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Free Agency & General Offseason Discussion Thread: Part III - The Brenden Morrow Saga

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:10 AM
  #51
Cujomi
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People confusing us with the Leafs or the Flames need to take a better look at either situation. There's a reason we made the playoffs last year, and also have arguably the best prospect pool in the league. We already have a young core of players; we aren't aging or missing some of the most important aspects of a team (#1 C, #1 D, #1 G.) Unlike the Flames and Toronto we already have the core pieces necessary to build around to make a cup contending team. We also have a cupboard of prospects stocked full of guys that can become good players and have a lot of potential.

The reality, however, is that often prospects don't pan out the way that people hope they will. We can afford to trade a few prospects, while still keeping a large amount of high end potential (as well as safe players) without gutting our team and compromising our future. It will allow the team to grow up in a winning environment and provide leadership and character for the younger guys.

Having Morrow over Zibanejad will make the team better now, and it's highly unlikely that it makes the team worse off in the future given what we already have on the team and coming up. The reason Zibanejad is so often mentioned in trade rumours is because, while he's a great prospect, he's also expendable.

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07-11-2012, 10:14 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Having Morrow over Zibanejad will make the team better now, and it's highly unlikely that it makes the team worse off in the future given what we already have on the team and coming up. The reason Zibanejad is so often mentioned in trade rumours is because, while he's a great prospect, he's also expendable.
Sure, just not for over the hill vets, think Rundblad/Turris trade.


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Old
07-11-2012, 10:19 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
The only advantage Zibanejad would have over Morrow is that he's cheaper and tied up for a longer period of time.
And one is likely getting better while the other is likely getting worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Having Morrow over Zibanejad will make the team better now, and it's highly unlikely that it makes the team worse off in the future given what we already have on the team and coming up. The reason Zibanejad is so often mentioned in trade rumours is because, while he's a great prospect, he's also expendable.
Can't recall Zibanejad being mentioned in trade rumours involving someone of Morrow's caliber or worse coming back as the main piece.

Actually, the only time I've heard the Sens offering Zibanejad is for Rick Nash who is capable of scoring 50 goals.

So yes, CJam, Zibanejad is expendable, if we receive a superstar in return.

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:23 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Sure, just not for over the hill vets, think Rundblad/Turris trade.

That video seems ironic. The Rundblad/Turris trade was a very unique situation. It's not often that you see young players with a ton of talent and potential, who are actually further along in development, holding out the way that Turris did (mostly because they get played when they have his kind of potential.)

To get high end players like that in the prime, or entering the prime, of their careers you would have to start with Zibanejad and add big time (like talking about Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash.) Someone like Morrow likely wouldn't cost Zibanejad anyway, but I'm not convinced that he's over the hill because of one bad season. 33 is still fairly young and he would bring a lot to the team. Plus...how often has Morrow played with a centre of Spezza or even Turris' caliber? I would think a fairly sizeable jump in production could be expected if he stayed healthy.

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07-11-2012, 10:26 AM
  #55
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If I am trading Zibanejad, I am aiming higher than Morrow. Our most pressing need, assuming our top prospects meet but do not surpass expectations, is still a top line forward. Morrow isn't that.

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:37 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
People confusing us with the Leafs or the Flames need to take a better look at either situation. There's a reason we made the playoffs last year, and also have arguably the best prospect pool in the league. We already have a young core of players; we aren't aging or missing some of the most important aspects of a team (#1 C, #1 D, #1 G.) Unlike the Flames and Toronto we already have the core pieces necessary to build around to make a cup contending team. We also have a cupboard of prospects stocked full of guys that can become good players and have a lot of potential.

The reality, however, is that often prospects don't pan out the way that people hope they will. We can afford to trade a few prospects, while still keeping a large amount of high end potential (as well as safe players) without gutting our team and compromising our future. It will allow the team to grow up in a winning environment and provide leadership and character for the younger guys.

Having Morrow over Zibanejad will make the team better now, and it's highly unlikely that it makes the team worse off in the future given what we already have on the team and coming up. The reason Zibanejad is so often mentioned in trade rumours is because, while he's a great prospect, he's also expendable.
dude that's just BS. Go read trent's long post on the 2nd page over and over until it gets carved into your brain.

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07-11-2012, 10:41 AM
  #57
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Are people seriously suggesting we go and get Morrow? Really??

I love summer.

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:52 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by H2O View Post
Those 2 points doesn't add up for me...
Does Burrows have game breaking ability because he scored the GWG against Chicago last year?

