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Pierre Gauthier named Director of Personnel of the Chicago Black Hawks

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07-11-2012, 08:16 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
How much input did Scotty have btw? You'd have a point if he was actually hired as a GM...rather than being DEMOTED!
scotty ,stan,dale tallon.etc...what does it matter?as if anyone on here has any credentials in the nhl.lmao.you guys should apply for the next gm post that becomes available.its well known that some great talent exists on hf boards.

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07-11-2012, 08:20 PM
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He wasn't terrible, but he wasn't a leader. I dislike him for not being a leader for the organization. I never believed in his vision. I can basically do status quo for 2 years and many will say "look at that, LL kept all our good young players, let timmins do the draft and made no mistakes" okay and? What have I accomplished? I'm not saying thats what he did, but i'm judging the GM by the direction we're going in. I never felt we had any under him. So, yes, he's not perfect but he's not the devil either, but he's just not GM material.
In terms of direction, I think he wanted us to get bigger, he went after Cole, it was his argument for trading Bourque/Cammy on top of creating some room. He also wanted to make our back end a lot more mobile. He gambled on Markov being the integral part of it, along with PK, and to be honest, I'd have taken the same gamble 10 times out of 10. What I feel he underestimated was the presence of Hamrlik, but I think he thought Spacek would fill it up (which is what I also thought when Gainey/Gauthier signed him a year past Hammer's contract).
I think a lot of people made up their opinions on Gauthier without really knowing much about all the decisions he's taken. I can't really blame them because Gauthier never really spent much time expressing his ideas, but I think there was a lot more thought process into his decisions than people think.

I blamed him this year for re-signing Gill over Hammer, the firing of Martin, the placement of RC, and then getting rid of Cammy/AK, but I don't think he had done a bad job previously.

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07-11-2012, 08:21 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
scotty ,stan,dale tallon.etc...what does it matter?as if anyone on here has any credentials in the nhl.lmao.you guys should apply for the next gm post that becomes available.its well known that some great talent exists on hf boards.
Best of luck in your new position, Pierre.

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07-11-2012, 08:22 PM
  #179
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I agree that there's no point in going into extremes.

I disagree that he did an overall poor job. Average might be more like it.
Keeping Price, signing Cole, re-signing Markov, bringing Emelin over, signing Diaz, finding replacements for Markov in Wiz, re-signing Gorges, I mean, he did some good things. He did a poor job in terms of PR, though, that I'll agree with 100%.

As for him getting re-hired, yes, it doesn't prove much. But what some are saying is that he was such a clueless clown and an absolute poison that there's just no way in hell he gets re-hired. So him getting re-hired just proves *those people* were wrong
No, Gauthier was not average. Finishing in last place is not average. It is major failure and below average.

What some people are glossing over and conveniently ignoring is the word accountability. Regardless of what overused excuse is thrown out, in the end, the GM is accountable for the results of the team in the PRESENT SEASON. The Habs were last in the East. That is not average. Gauthier failed to move the Habs forward. And for that, he was fired.

The other disingenuous argument the Gauthier fans throw out is all of the players in development in the Habs system. Guess what. Every team has players in development in their systems. UNTIL they are actually performing in the NHL, they cannot be called anything else but prospects. Wishful thinking and hoping for the best is not reality.

Not average. Below average and Chicago will soon make that discovery the hard way if they give him increasing responsibilities.

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07-11-2012, 08:24 PM
  #180
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No, Gauthier was not average. Finishing in last place is not average. It is major failure and below average.

What some people are glossing over and conveniently ignoring is the word accountability. Regardless of what overused excuse is thrown out, in the end, the GM is accountable for the results of the team in the PRESENT SEASON. The Habs were last in the East. That is not average. Gauthier failed to move the Habs forward. And for that, he was fired.

The other disingenuous argument the Gauthier fans throw out is all of the players in development in the Habs system. Guess what. Every team has players in development in their systems. UNTIL they are actually performing in the NHL, they cannot be called anything else but prospects. Wishful thinking and hoping for the best is not reality.

Not average. Below average and Chicago will soon make that discovery the hard way if they give him increasing responsibilities.

that's the point.gauthier can be solid when used in the right role.as a gm?no.but he can be used in other departments.

