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Chicago discussing Hjalmarsson package with Habs for Plekanec

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:08 PM
  #101
Bubba88
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Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
What would Chicago want from Tampa for Hjalmarsson?? I think hed make a decent pairing with Hedman.
your 1st or 2nd+3rd

Is he worth this? I don't know, I wouldn't do this as TB.

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:17 PM
  #102
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get ready for it




sharp
Hjalmarsson


plekanec
Subban

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:26 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
I love how you wrote all that and still have yet to explain to me how Sharp is soo much better then Plekanec with nearly equal ppg stats and knowing Sharp plays with better teammates and plays a considerable amount less on the pk then Plekanec.
I have yet to see someone give a real reason why Sharp is better rather then the cliche Sharp >>> Plekanec AINEC...
It's sad as I honestly believe most "fans" look at last seasons stats to make a player comparison but that is just so wrong in so many ways.
Well if you had any brains in your head, you'd know that stats are only part of the story. using stats only as your argument for anything, makes your point incomplete,at best. Ive watched both play since they have been in the league, and I do like Pleks. I find him too soft for my liking, but thats just a personal thing, Sharp is a leader on the Hawks, possibly next in line to Toews in the dressing room. Ive never heard of Pleks being talked about with the same kind of reverance in that way. So you have a 30+ goal scorer, who is a team leader, can play multiple positions, vrs a 20 goal scorer, who makes his wingers better as his on ice vision is very good. Its the compete level that seperates them. When interviewed about the other team trying to rough up the hawks in a playoff series, his comments were, go ahead let them try, we dont run from anything, (im paraphrasing). i just dont see that kind of leadership or compete level in Pleks

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:30 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
get ready for it




sharp
Hjalmarsson


plekanec
Subban
Hahahahaha. In Stan Bowman's dreams

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:35 PM
  #105
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I don't think this deal will happen. Hjalmarsson is under-rated as well, needs to go back to his pre-suspension way of playing. I think Hjalmarsson might get traded though.

There is no way Sharp is being traded, nor Kane.

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07-11-2012, 01:50 PM
  #106
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not allowed to
is there really a rule against that??

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07-11-2012, 02:51 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvisisalive View Post
Well if you had any brains in your head, you'd know that stats are only part of the story. using stats only as your argument for anything, makes your point incomplete,at best. Ive watched both play since they have been in the league, and I do like Pleks. I find him too soft for my liking, but thats just a personal thing, Sharp is a leader on the Hawks, possibly next in line to Toews in the dressing room. Ive never heard of Pleks being talked about with the same kind of reverance in that way. So you have a 30+ goal scorer, who is a team leader, can play multiple positions, vrs a 20 goal scorer, who makes his wingers better as his on ice vision is very good. Its the compete level that seperates them. When interviewed about the other team trying to rough up the hawks in a playoff series, his comments were, go ahead let them try, we dont run from anything, (im paraphrasing). i just dont see that kind of leadership or compete level in Pleks
Lol nice one so you start off your rebuttal by insulting my intelligence , sure sign of high IQ right there. Then you go basing your whole argument on saying "I've watched them both play but to me Sharp said the right things in his interviews there for I'll call Sharp a perennial 30 goal scorer and Plekanec a 20 goal scorer (even though he's scored 29 goals and is more of a playmaker anyways). You also do a great job of never addressing the fact that Sharp has the advantage of being on the 2nd line of a very talented Chicago team , while I don't doubt his leadership do you honestly not see your North American bias? I'm Canadian love players that get their nose dirty but honestly I strongly believe the only reason you're calling Plekanec soft is due to him being 5'11 and euro. Coaches don't put players on the PK which they deem "soft" being on the PK demands as much grit as anything as your are constantly
facing the other teams best players...Plekanec is faster/better playmaker and has similar stats on a less offensively productive team with lesser linemates.
Now as I've it said before , I'm not putting down Sharp he is a great player I'd love to have him on my team but to say that he is leaps and bounds better then Plekanec is the understatement of the century and nothing more then a HFboards standard in the category of what has he done for me lately.

Like I've mentioned in previous posts , points don't paint the whole picture but
many would have a hard time choosing between :
A) Speedy/60-70 points , playmaking center/Elite pk specialist.
B) Fairly speedy/65-70 points (25-35G) sniper /solid two way player.

Unfortunately you seem to keep adding this "Canadian intangibles" category
to Sharp that a timid guy like Plekanec cannot compete with (he let's his actions do the talking for him).