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07-11-2012, 10:53 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
There's a reason we made the playoffs last year,
Yes, there is... Paul McLean relied very heavily on his veteran players to make the playoffs.

TOI/G
1) Karlsson
2) F. Kuba 35yo
3) Gonchar 38yo

4) Spezza
5) Michalek
6) Phillips 34yo
7) Alfredsson 39yo


... and don't forget that this list actually starts with 31yo Craig Anderson leading in ice time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
People confusing us with the Leafs or the Flames need to take a better look at either situation.
Yes, we do.

1 --> Bubble team relying heavily on aging vets?
Them = check
Us = check

2 --> Shortsighted moves trading best prospects to attempt to move from bubble team to playoff team?
Them = check
Us (if you had your way) = check

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
and also have arguably the best prospect pool in the league. We already have a young core of players; we aren't aging or missing some of the most important aspects of a team(#1 C, #1 D, #1 G.) Unlike the Flames and Toronto we already have the core pieces necessary to build around to make a cup contending team. We also have a cupboard of prospects stocked full of guys that can become good players and have a lot of potential.
You're overrating where this rebuild is!
Do you remember what Murray did to the team that was supposed to make the playoffs in 2010-11?

All he did was deal away 4 out of 6 guys from the 2nd and 3rd lines, right before he upgraded the goaltending.

Fol/Reg - Fisher - Kovalev
J. Ruutu - C. Kelly - C. Neil

In doing that, he made room for older prospects with significant AHL time (Smith, Greening, Condra, Butler, Daugavins, O'Brien)... most of whom were used in depth roles.

This organization will need to keep it's best forward prospects to figure out who can be capable of playing on the 1st line or leading the 2nd line (because this team looks awfully thin after Spezza & Michalek).


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
The reality, however, is that often prospects don't pan out the way that people hope they will. We can afford to trade a few prospects, while still keeping a large amount of high end potential (as well as safe players) without gutting our team and compromising our future.
Yes, that's why you keep your best prospects in a rebuild and only consider trading depth prospects on your team that would rank much higher in a great team's prospect pool (ie: Vancouver - high finishes = late draft picks = bad prospect pool).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
33 is still fairly young
33 isn't young for a power forward, especially a small one.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by jordan7hm View Post
Does Burrows have game breaking ability because he scored the GWG against Chicago last year?
10-11 & 11-12 against players his own age:
WJC = 6 games, 4 goals
SweJr = 28 games, 12 goals
SweQ = 10 games, 4 goals
Total = 44 games, 20 goals

I don't know if that makes him a 'gamebreaker', but that sure looks like a lot of goals to me.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:21 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by nanuuq View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...NOXp1YlE#gid=0

Number 1 in av Height
Number 3 in av Weight

Last Year
wow. these numbers really, really surprised me. REALLY surprised me. i knew we were a fairly tough team last year, but i'm shocked we were right up there as one of the biggest teams in the league. that will definitely take a hit when we delete kuba and carkner, but man, that surprised me.

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07-11-2012, 11:26 AM
  #62
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one thing that morrow has that foligno never had was that morrow has a history of being an absolutely key, go-to, heart-and-soul, carry-his-team-in-the-playoffs history. he also has an olympic gold. in his prime morrow was a glue guy, a leader, a key cog. foligno i doubt will ever be that. one thing that has always stuck with me about morrow- pierre macguire a couple of years back was talking about how good morrow was playing in the playoffs and how he was discussing it with his good friend scotty bowman. bowman also apparently raved about morrow and said at that point in the playoffs he was clearly the playoff MVP for his team. i think scotty bowman knows a thing or two about winning in the playoffs and about how valuable players are.

now, all that being said, i don't think we should be trading a top prospect for morrow. morrow has a lot of really hard miles on him and taking him on at this stage wouldnt be worth the risk. realistically, we arent that one player away from winning it all and giving up a top prospect to get him for a year doesnt make sense. if dallas were somehow looking to dump him and were willing to take a lesser player or asset i'd consider it, but they won't, so it probably won't happen.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:36 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
If I am trading Zibanejad, I am aiming higher than Morrow. Our most pressing need, assuming our top prospects meet but do not surpass expectations, is still a top line forward. Morrow isn't that.
Absolutely this.

And I'd like to see what we have. I'd deal one out of our top five for the right return but not two unless it was for a signed Weberesque return.

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Old
07-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #64
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I have to agree. For a proven guy like Nash or Ryan, I'd be all for trading Zbad, but not for Brenden Morrow.

Brenden Morrow 6 years ago...sure.

I really don't think Zbad is going to be anything special in the NHL, but if he tops out as a 40 point two way guy, I'll be happy.