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07-11-2012, 08:27 PM
  #181
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No, Gauthier was not average. Finishing in last place is not average. It is major failure and below average.
I'm sorry, but it really isn't as simple as that. I mean, I don't have to mention the Flyers do I?
They finished dead last one year as well, and back as a contender next year. They didn't finish last because they majorly failed and were below average.
Now, we're not a contender, but, just like Philly, had we not suffered these key injuries, we'd have had a much better year. Matter of fact, if we look at how Martin had redirected our team after the cold start, keeping Martin alone would have improved our record.

But we all know how much respect you have for Martin/Gauthier. So I don't expect you to give them any type of positive recognition.

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07-11-2012, 08:27 PM
  #182
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scotty bowman is a legend.arguably the greatest hockey mind ever.i'm sure you are in the the same class as him.people who post they re thoughts on internet forums are very well respected in the nhl. aren't they?
You ignored my question and that Gauthier good a lesser role than here.

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07-11-2012, 08:29 PM
  #183
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He got us Galchenyuk, credit needs to be given where it's due. Interesting they decided to use his shrewd talents in a non scouting manner.



Not sure if you are serious or are sarcastically joking.

Very few GMs and teams play for a higher first round draft pick (most are trying to get into the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup) and when they get it, they slap themselves on the back and congratulate each other on their success.

But.........I do believe there is a segment of the fanbase here that holds on to that thought process.

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07-11-2012, 08:32 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
In terms of direction, I think he wanted us to get bigger, he went after Cole, it was his argument for trading Bourque/Cammy on top of creating some room. He also wanted to make our back end a lot more mobile. He gambled on Markov being the integral part of it, along with PK, and to be honest, I'd have taken the same gamble 10 times out of 10. What I feel he underestimated was the presence of Hamrlik, but I think he thought Spacek would fill it up (which is what I also thought when Gainey/Gauthier signed him a year past Hammer's contract).
I think a lot of people made up their opinions on Gauthier without really knowing much about all the decisions he's taken. I can't really blame them because Gauthier never really spent much time expressing his ideas, but I think there was a lot more thought process into his decisions than people think.

I blamed him this year for re-signing Gill over Hammer, the firing of Martin, the placement of RC, and then getting rid of Cammy/AK, but I don't think he had done a bad job previously.
I would've felt more comfortable trading spacek for Martin or Michalek rather than kaberle. Habs need a top 4 two-way D or Hamrlik like presence, not a kaberle. I don't see how this helps us.

I'm on this board and follow the habs more than I should, I know his moves, and he just wasn't heading anywhere. We traded cammy, fine, but the return was stupid. Sure, bourque is a talented player with size himself, but not having a good year and honestly cammy was our best offensive forward, its a good deal if bourque looks somewhat inspired here but man, while I understand a trade needed to be made, why not a better one? sure, we got a 2nd and holland, but I'd rather less but more quality. Cammy was a top notch playoff sniper and we got average bourque. Not bashing bourque or even having him, just felt a better return could be made there.

This whole year was a disaster, from PR to on ice performance. He can't lead, he just can't.

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07-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I agree that there's no point in going into extremes.

I disagree that he did an overall poor job. Average might be more like it.
Keeping Price, signing Cole, re-signing Markov, bringing Emelin over, signing Diaz, finding replacements for Markov in Wiz, re-signing Gorges, I mean, he did some good things. He did a poor job in terms of PR, though, that I'll agree with 100%.

As for him getting re-hired, yes, it doesn't prove much. But what some are saying is that he was such a clueless clown and an absolute poison that there's just no way in hell he gets re-hired. So him getting re-hired just proves *those people* were wrong
There is mothing average about presiding over the clusterf*** that led to one of the worst seasons in habs history.

Sure, he made some positive moves, but overall, if his tenure and the on-ice & roster situation he left with aren't "poor", then average has sunken to a very dismal level.

Lottery picking isnt average... Nor is adding the kaberle/Bourque contracts to a team with Gomez already flushing away such a big chunk.