Last edited by Avim86: 07-11-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old
07-11-2012, 02:58 PM
  #108
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Get ready for it

Hjarlmasson
Stalberg
Beach
B.Pirri
1st

Plekanec
Tinordi
Conditional 2nd

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Old
07-11-2012, 03:36 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Get ready for it

Hjarlmasson
Stalberg
Beach
B.Pirri
1st

Plekanec
Tinordi
Conditional 2nd
Wow, terrible deal for the Habs.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:07 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by TWOway57 View Post
I don't think this deal will happen. Hjalmarsson is under-rated as well, needs to go back to his pre-suspension way of playing. I think Hjalmarsson might get traded though.

There is no way Sharp is being traded, nor Kane.
Hjalmarsson didn't play any different, still only throws about 50 hits per year and Montreal needs grit in their back end, not a marshmallow.

Not a chance Sharp is ever traded, especially for what is being offered.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:14 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Sharp isn't going anywhere.

I wouldn't be opposed to Hammer + Bolland for Plekanec + (that + being something decent in value that is NHL ready)
I wouldn't be opposed to Emelin and Leblanc for Sharp + either. You know, it is ok to dream such fantasies, less so to post them as actual trades in a public forum.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by elvisisalive View Post
Well if you had any brains in your head, you'd know that stats are only part of the story. using stats only as your argument for anything, makes your point incomplete,at best. Ive watched both play since they have been in the league, and I do like Pleks. I find him too soft for my liking, but thats just a personal thing, Sharp is a leader on the Hawks, possibly next in line to Toews in the dressing room. Ive never heard of Pleks being talked about with the same kind of reverance in that way. So you have a 30+ goal scorer, who is a team leader, can play multiple positions, vrs a 20 goal scorer, who makes his wingers better as his on ice vision is very good. Its the compete level that seperates them. When interviewed about the other team trying to rough up the hawks in a playoff series, his comments were, go ahead let them try, we dont run from anything, (im paraphrasing). i just dont see that kind of leadership or compete level in Pleks
You may want to be less ignorant in the future, nobody was insulting you or your team's players.

I do believe Sharp is better offensively, while giving the nod to Plekanec defensively. Goal scorers are very valuable in this league, and Sharp is a good one. However, Plekanec plays against the opposing team's top lines and still puts up 50-70 points while also playing considerable minutes on the PK. Plekanec is also not soft, and there is no way you have ever watched him more than once or twice if you think he is soft. He is not a hitting type of player, but neither is Sharp. I also doubt you have ever watched Plekanec if you are going to question his compete level. There is no doubting Plekanec's (or Sharp's) compete levels. They are both excellent players, but I truly doubt the point differential between them would be as large as it is if Plekanec ever got to play with players like Sharp has been blessed with in Chicago.

A trade around those players should look something like:

Plekanec, Emelin, 2013 2nd for
Sharp

This takes into account Sharp being better offensively, adds a defenceman along the lines of what your team seems to want, and gives you a decent pick in a supposedly rich draft. The second could be replaced by someone else, but it would be someone close to the value of that pick.

I hope I have written sufficiently clearly to demonstrate that I have brains in my head, something me fellow Habs fan also clearly did.

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07-11-2012, 04:44 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You may want to be less ignorant in the future, nobody was insulting you or your team's players.

I do believe Sharp is better offensively, while giving the nod to Plekanec defensively. Goal scorers are very valuable in this league, and Sharp is a good one. However, Plekanec plays against the opposing team's top lines and still puts up 50-70 points while also playing considerable minutes on the PK. Plekanec is also not soft, and there is no way you have ever watched him more than once or twice if you think he is soft. He is not a hitting type of player, but neither is Sharp. I also doubt you have ever watched Plekanec if you are going to question his compete level. There is no doubting Plekanec's (or Sharp's) compete levels. They are both excellent players, but I truly doubt the point differential between them would be as large as it is if Plekanec ever got to play with players like Sharp has been blessed with in Chicago.

A trade around those players should look something like:

Plekanec, Emelin, 2013 2nd for
Sharp

This takes into account Sharp being better offensively, adds a defenceman along the lines of what your team seems to want, and gives you a decent pick in a supposedly rich draft. The second could be replaced by someone else, but it would be someone close to the value of that pick.