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07-11-2012, 01:21 PM
  #65
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i agree johnny. i think we have to watch overhyping this kid. i really think his top end is as a solid, 2-way, 2nd line forward getting 50-60 pts a year.

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07-11-2012, 01:23 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Well no, I wouldn't trade Zibanejad for one year of anyone really. However if he agreed to sign then trade or something that I would do in a heartbeat. He has scored 30 before and I believe if he played with Spezza he'd bring energy, physicality and great defence on top of production.

While I'd prefer Ryan or Doan, Morrow is a good option.
A sign and trade for a 33 year old?



Also, Morrow > Foligno.

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:38 PM
  #67
Cujomi
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i agree johnny. i think we have to watch overhyping this kid. i really think his top end is as a solid, 2-way, 2nd line forward getting 50-60 pts a year.
Yeah and there's no guarantee he reaches his top end. I've thought since the draft that we reached with him...would have much preferred someone like Couturier or Hamilton since we were unable to trade up for Landeskog or Strome.

With that said, he could become a valuable player for us. I never even suggested trading for Morrow in the first place -- just pointing out that he'd be valuable on our team and would likely produce enough if he were playing with Spezza or Turris (which he most likely would) to offset whatever we gave up to get him. I don't think he's even being traded.

trent our situation is nothing like Toronto's or Calgary's. Neither of them have the young talent we have. Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek, Turris, Cowen, Methot, Anderson (dunno how 31 makes him aging...as though he's old or something), Bishop and bottom 6 we have great young guys like Smith, Greening and co. Guys like Silfverberg, Noesen, Stone, Da Costa and maybe Hoffman look like they could make the jump this year. On top of this we have a ton of prospects. The situations are completely different -- namely having a superstar #1 centre and one of the best young defencemen in the league. We already have the pieces to build around AND prospects. Calgary and Toronto were old, devoid of prospects and are moving laterally. Ottawa is pretty much the opposite.

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07-11-2012, 02:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Yeah and there's no guarantee he reaches his top end. I've thought since the draft that we reached with him...would have much preferred someone like Couturier or Hamilton since we were unable to trade up for Landeskog or Strome.

With that said, he could become a valuable player for us. I never even suggested trading for Morrow in the first place -- just pointing out that he'd be valuable on our team and would likely produce enough if he were playing with Spezza or Turris (which he most likely would) to offset whatever we gave up to get him. I don't think he's even being traded.

trent our situation is nothing like Toronto's or Calgary's. Neither of them have the young talent we have. Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek, Turris, Cowen, Methot, Anderson (dunno how 31 makes him aging...as though he's old or something), Bishop and bottom 6 we have great young guys like Smith, Greening and co. Guys like Silfverberg, Noesen, Stone, Da Costa and maybe Hoffman look like they could make the jump this year. On top of this we have a ton of prospects. The situations are completely different -- namely having a superstar #1 centre and one of the best young defencemen in the league. We already have the pieces to build around AND prospects. Calgary and Toronto were old, devoid of prospects and are moving laterally. Ottawa is pretty much the opposite.
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Old
07-11-2012, 04:02 PM
  #69
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I honnestly have no interest in trading our prospect depth for Morrow. I'm satisfied with how the rebuild is goint we're storing up the cupboards adn we have drafted decently the past 2 years I beleive.

Why not givee Peter Mueller a 1-2 year try...? he should be a low risk high reward type of free agent and he's still young enough (depending on the singing price of course).

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07-11-2012, 04:45 PM
  #70
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Rundblad is better though.

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07-11-2012, 05:20 PM
  #71
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wow. these numbers really, really surprised me. REALLY surprised me. i knew we were a fairly tough team last year, but i'm shocked we were right up there as one of the biggest teams in the league. that will definitely take a hit when we delete kuba and carkner, but man, that surprised me.
Well Methot is 6'3 225 pounds and Latendresse is 6'2 230 pounds so it might stay the same. Boro isn't small either and if we add a guy like Zibanejad/Ceci/Wier/ Gryba etc etc we will stay a big team don't worry

Murray is all about skill/size wich is fine by me

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07-11-2012, 05:45 PM
  #72
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Rundblad is better though.
Both of them are peewee compared to Strome though.

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07-11-2012, 06:35 PM
  #73
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Both of them are peewee compared to Strome though.
Subban is better than both of them combined

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07-11-2012, 06:56 PM
  #74
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Both of them are peewee compared to Strome though.
Tovie > Strome

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Old
07-11-2012, 07:37 PM
  #75
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Tovie > Strome
Skinner > Spezza tho

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