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Free Agent Frenzy (Part IX): Generic Thread Title Edition

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Old
07-11-2012, 08:24 PM
  #951
Edge
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Could we stop comparing Nash to other players and whether we agree to a deal or not, admit he's a great but not elite talent
I think he's an elite goal scorer. With that said, he's a very good all-around offensive player.

In other words, he's not going to put up 40 assists to go along with his goals.

But from a goal scoring standpoint, he's one of the top 10 goal scoring talents in the league.

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07-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #952
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I think another point is, which makes more of an offensive impact on this team?

An elite PP triggerman(Weber for example)

or

a top 6 forward like Nash?

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07-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think he's an elite goal scorer. With that said, he's a very good all-around offensive player.

In other words, he's not going to put up 40 assists to go along with his goals.

But from a goal scoring standpoint, he's one of the top 10 goal scoring talents in the league.
which truth be told, is what we need

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07-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
When you already have a dismal offense and are now losing pretty much the only glimmer of hope your offense had, then it might be time to take a risk.

Semin is just sitting there rotting.
But isn't it also safe to assume that Semin might not be a matter of talent, but rather he might be looking for a very specific contract?

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07-11-2012, 08:26 PM
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I think another point is, which makes more of an offensive impact on this team?

An elite PP triggerman(Weber for example)

or

a top 6 forward like Nash?
Weber would cost more than nash

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07-11-2012, 08:26 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Same offense as last year only without, you know, our leading goal and point scorer. Who needs him right?
And what should Sather do about it? There are only two surefire top six guys available - Semin and Nash. Semin may not be the best fit for this team and has several other suitors bidding for his services. Nash will cost us assets we probably don't want to give up. Doan is no guarantee to play at a top six level. I don't trust any forward over 35 to produce at that rate, and even if he does next season is there any doubt his production will begin to fall off at some point?

So what's the solution? Pray Kreider can step in and immediately produce at a 60 point pace? Look for another trading partner, such as Anaheim or Dallas?

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07-11-2012, 08:26 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think he means Marleau, Heatley, Clowe, Setoguchi, Murray, Knuble, Rolston, Guerin, Samsonov, Kristich and others at various points of his career.

And for the record, I think Thornton is more talented than Nash. I just don't think the argument that Thornton hasn't had some pretty darn good wingers is a good one.
Exactly...As for more talented, I think Thornton see's the ice better, might make a better decision, but no way he skates better, or has a better shot.

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07-11-2012, 08:27 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Weber would cost more than nash
But we may be in a better position/better assets to trade for a Weber than we would with Nash. Just throwing it out there.

Its not necessarily Weber btw.

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07-11-2012, 08:28 PM
  #959
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So would anyone do mdz for oshie and move stepan + dubi for Nash? Someone mentioned it in my value of mdz thread on main board

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07-11-2012, 08:29 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I think another point is, which makes more of an offensive impact on this team?

An elite PP triggerman(Weber for example)

or

a top 6 forward like Nash?
It's close. With Gaborik hurt and a real lack of scoring options, Nash might have a slightly greater impact than Weber.

With that said, if Dubinsky scores 25 goals, Gaborik comes back on fire and certain guys provide even just a few more goals than last season, Weber might be a better final piece move.

Really, you're playing the odds - are certain guys better offensive players than they showed last vs. are they not.

If you lean towards the latter, Nash is probably the guy with the slight edge.

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07-11-2012, 08:31 PM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
But isn't it also safe to assume that Semin might not be a matter of talent, but rather he might be looking for a very specific contract?
Yup in this market he's gonna get a ridiculous deal

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07-11-2012, 08:31 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think he's an elite goal scorer. With that said, he's a very good all-around offensive player.

In other words, he's not going to put up 40 assists to go along with his goals.

But from a goal scoring standpoint, he's one of the top 10 goal scoring talents in the league.
Your entitled to your opinion, but in my mind to be a top 10 goal scoring talent you need to consistently, be in the top 10 in goals, Nash is not. There are over 15 players who have been on it multiple times since the lockout, Nash is not one of those only making the list once.

consistent yes, durable yes, very good yes, great or elite no. Atleast that is how I judge elite, but your entitled to your method

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07-11-2012, 08:31 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Exactly...As for more talented, I think Thornton see's the ice better, might make a better decision, but no way he skates better, or has a better shot.
It's hard because they are very different players.

If I was looking at which one fits the Rangers needs better, i'd say Nash without hesitation.

If I were a team like Edmonton, I'd take Thornton because I already have my share of goal scorers (or potential goal scorers).

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07-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #964
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Jim Cerny said that the Rangers are actively working the phones: not just Nash.

Hopefully we improve our offense by the time the season starts.