I hope I have written sufficiently clearly to demonstrate that I have brains in my head, something me fellow Habs fan also clearly did.
Why on Earth are the Habs trading their biggest physical presence on the back end (and only one, other than "Bouillon" and Subban), a 2nd rounder AND their best forward for a 31 year old winger who has consistently played with great players every good season he's had?

That's such a sideways, and potentially brutal deal for the Habs.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:57 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Why on Earth are the Habs trading their biggest physical presence on the back end (and only one, other than "Bouillon" and Subban), a 2nd rounder AND their best forward for a 31 year old winger who has consistently played with great players every good season he's had?

That's such a sideways, and potentially brutal deal for the Habs.
Unfortunately you are right if this was NHL 12 your logic would fly but the NHL is like poker, you don't play the cards you play your opponent.
It ends up being who the best negotiator is and if the GM is in a more desperate situation (Players asks for a trade or has an off year).
Managers out there are not looking to move productive players (see sharp) especially if they aren't getting a steal of a deal.

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07-11-2012, 04:58 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
get ready for it




sharp
Hjalmarsson


plekanec
Subban
No No No No and a little bit more of No.
Chicago isn't trading Sharp anytime soon.

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Old
07-11-2012, 05:00 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
Unfortunately you are right if this was NHL 12 your logic would fly but the NHL is like poker, you don't play the cards you play your opponent.
It ends up being who the best negotiator is and if the GM is in a more desperate situation (Players asks for a trade or has an off year).
Managers out there are not looking to move productive players (see sharp) especially if they aren't getting a steal of a deal.
Ummmm no, logic and reasoning work in real life just like they do in NHL 12.

Why would Montreal be desperate? Especially to trade their best center for a winger who is a year older?

But seriously...why would Montreal be desperate?

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07-11-2012, 05:01 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by LoveYouRyanNash View Post
No No No No and a little bit more of No.
Chicago isn't trading Sharp anytime soon.
Hawks aren't trading Sharp, aren't trading Toews, aren't trading Keith, aren't trading Kane, aren't trading Seabrook, aren't trading Saad, aren't trading Teururuurureuiveinen.....


So who exactly are they going to trade if they hope to improve their team?

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07-11-2012, 05:11 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Ummmm no, logic and reasoning work in real life just like they do in NHL 12.

Why would Montreal be desperate? Especially to trade their best center for a winger who is a year older?

But seriously...why would Montreal be desperate?
We need offense but I never said we were lol just saying hypothetically value is never just about player 1 vs player 2 that several things factor in. For example lets say for some reason Galchenyuk impresses at camp and blows up in his rookie year Giroux/Skinner style a top 9
of Galchenyuk /Sharp/pacioretty/cole/eller/gionta bourque/desharnais/prust(maybe Armstrong if he regains form) would be quite competitive.

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07-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #119
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Plekanek for a 1st and a 2nd is fair I think. Yeah it will hurt Montreal, but I think we have a GM who wants to build a winning team for a long time, not just to make the playoff to please fans. Two 1st and three 2nd in 2013 will provide us with all the talent we need to win a cup.

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Old
07-11-2012, 05:37 PM
  #120
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I like the bickering about Sharp. Considering he has a full NMC it makes it even more pointless (and subsequently more entertaining) to see people bicker about him

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Old
07-11-2012, 05:51 PM
  #121
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Plekanec for Hjalmarsson sounds good.

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07-11-2012, 05:55 PM
  #122
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[QUOTE=needle;52440019]Plekanec for Hjalmarsson sounds good.[/QUOTEonly in your dreams *****s

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Old
07-11-2012, 06:03 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to Emelin and Leblanc for Sharp + either. You know, it is ok to dream such fantasies, less so to post them as actual trades in a public forum.
If Emelin and Leblanc were even a fraction of Bolland and Hammer, I could see your point.

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Old
07-11-2012, 06:17 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Hawks aren't trading Sharp, aren't trading Toews, aren't trading Keith, aren't trading Kane, aren't trading Seabrook, aren't trading Saad, aren't trading Teururuurureuiveinen.....


So who exactly are they going to trade if they hope to improve their team?
And how are they going to improve their team if they trade away the best players for slightly inadequate replacements?

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Old
07-11-2012, 06:19 PM
  #125
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And how are they going to improve their team if they trade away the best players for slightly inadequate replacements?
What are the other tradeable assets the Hawks have then?

You gotta give to get...and considering the Hawks' situation prospects make the most sense...and that's a guy like Saad or TT, not guys like Beach, Stalberg, Hjalmarsson, etc.

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