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Pierre Gauthier named Director of Personnel of the Chicago Black Hawks

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Old
07-11-2012, 09:06 PM
  #201
OneSharpMarble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Nah, he's pretty much always defending the guy.
When you and your ilk (habaneros, southernhab, hockeyfan2011, agnnostic) have an actual problem with this guy that goes deeper than "hes a vegan who doesn't communicate well!!!" I will take you seriously and maybe see your side. Until then I will keep saying what I said all along and that is he made the right moves, even if they weren't the popular ones.

Looking at the group ripping on gauthier I feel like I am on the common sense side of the argument.

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07-11-2012, 09:06 PM
  #202
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You really thought that having Diaz, Emelin, Weber, Campoli, Gill and Spacek was a good way to start the season on D? With Markov injured?

And Palushaj/Engqvist/Darche/Leblanc on the 4th line was OK?

Its not a single year. It is about the trends. The Habs were trending downward each year under Gauthier.

No they weren't. But we already discussed this.
I'm gonna say Mtl finished 8th in the reg. season the first year, then finished 6th the following year despite numerous injuries both years, and the team played much better in the 2nd year. Then you will say we went in the ECF in the first year, then got eliminated in the 1st round the following season.

Not gonna waste time going over this again.

And no, I don't think it was a great idea to start the year with Diaz, Emelin, Weber, on D, or Engqvist up front, but he decided to give a try to the youngsters.
Didn't like the Campoli signing, didn't like re-signing Gill.

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07-11-2012, 09:06 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
When you and your ilk (habaneros, southernhab, hockeyfan2011, agnnostic) have an actual problem with this guy that goes deeper than "hes a vegan who doesn't communicate well!!!" I will take you seriously and maybe see your side. Until then I will keep saying what I said all along and that is he made the right moves, even if they weren't the popular ones.

Looking at the group ripping on gauthier I feel like I am on the common sense side of the argument.
I never said he was vegan...I honestly don't care.

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07-11-2012, 09:10 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
When you and your ilk (habaneros, southernhab, hockeyfan2011, agnnostic) have an actual problem with this guy that goes deeper than "hes a vegan who doesn't communicate well!!!" I will take you seriously and maybe see your side. Until then I will keep saying what I said all along and that is he made the right moves, even if they weren't the popular ones.

Looking at the group ripping on gauthier I feel like I am on the common sense side of the argument.
Last place finishes trump vegetarianism every single time.

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07-11-2012, 09:12 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I meant PR as in Cunneyworth, mid game trades, morning firings. It was just a circus.
I didn't like RC because he was a bad coach, the media mess it created was generated by a bunch of complete morons. I actually applaud that management decided to hire someone that isn't french, it's just too bad it wasn't the right guy.
Morning firings is just poor timing, and mid game trades are weird, but I think people make it into a bigger thing than it is.
If you trade a player during a game, and the other GM wants him pulled for no risk of injuries, so be it, I don't really see the big deal. Unconventional, but really, doesn't change much to me.

I think the ''I just traded you, but I can't tell you where now'' ways are what was bad for me.

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07-11-2012, 10:00 PM
  #206
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- Replenished the farm immensly. Galchenyuk, Thrower, Collberg, Holland are all direct results of his moves.
- Kept our core together and didn't move a prospect or pick even thought the pressure to compete was high.
- Picked up Cole who not only turned Pacioretty into the man he is today but has helped Desharnais and become a role model on this team. I can't stress enough how important Cole could be for our youth including players like Eller, Galchenyuk, Collberg etc.

He could have desperatly traded away picks/prospects in order to try and get into the playoffs. This would have been folly. The man knew we were done, he dumped martin who was hurting the team, he dumped floaters, he acquired picks and he has now given Bergevin a great place to start. Young team with strong farm and Bergevin got to build his own managment team.

You want to whine about Markov or Kaberle? Markov still plays like a top pairing dman and Kaberle could easily pot 40-50 points this season and be traded for a late 1st pick if we fail to make the post. Is this how he "destroyed" this team?

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07-11-2012, 10:05 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post


Not sure if you are serious or are sarcastically joking.

Very few GMs and teams play for a higher first round draft pick (most are trying to get into the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup) and when they get it, they slap themselves on the back and congratulate each other on their success.

But.........I do believe there is a segment of the fanbase here that holds on to that thought process.
I'm always serious. Are you serious? Because clearly, this is serious business.

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07-11-2012, 10:37 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
No, i'm not in good as hockey as them. Thing is, I still know the difference between a GM and a director of player development.

I mean, to think, Scott Mellanby is director of player development. Take that rest of the league, thats right, he's like a GM or something you know, because it's equivalent apparently.
not as good in hockey as them???lol.nice .all of us on here combined are nowhere near that calibre.so lets move on.good luck gauthier.