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07-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by jskramer83 View Post
Your entitled to your opinion, but in my mind to be a top 10 goal scoring talent you need to consistently, be in the top 10 in goals, Nash is not. There are over 15 players who have been on it multiple times since the lockout, Nash is not one of those only making the list once.

consistent yes, durable yes, very good yes, great or elite no. Atleast that is how I judge elite, but your entitled to your method
Normally, I'd tend to agree with you. But Columbus has been such a train wreck, for so long, I think it changes things a little.

It's like what happened to Brian Leetch during the Rangers down years. I don't think he suddenly lost his elite talent at the age of 29, I think he played on some pretty crappy teams that effectively killed his style of play. If it can happen to an all-time great like Leetch, it's going to have an even bigger effect on a guy like Nash.

I think there are a lot of guys who are better all-around offensive players than Nash. But from a pure goal scoring standpoint, I think we seriously undervalue the number of consecutive 30 goal seasons he's produced playing with essentially no one.

I don't think the results have been elite, but I do believe the talent is.

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07-11-2012, 08:37 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Jim Cerny said that the Rangers are actively working the phones: not just Nash.

Hopefully we improve our offense by the time the season starts.
I cant wait when this is over. I fully expect a deal and not Nash. If I was Sather I would look to keep the top prospects and see what Dubinsky and Anisimov can bring in.

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07-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Jim Cerny said that the Rangers are actively working the phones: not just Nash.

Hopefully we improve our offense by the time the season starts.
Let's see if slats can improve the scoring like he said was his goal

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07-11-2012, 08:39 PM
  #968
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Semin isn't the best option, but people dismiss him as if we have options. If we don't somehow produce more offense we're in for a major step back. That would be a shame after last year.

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07-11-2012, 08:40 PM
  #969
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If the Rangers are looking to bring in another top 6 winger other than Nash/Ryan. The only guy I can think of, that is a major impact player, is Evander Kane.

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07-11-2012, 08:40 PM
  #970
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Nash will thrive here. It needs to happen.

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07-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Normally, I'd tend to agree with you. But Columbus has been such a train wreck, for so long, I think it changes things a little.

It's like what happened to Brian Leetch during the Rangers down years. I don't think he suddenly lost his elite talent at the age of 29, I think he played on some pretty crappy teams that effectively killed his style of play. If it can happen to an all-time great like Leetch, it's going to have an even bigger effect on a guy like Nash.

I think there are a lot of guys who are better all-around offensive players than Nash. But from a pure goal scoring standpoint, I think we seriously undervalue the number of consecutive 30 goal seasons he's produced playing with essentially no one.

I don't think the results have been elite, but I do believe the talent is.
Well Leetch did start losing his legs during the mid 90's. His decline in mobility really hurt his defensive game.

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07-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
And what should Sather do about it? There are only two surefire top six guys available - Semin and Nash. Semin may not be the best fit for this team and has several other suitors bidding for his services. Nash will cost us assets we probably don't want to give up. Doan is no guarantee to play at a top six level. I don't trust any forward over 35 to produce at that rate, and even if he does next season is there any doubt his production will begin to fall off at some point?

So what's the solution? Pray Kreider can step in and immediately produce at a 60 point pace? Look for another trading partner, such as Anaheim or Dallas?
The two you mentioned are top line forwards, there are plenty of decent second liners available;

Doan is a 1st liner, Kostitsyn is a second line talent, sykora scored 20 goals, Mueller is a good second liner, Huselius if healthy is a second liner, hell worst case take a two contract shot at Cheecho

We adding a Top 3 talent is not a must. Adding a low top 6, 20 goal or 40 point talent to put on our third line would make a huge difference in our scoring from last year, and a big upgrade over boyle or Mitchell on the third line? This is what adding scoring depth means I think, putting a second line talent on our third line


Last edited by jskramer83: 07-11-2012 at 08:47 PM.
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07-11-2012, 08:44 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Nash will thrive here. It needs to happen.
At what price though?

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07-11-2012, 08:44 PM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Semin isn't the best option, but people dismiss him as if we have options. If we don't somehow produce more offense we're in for a major step back. That would be a shame after last year.
I think we have to be careful not to feel forced into an option, because other ones have dried up.

I've gotten the sense, in talking to different people, that Semin's interest in the NHL is not entirely reassuring. So in the end, the reason he hasn't landed anywhere, despite his obvious talents, might have more to do with his own desires rather than 30 teams dismissing him.

As for me personally, I'm not really a fan. I find him to be a floater, invisible for crucial times during a game and really not a guy who makes this team any more primed to win a championship. He may help win a few additional regular season games, but I don't see him as such a great option that I'd commit to him and not see if something better presents itself during the season.

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07-11-2012, 08:45 PM
  #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Nash will thrive here. It needs to happen.
Wish I had your confidence, what in particular makes you so sure?

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