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07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
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Right, my point is it doesn't have to be RICK NASH, There are others who would also give the Rangers two 30+ goal scorers. get it?
There are? Who?

There are others that have two 30+ goal scorers, but if they have them, they probably want to keep them.

The only other one I can think of is Bobby Ryan, but I wouldn't think you meant one single player to be the "MMMAAAAANNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYY" you spoke of.

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07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fizban View Post
Did you ask him what his definition of "B" players is?

Maybe he means as opposed to Crosby who is an "A" along with maybe 2 or 3 others.

Maybe you should get some more information before you start with the short bus speak.
If he meant that, he would also mean Nash is a B player.

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07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fizban View Post
Did you ask him what his definition of "B" players is?

Maybe he means as opposed to Crosby who is an "A" along with maybe 2 or 3 others.

Maybe you should get some more information before you start with the short bus speak.
It doesn't matter what his definition is. In no mind is Del Zotto a B player.

A B player AKA meaning not a star. Del Zotto is 21 with the potential to be a star. There is no disputing this. I guess everyone on the Rangers is a B player except for Gaborik and Kreider.

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07-11-2012, 04:11 PM
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Right, my point is it doesn't have to be RICK NASH, There are others who would also give the Rangers two 30+ goal scorers. get it?
Sure, but the thing is not many of them consistently score 30 goals year after year. What makes Rick Nash is the consistency to hit that mark.

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07-11-2012, 04:12 PM
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If he meant that, he would also mean Nash is a B player.
True.

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07-11-2012, 04:14 PM
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Looks like Howson still has some pretty unrealistic returns...good luck prying some of those top tier prospects from the respective teams. If Howson thinks hes going to make off with what I would consider an astronomically higher value than what Kovalchuk drew in I think he is in for a fun season with a PO'd Nash.
Yup, anyone thinking Nash deserves to bring back more than Kovalchuk is crazy.

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07-11-2012, 04:15 PM
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No Stepan no Kreider no Nash? Fine by me.

Keep him.

I'm tired of reading everyone bashing the Rangers players who are not Stepan, Kreider, or McDonagh. It's ignorant. Most of the people doing so have never seen any of them play. We've all seen Rick Nash play. We know he's good. He's not Evgeni Malkin. He's not top tier elite. He's 2nd tier, a goal scorer with nasty skills. I like him a lot as a player and would love him on the Rangers, but it's ridiculous to keep bashing Rangers players and wanting 3, 4 of our best assets for a 2nd tier elite talent being paid like a top tier elite talent.

Keep him. Trade him to Philly or Detroit. Let's start the season already, and see where Columbus ends up with him rather than Dubinsky, Anisimov, Miller, and a 1st. The same position they'd be in anyway.

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07-11-2012, 04:16 PM
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It doesn't matter what his definition is. In no mind is Del Zotto a B player.
Of course it matters. In fact that's all that matters. The fact that we're having the conversation is sufficient evidence that you're wrong.
Quote:
A B player AKA meaning not a star. Del Zotto is 21 with the potential to be a star. There is no disputing this. I guess everyone on the Rangers is a B player except for Gaborik and Kreider.
I don't know how he meant it. There's no need to call him retarded until you know what he meant though.

Perhaps in his mind:
A - Ovechkin, Crosby
B - Gaborik, Thornton
C - Del Zotto

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07-11-2012, 04:16 PM
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I heard on the Bruins board that Howson wants 2/3 of Lucic, Seguin, Hamilton. If that's true, byeeee. Don't call back.

You're not getting Seguin straight up, so just cross that name out.

I'd only take Lucic/Hamilton straight up for Nash(add a little to Hamilton obviously, but not much...). Not sure Chia wants to move an excellent D prospect we DESPERATELY need and the hometown favorite in Lucic, let alone both... No reason to move either of them.

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07-11-2012, 04:16 PM
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No Stepan no Kreider no Nash? Fine by me.

Keep him.

I'm tired of reading everyone bashing the Rangers players who are not Stepan, Kreider, or McDonagh. It's ignorant. Most of the people doing so have never seen any of them play. We've all seen Rick Nash play. We know he's good. He's not Evgeni Malkin. He's not top tier elite. He's 2nd tier, a goal scorer with nasty skills. I like him a lot as a player and would love him on the Rangers, but it's ridiculous to keep bashing Rangers players and wanting 3, 4 of our best assets for a 2nd tier elite talent being paid like a top tier elite talent.

Keep him. Trade him to Philly or Detroit. Let's start the season already, and see where Columbus ends up with him rather than Dubinsky, Anisimov, Miller, and a 1st. The same position they'd be in anyway.
Yeah, because there are so many Blue Jackets games on national T.V. compared to the Rangers...

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