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07-11-2012, 10:39 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Why does this dude keep bringing up Scotty Bowman? And was Gauthier hired to be Chicago's GM? I'm confused.
cause this dude can separate fantasy from reality. and you 're probly confused cause i shut you up.

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07-11-2012, 11:04 PM
  #210
hockeyfan2k11
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cause this dude can separate fantasy from reality. and you 're probly confused cause i shut you up.
Lets try this again:

HF2k11 says: "Gauthier was a horrible GM"
haburger says: "Well you're wrong because The Blackhawks just hired him as head of player development. I shutz youz upzzz wooooooooooooooooo!!!!"

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07-11-2012, 11:11 PM
  #211
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He wasn't abysmal but he didn't do very well, led us to weak finish this year.
He made some decent moves (price/halak, signing Cole, tinordi etc) but it was outweighed by Signing Campoli, taking a cap dump in Kaberle, Gomez trade(however much he was apart of it) and what we got for Cammy(Holland and the second are nice, but why Bourque?)

I'm glad we have moved on though.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:20 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
not as good in hockey as them???lol.nice .all of us on here combined are nowhere near that calibre.so lets move on.good luck gauthier.
By that I assume you'll be never posting again. Nice knowing you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
- Replenished the farm immensly. Galchenyuk, Thrower, Collberg, Holland are all direct results of his moves.
- Kept our core together and didn't move a prospect or pick even thought the pressure to compete was high.
- Picked up Cole who not only turned Pacioretty into the man he is today but has helped Desharnais and become a role model on this team. I can't stress enough how important Cole could be for our youth including players like Eller, Galchenyuk, Collberg etc.

He could have desperatly traded away picks/prospects in order to try and get into the playoffs. This would have been folly. The man knew we were done, he dumped martin who was hurting the team, he dumped floaters, he acquired picks and he has now given Bergevin a great place to start. Young team with strong farm and Bergevin got to build his own managment team.

You want to whine about Markov or Kaberle? Markov still plays like a top pairing dman and Kaberle could easily pot 40-50 points this season and be traded for a late 1st pick if we fail to make the post. Is this how he "destroyed" this team?
Bold: his moves resulted in us finishing 3rd last? Solid.

-Pressure to compete? The guy took on a salary we didn't need and we were dead last in conference half the year, what pressure to compete?

-Cole is awesome, no denying that but I'd point out Cole didn't help Desharnais as much as you suggest. When Cole was paired with a playmaker they ended up working out together and then Cole started producing on route to a career high.

-Why do you keep saying this? Why would he attempt to get us in? I assume you know at least basic math skills. I knew we were finished long before the deadline, if he didn't and it was a tough choice then I'm glad he's gone. Obviously, he knows basic math, so this argument of yours is brutal. We were last man, last. Not 9th or 10th, 15th...If he doesn't see that we're done...then dont know what to say. He DID though but i'm not gonna give him a medal for being able to do grade 3 math.

-Martin was hurting the team? The two years we finished the year with martin we made the playoffs, year we didn't, we didn't. We were competing for a spot with Martin, completely lost the spot with Cunneyworth. I'd still take Martin over Therrien(which isn't a shot at Gauthier obviously).

-Dropped the floaters? you're from alberta, Rene Bourque? Hello? Don't tell me he's got gionta's determination and compete level.

-We'll see how Markov plays out but we're all hopeful and optimistic he can be even a top 3 d-man on our team. If he does that, i'm happy. It's tough to rebound asap after a long layoff, we'll see but I'm optimistic he's still a top pairing guy or top 3.

-Kaberle won't be traded for a late 1st. Not in the 2013 draft. He'll get something zidlicky ish, but it's said the devil's pieces weren't all that flattering(cap dumps, busts and a pick). I actually don't mind kaberle, just feel we need another type of D, a shutdown guy more than another PMD.

Anyway, all you keep saying is he didn't sacrifice the future out of desperation when we're dead last. I really hope not. Look, i'll gladly admit he was not THAT bad, but he wasn't good, not even close. He isn't someone I feel would destroy the team(if you check, I personally never said he did). I just feel he's far from someone who will lead us to perrenial contenders. Gauthier epitomized mediocracy. I had enough of it. The best thing Gauthier did was fail. We finally have a chance at getting a guy who will be our #1 center one day and it's thanks to his failure AND to be fair, just a plain bad year. We can't blame him for everything, that's just insane.

You know, Molson spoke over and over about wanting to regain that status as a top team, a perrenial contender, something that was removed under the last 2 regimes. So even he agrees we just weren't exhibiting that aura of being an elite team under last regime, we weren't and Gauthier is part of that.