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07-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #186
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Only on HF Boards does Gauthier joining the Blackhawks get more than 2 pages. LOL

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07-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm sorry, but it really isn't as simple as that. I mean, I don't have to mention the Flyers do I?
They finished dead last one year as well, and back as a contender next year. They didn't finish last because they majorly failed and were below average.
Now, we're not a contender, but, just like Philly, had we not suffered these key injuries, we'd have had a much better year. Matter of fact, if we look at how Martin had redirected our team after the cold start, keeping Martin alone would have improved our record.

But we all know how much respect you have for Martin/Gauthier. So I don't expect you to give them any type of positive recognition.
No, I do not have one bit of respect for either. They wasted three years of Canadiens hockey. Wasted. And it will take time to undo the damage that was inflicted on this franchise.

Add the years when Gauthier was advising Gainey and you can add to those three disastrous and wasted years.

No, no respect at all. **** Gauthier and **** Martin both.

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07-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
He got us Galchenyuk, credit needs to be given where it's due. Interesting they decided to use his shrewd talents in a non scouting manner.
Time will tell, but unless Eller exceeds expectations in a major way, the 2012 draft (and our high standing in it) has a very very good chance of being his most positive impact on the franchise.

Gauthier was masterful at driving the "tank" last year... Credit where credit is due!

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07-11-2012, 08:44 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You ignored my question and that Gauthier good a lesser role than here.
i'll answer you re question.and then you'll answer mine.no i didnt want mcquire,but if we woulda hired him i would have accepted it and moved on.now my question.do you think you know as much about hockey as scott bowman??i'll make it easier.do you think you know more about hockey than the worst gm in the nhl??

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07-11-2012, 08:46 PM
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Why does this dude keep bringing up Scotty Bowman? And was Gauthier hired to be Chicago's GM? I'm confused.

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07-11-2012, 08:49 PM
  #191
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There is mothing average about presiding over the clusterf*** that led to one of the worst seasons in habs history.

Sure, he made some positive moves, but overall, if his tenure and the on-ice & roster situation he left with aren't "poor", then average has sunken to a very dismal level.

Lottery picking isnt average... Nor is adding the kaberle/Bourque contracts to a team with Gomez already flushing away such a big chunk.
You are judging his three years based on one season and one alone, like most people.

I've said it many times, he completely lost it last year. Not sure what happened exactly, maybe he got some pressure from upstairs, maybe he felt Molson was envisioning a change and felt that early on, who knows really.

But I'm not going to judge a three year presence as GM focusing on the one year where everything simply collapsed. Doesn't seem like a fair assessment to me.

And I think us finishing last has more to do with replacing Martin with RC than the actual roster moves.

Lottery picking means nothing other than finishing in the bottom 5. There can be various explanations as to why that happened. You can have a top pick thanks to a trade like Boston/Toronto, you can have one due to an off year because of injuries like the Flyers, you can have one due to injuries + bad coaching change like us last year imo, and you can have one because the team is just flat out horrible.

I don't think we had a horrible team at the beginning of last season.

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07-11-2012, 08:49 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Why does this dude keep bringing up Scotty Bowman? And was Gauthier hired to be Chicago's GM? I'm confused.
Yep. He read Mike8's post stating that we were not GMs so we do not know anything at all about hockey. So now he repeats that on every post. Every post.........

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07-11-2012, 08:51 PM
  #193
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i'll answer you re question.and then you'll answer mine.no i didnt want mcquire,but if we woulda hired him i would have accepted it and moved on.now my question.do you think you know as much about hockey as scott bowman??i'll make it easier.do you think you know more about hockey than the worst gm in the nhl??
No, i'm not in good as hockey as them. Thing is, I still know the difference between a GM and a director of player development.

I mean, to think, Scott Mellanby is director of player development. Take that rest of the league, thats right, he's like a GM or something you know, because it's equivalent apparently.

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07-11-2012, 08:52 PM
  #194
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You are judging his three years based on one season and one alone, like most people.

I've said it many times, he completely lost it last year. Not sure what happened exactly, maybe he got some pressure from upstairs, maybe he felt Molson was envisioning a change and felt that early on, who knows really.

But I'm not going to judge a three year presence as GM focusing on the one year where everything simply collapsed. Doesn't seem like a fair assessment to me.

And I think us finishing last has more to do with replacing Martin with RC than the actual roster moves.

