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Old
07-11-2012, 10:06 PM
  #1
wingz rule
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Tor-Det

To Detroit- RFA rights to Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Lombardi, 3rd
To Toronto- RFA rights to Quincey, Filppula, Emmerton, Abdelkader's RFA rights

Detroit does it to get a solid defensemen for their top 4, a hard working russian who likes to shoot for Datsyuk and a center who will probably be one of the best #4 centers in the league. They also clear some roster spots since they'll have 16 forwards signed after Abdelkader.....

Toronto does it to upgrade their #1 center position. At the very least their top line will be better defensively. They ditch Lombardi's contract and get a top 4 defensemen who plays with grit. They also get a few players to help out in their bottom 6 as I see you have next to no one.... The 3rd is mainly to offset the balance between Kulemin and Filppula.

Edit-changed miller to abdelkader seeing as the leafs want more physical players.


Last edited by wingz rule: 07-12-2012 at 05:49 PM.
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Old
07-11-2012, 10:14 PM
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seanlinden
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Non-starter from Toronto's perspective.

Filppula is nowhere near a substantial enough upgrade at centre (if he even is one, putting a defensive centre on the top line is not going to help them in that department) over Connolly/Bozak to justify parting with Kulemin and our $1.3m #2 defenceman.


Something around Franson for Quincey?

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07-11-2012, 10:19 PM
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wingz rule
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Non-starter from Toronto's perspective.

Filppula is nowhere near a substantial enough upgrade at centre (if he even is one, putting a defensive centre on the top line is not going to help them in that department) over Connolly/Bozak to justify parting with Kulemin and our $1.3m #2 defenceman.
u should probably notice Filppula is better offensively and defensively than Kulemin as a winger as well so you still upgrade over Kulemin. As a center he has all the skills to compliment Kessel (responsible defensively, play making ability, speed). You're also getting Quincey who is better offensive but worse defensively to help ease the loss of him, so it's not like a total loss there.

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07-11-2012, 10:23 PM
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I'd do consider this from the Leafs. But if the Wings can put a more physical bottom 6er than Miller in the trade it would be nice.

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07-11-2012, 10:24 PM
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Something around Franson for Quincey?
Couldn't do that, the announcers would have a fit trying to differentiate between Franson and Franzen.

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07-11-2012, 10:27 PM
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wingz rule
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Something around Franson for Quincey?
I'd rather keep Quincey, tbh Franson's nice but i wonder why he hasn't been used properly in Nashville or with the Leafs.

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I'd do consider this from the Leafs. But if the Wings can put a more physical bottom 6er than Miller in the trade it would be nice.
personally i would offer the rfa rights to Abdelkader, i just dont know if the wings brass would since he's a local kid.

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07-11-2012, 10:27 PM
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seanlinden
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u should probably notice Filppula is better offensively and defensively than Kulemin a a winger as well so you still upgrade over Kulemin. As a center he has all the skills to compliment Kessel (responsible defensively, play making ability, speed). You're also getting Quincey who is better offensive but worse defensively to help ease the loss of him, so it's not like a total loss there.
Kulemin isn't our #1 centre, so there's no comparison to be made there. The tradeoff is between Filppula and Connolly/Bozak/JvR. Defensive awareness (above a respectable level) does not factor in because to effective, it would require Kessel/Lupul to think defensively and they don't do that.

The Leafs upgrade at centre needs to focus on offence and/or size, as the only way they're going to fix their +/- is to be more dominant with the puck.

The Leafs have plenty of offensive blueliners, they need to be a little more physical.

As for the comparsion between Kulemin and Filppula. We'll keep Kulie. He's proven capable of scoring 30 goals in this league. He's excellent defensively and provides much needed size up front for us. We've already got 6 centres.

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07-11-2012, 10:30 PM
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Couldn't do that, the announcers would have a fit trying to differentiate between Franson and Franzen.
No. One's the mule and one is Franson. Maybe if the announcers stopped calling him Franzen and started calling him the mule more often then he wouldn't be a lazyass for 75% of the games he plays. It would be a great thing.


Franson


Quincey rights
Emmerton

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07-11-2012, 10:36 PM
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wingz rule
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Kulemin isn't our #1 centre, so there's no comparison to be made there. The tradeoff is between Filppula and Connolly/Bozak/JvR. Defensive awareness (above a respectable level) does not factor in because to effective, it would require Kessel/Lupul to think defensively and they don't do that.

The Leafs upgrade at centre needs to focus on offence and/or size, as the only way they're going to fix their +/- is to be more dominant with the puck.

The Leafs have plenty of offensive blueliners, they need to be a little more physical.

As for the comparsion between Kulemin and Filppula. We'll keep Kulie. He's proven capable of scoring 30 goals in this league. He's excellent defensively and provides much needed size up front for us. We've already got 6 centres.
Quincey's a gritty top 4 defensemen who plays physical. Filppula isn't as physical as Kulemin, but he gives you versatility (to move JVR back to the wing if that experiment fails) and has proven to be better overall offensively and defensively.

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07-11-2012, 10:39 PM
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No. One's the mule and one is Franson. Maybe if the announcers stopped calling him Franzen and started calling him the mule more often then he wouldn't be a lazyass for 75% of the games he plays. It would be a great thing.


Franson


Quincey rights
Emmerton
I just don't see how Franson is an upgrade over Quincey and I watch both teams a lot.