Also, just to tease you. If you want to credit Gauthier for a few picks setting the 'foundation' for Bergevin, I raise you Price, Pacioretty, Subban, White, Emelin, Desharnais, Weber, Leblanc, etc.. all drafted under gainey's watch and given to Gauthier. Suddenly it won't count. The best we have is, he traded AK for a 2nd in a weak draft. Well my god, I hope so, most of us felt he could get a 2nd+B level prospect. This is like me saying I traded Subban for a 5th, but you must credit me as I restocked the picks for the next guy. Granted, I'm overshooting it on purpose but I hope you get the jist. AK was worth a 2nd, the gill trade however, that I must admit was fantastic, really good move.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:31 PM
  #213
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OneSharpMarble = Gauthier

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07-12-2012, 02:55 AM
  #214
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If we didn't have Kaberle, we could have given Doan an offer he couldn't refuse. But we just supposedly "had" to get Kaberle. Yeah, "had to".

7 million a year the first year here for Doan.

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Old
07-12-2012, 06:06 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Mike, I avoided using the word fanboy. I simply said fan.

Lets take your approach regarding professionals being above reproach and how ordinary people really are clueless.

Bernard (Bernie) Madoff was the founder of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC. He was a professional. Graduated from Hofstra University. A very smart professional man. Knew a lot about investing.

Did he have a "useful" business mind in concocting his ideal investment scheme? Did the "casual non-investor" who served on the jury have the ability to determine right from wrong regarding the "professional" actions of Madoff?

Mike, you are jumping through hoops in defense of Gauthier. And yes, a lot of us do understand what a good (and bad) GM is and does..........even though we are not GMs. That is an elitist (and condescending) approach to take in an effort to support Pierre. It is also insulting to assume that we are not "smart enough" to disagree with the management skills of an intelligent "professional" like Pierre Gauthier.

After all, he was the GM to dismantle this franchise.........and we werent.
SouthernHab, after our exchange a few months back via PMs, I do respect and understand where you come from. I also appreciate that, following that exchange, we have more respectful exchanges on this forum.

I don't agree with you on a few points, though:

1) I don't believe Gauthier is above reproach. (indeed, I have been critical of him as well, and have been critical of him in this very thread!)

2) I do not believe people on this forum are clueless. (otherwise, why would I frequent the place?)

Rather, my point is twofold in this thread:

a) I find some people here, you included some of the time, to be too black-and-white. Just because I say Gauthier isn't useless, for example, you assume I am defending him. This is not so. In fact, as mentioned, I prefaced my points by stating I felt he was a bad GM. I don't think good discussion, or substantial discussion, is rooted in an idea that X person is bad, and is to blame for everything with the franchise.

It is evident (to me) that Gauthier has merit. That he has some good attributes. That he must interview well, connect to people well, or just understand the game well from some perspective. There is a reason why he is continually hired, and I don't believe we can just chalk it up to the same old recycling stuff in the NHL. I'd much sooner the discussion here analyse what Gauthier might bring, and question why he'd be hired, rather than have 200-300 posts repeating the same old 'the Hawks don't know what they got themselves into!' stuff ad nauseum.


b) My original point in this thread is segued nicely from the above, which is to say that: when Gauthier was GM, people (fans/media) assumed and believed that Gauthier had few friends and connections in the league. A major plus for Bergevin was that he was well connected. Now that Gauthier's been hired, we chalk it up simply to him being part of an old boys network. These two arguments are incongruous. They're both superficial arguments used to maintain the simplistic notion that Gauthier is bad, and represents ineptitude.

...


In a later post, you explain that this old boys network is reality. I don't deny that. What I have trouble with is the incongruous argument that, on the one hand, he had no friends to make trades with or have any sense of reality of what the NHL was about; and, on the other hand, had friends to hire him as soon as he was on the outs in Montreal.

...


hockeyfan2k11: actually, I'm not always defending Gauthier. I think he was a bad GM. Why do you have such trouble reading?

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07-12-2012, 09:12 AM
  #216
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SouthernHab, after our exchange a few months back via PMs, I do respect and understand where you come from. I also appreciate that, following that exchange, we have more respectful exchanges on this forum.

I don't agree with you on a few points, though:

1) I don't believe Gauthier is above reproach. (indeed, I have been critical of him as well, and have been critical of him in this very thread!)

2) I do not believe people on this forum are clueless. (otherwise, why would I frequent the place?)

Rather, my point is twofold in this thread:

a) I find some people here, you included some of the time, to be too black-and-white. Just because I say Gauthier isn't useless, for example, you assume I am defending him. This is not so. In fact, as mentioned, I prefaced my points by stating I felt he was a bad GM. I don't think good discussion, or substantial discussion, is rooted in an idea that X person is bad, and is to blame for everything with the franchise.