Lottery picking means nothing other than finishing in the bottom 5. There can be various explanations as to why that happened. You can have a top pick thanks to a trade like Boston/Toronto, you can have one due to an off year because of injuries like the Flyers, you can have one due to injuries + bad coaching change like us last year imo, and you can have one because the team is just flat out horrible.

I don't think we had a horrible team at the beginning of last season.
You really thought that having Diaz, Emelin, Weber, Campoli, Gill and Spacek was a good way to start the season on D? With Markov injured?

And Palushaj/Engqvist/Darche/Leblanc on the 4th line was OK?

Its not a single year. It is about the trends. The Habs were trending downward each year under Gauthier.

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07-11-2012, 08:52 PM
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I would've felt more comfortable trading spacek for Martin or Michalek rather than kaberle. Habs need a top 4 two-way D or Hamrlik like presence, not a kaberle. I don't see how this helps us.

I'm on this board and follow the habs more than I should, I know his moves, and he just wasn't heading anywhere. We traded cammy, fine, but the return was stupid. Sure, bourque is a talented player with size himself, but not having a good year and honestly cammy was our best offensive forward, its a good deal if bourque looks somewhat inspired here but man, while I understand a trade needed to be made, why not a better one? sure, we got a 2nd and holland, but I'd rather less but more quality. Cammy was a top notch playoff sniper and we got average bourque. Not bashing bourque or even having him, just felt a better return could be made there.

This whole year was a disaster, from PR to on ice performance. He can't lead, he just can't.
I think he proved himself unworthy of leading last year. I don't care much about the PR side to be honest. I don't need the GM to conduct a million interviews and express his views constantly. It's nice if it happens, but I don't need it.
Like I said, I thought he was doing a decent job, but completely lost it last year for unknown reasons.

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07-11-2012, 08:53 PM
  #196
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I think he proved himself unworthy of leading last year. I don't care much about the PR side to be honest. I don't need the GM to conduct a million interviews and express his views constantly. It's nice if it happens, but I don't need it.
Like I said, I thought he was doing a decent job, but completely lost it last year for unknown reasons.
I meant PR as in Cunneyworth, mid game trades, morning firings. It was just a circus.

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07-11-2012, 08:54 PM
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No, I do not have one bit of respect for either. They wasted three years of Canadiens hockey. Wasted. And it will take time to undo the damage that was inflicted on this franchise.

Add the years when Gauthier was advising Gainey and you can add to those three disastrous and wasted years.

No, no respect at all. **** Gauthier and **** Martin both.
What you're saying makes no sense.

When Gauthier took over he had a team saddled with a bunch of long-term contracts to veteran players like Markov, Spacek, Hamrlik, Gill, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gomez, AK and Plekanec.

That's around $40 million, what else was he supposed to do but to do but what he did.

He let the veterans play and they did what they did.

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07-11-2012, 08:57 PM
  #198
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What you're saying makes no sense.

When Gauthier took over he had a team saddled with a bunch of long-term contracts to veteran players like Markov, Spacek, Hamrlik, Gill, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gomez, AK and Plekanec.

That's around $40 million, what else was he supposed to do but to do but what he did.

He let the veterans play and they did what they did.
He re-signed Gill, traded Spacek for an even longer contract, didn't extend Hamr, traded Cammy for a player with a longer contract, offered Markov a contract...dumped AK... WHAT? You act as if his hands were tied. The guy did a lot of moves/non-moves...some decent....some awful.

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07-11-2012, 08:59 PM
  #199
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Gauthier ruined this team. People defending him need to remember that.

But this just shows you that with the right connections anyone gets a job in this league.

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07-11-2012, 09:00 PM
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What you're saying makes no sense.

When Gauthier took over he had a team saddled with a bunch of long-term contracts to veteran players like Markov, Spacek, Hamrlik, Gill, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gomez, AK and Plekanec.

That's around $40 million, what else was he supposed to do but to do but what he did.

He let the veterans play and they did what they did.
In a vacuum, what you just said is true.

However, we do not live in a vacuum nor do the Canadiens or any NHL team operate in a vacuum.

Gauthier was an assistant GM since 2006 in Montreal and the Director of PROFESSIONAL SCOUTING since 2003. Unless he was the first assistant GM to remain completely silent, he had a hand in all of those contracts that you mentioned.

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