It is evident (to me) that Gauthier has merit. That he has some good attributes. That he must interview well, connect to people well, or just understand the game well from some perspective. There is a reason why he is continually hired, and I don't believe we can just chalk it up to the same old recycling stuff in the NHL. I'd much sooner the discussion here analyse what Gauthier might bring, and question why he'd be hired, rather than have 200-300 posts repeating the same old 'the Hawks don't know what they got themselves into!' stuff ad nauseum.



b) My original point in this thread is segued nicely from the above, which is to say that: when Gauthier was GM, people (fans/media) assumed and believed that Gauthier had few friends and connections in the league. A major plus for Bergevin was that he was well connected. Now that Gauthier's been hired, we chalk it up simply to him being part of an old boys network. These two arguments are incongruous. They're both superficial arguments used to maintain the simplistic notion that Gauthier is bad, and represents ineptitude.

...


In a later post, you explain that this old boys network is reality. I don't deny that. What I have trouble with is the incongruous argument that, on the one hand, he had no friends to make trades with or have any sense of reality of what the NHL was about; and, on the other hand, had friends to hire him as soon as he was on the outs in Montreal.

...


hockeyfan2k11: actually, I'm not always defending Gauthier. I think he was a bad GM. Why do you have such trouble reading?

THIS THIS THIS THIS

expect when you say that, you get accused of being his relative lol

Some ppl are just mad that NHL exc see that Gauthier can bring something good to the table. And they can't stand it lol


Last edited by habs03: 07-12-2012 at 09:28 AM.
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07-12-2012, 10:47 AM
  #217
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Last place finishes trump vegetarianism every single time.
We needed 7 more points during the regular season to be drafting 10th overall.

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07-12-2012, 11:11 AM
  #218
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We needed 7 more points during the regular season to be drafting 10th overall.
And if Christina Aguilera lost all thy weight she'd be hot again. But tr bottom line is habs still sucked and she's still fat.

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07-12-2012, 11:14 AM
  #219
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We needed 7 more points during the regular season to be drafting 10th overall.
and 7 more points and oilers draft 8th. 7 more points and nashville wins president's trophy. etc... 7 points is 7 points we didn't have.

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07-12-2012, 02:07 PM
  #220
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I didn't like RC because he was a bad coach, the media mess it created was generated by a bunch of complete morons. I actually applaud that management decided to hire someone that isn't french, it's just too bad it wasn't the right guy.
Morning firings is just poor timing, and mid game trades are weird, but I think people make it into a bigger thing than it is.
If you trade a player during a game, and the other GM wants him pulled for no risk of injuries, so be it, I don't really see the big deal. Unconventional, but really, doesn't change much to me.

I think the ''I just traded you, but I can't tell you where now'' ways are what was bad for me.
I agree, but don't you agree that it's not completely unreasonable to link being traded in the middle of a game, firing during game day, after said coach already ran the practice with "I just traded you, but I can't tell you where now" and conclude that this man is completely arrogant and thoughtless to others emotions, to me all these things tie into one overlying problem, the ideas are similar, he is lacking communication skills and compassion for his players/staff. As soon as cammy said anything against the dictator he was out the door.

The man was a control freak, I am so glad he's gone, I was a fan of his until last year. He did nothing great, but was looking pretty good. Then last year came and behaved like a typical Bandwagon fan, often overreacting, making unnecessary and negative impacting decisions. He never made a single good move last year. The years before he was mostly positive for me, but he showed he's completely inept all within a few short months, even weeks.

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07-12-2012, 10:28 PM
  #221
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you can count scotty bowman as a supporter too.but what does he know?
Scotty Bowman is not a Gauthier supporter.

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07-12-2012, 11:04 PM
  #222
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Last place finishes trump vegetarianism every single time.


agreed, my dislike of his work starts not with his eating habits, that never put us in last place. To anyone here trying to defend him and not listen to Hal Gill or Spacek, then there willfully being not smart.Now if Hal and Jaro said what they did on record, imagine the offrecord what was said , and imagine how many current players still on the roster,would back them up ...

Gauthier set nothing up in Montreal,it's not hard to finish last, anyone one here can manage the Montreal Canadiens and finish last, and i ARGUE that there are posters here that COULD DO BETTER than guide the Habs to last place.

Eric Cole GREW UP a Montreal Canadiens fan , so at 32 yrs old and UFA, how hard is it if he wants to come here to sign him?The GM could have been named Fred Flintstone , Cole was coming .


The LA media back in 2002 was saying same things about him as we are today in 2012....


What the Hawks need to be careful is he got his foot in the door in Montreal as a scout/ low rung position , which was no big deal at the time, like he just did in Chicago......


Last edited by Habaneros: 07-12-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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