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07-11-2012, 10:39 PM
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Tyler Biggs
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No. One's the mule and one is Franson. Maybe if the announcers stopped calling him Franzen and started calling him the mule more often then he wouldn't be a lazyass for 75% of the games he plays. It would be a great thing.


Franson


Quincey rights
Emmerton
Pass from the Leafs.

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:40 PM
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Swap Abdelkader with Miller and we'll change our 3rd to a 2nd and it's a done deal...

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07-11-2012, 10:40 PM
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I just don't see how Franson is an upgrade over Quincey and I watch both teams a lot.
Franson and Quincey are about even overall, but Franson is younger and has more potential.

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07-11-2012, 10:43 PM
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Swap Abdelkader with Miller and we'll change our 3rd to a 2nd and it's a done deal...
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Franson and Quincey are about even overall, but Franson is younger and has more potential.
I'd do it no question, the question is will Holland be willing to part with Abdelkader.

Well from what i've seen of the two Quincey has proven to be better offensively and plays a more physical game. Defensively their both meh imo. I do agree Franson has more potential though.

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07-11-2012, 10:43 PM
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Quincey's a gritty top 4 defensemen who plays physical. Filppula isn't as physical as Kulemin, but he gives you versatility (to move JVR back to the wing if that experiment fails) and has proven to be better overall offensively and defensively.
Yeah he is -- which is why the Franson-Quincey swap is appealing. Gunnarsson-Quincey is a non-starter. Gunnarsson is our #2 defenceman!

Filppula gives us versatility we don't need. We need the 30 goal scorer with size who isn't an impending UFA. We already have 6 centres and that EXCLUDES JvR. We need to upgrade the size / offensive ability of our #1 centre, and Filppula doesn't do that.

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07-11-2012, 10:46 PM
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I'd do it no question, the question is will Holland be willing to part with Abdelkader.

Well from what i've seen of the two Quincey has proven to be better offensively and plays a more physical game. Defensively their both meh imo. I do agree Franson has more potential though.
I agree with the fact that Quincey has been more physical over his career, he plays an aggressive style, but I am hoping Carlyle can get Franson to use his size more to his advantage, and become more physical for us.

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07-11-2012, 10:49 PM
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I'd rather keep Quincey, tbh Franson's nice but i wonder why he hasn't been used properly in Nashville or with the Leafs.



personally i would offer the rfa rights to Abdelkader, i just dont know if the wings brass would since he's a local kid.
I would do this.

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07-11-2012, 10:51 PM
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Non-starter from Toronto's perspective.

Filppula is nowhere near a substantial enough upgrade at centre (if he even is one, putting a defensive centre on the top line is not going to help them in that department) over Connolly/Bozak to justify parting with Kulemin and our $1.3m #2 defenceman.


Something around Franson for Quincey?
You do hopefully understand Burke would take this deal and run to the bank. Especially after the draft which makes Gunnersons loss not as bad. Quincey would step right in for a few years and take that spot. Filppula is by far one of the most underrated players in the league. Hes evolved into a complete player. Kulemin is nowhere near a slam dunk to be a long term NHL player and his value right now is his qualifying offer. The Wings give way to much.

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07-11-2012, 10:51 PM
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wingz rule
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Yeah he is -- which is why the Franson-Quincey swap is appealing. Gunnarsson-Quincey is a non-starter. Gunnarsson is our #2 defenceman!

Filppula gives us versatility we don't need. We need the 30 goal scorer with size who isn't an impending UFA. We already have 6 centres and that EXCLUDES JvR. We need to upgrade the size / offensive ability of our #1 centre, and Filppula doesn't do that.
Ya but Franson doesn't benefit us in any way. Gunnar is currently your number 2 but there is no guarantee he maintains this chemistry with Phaneuf. Remember Aulie was your number 2 defensmen at one point. Btw you keep saying Kulemin is a 30 goal scorer. He got that with insane chemistry with Grabovski and MacArthur. When Mac came back to earth Kulemin's stats dropped. I'm valuing Kulemin as a 20-25 goal scorer in this deal. And you keep saying Filppula doesn't improve your #1 center position offensively. If he was given ice time and linemates like Bozak he's probably have a 60-70 point season. Fil finally got some linemates who could play well this season and he showed he could perform with a 66 point season.

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07-11-2012, 10:56 PM
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You do hopefully understand Burke would take this deal and run to the bank. Especially after the draft which makes Gunnersons loss not as bad. Quincey would step right in for a few years and take that spot. Filppula is by far one of the most underrated players in the league. Hes evolved into a complete player. Kulemin is nowhere near a slam dunk to be a long term NHL player and his value right now is his qualifying offer. The Wings give way to much.
You're undervaluing Kulemin a bit, he plays a similar hardworking game to Cleary but he has more talent. It's a good combination.

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07-11-2012, 11:00 PM
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You do hopefully understand Burke would take this deal and run to the bank. Especially after the draft which makes Gunnersons loss not as bad. Quincey would step right in for a few years and take that spot. Filppula is by far one of the most underrated players in the league. Hes evolved into a complete player. Kulemin is nowhere near a slam dunk to be a long term NHL player and his value right now is his qualifying offer. The Wings give way to much.
No, he really wouldn't.

The draft got Burke a couple of project defenceman -- nobody who's going to play this year and cover for Phaneuf's blunders. Quincey would not be able to effectively do that -- he doesn't play smart enough.

You want to refer to Filppula as one of the most underrated players in the league? fine, keep him. We're not interested at anywhere near the cost proposed in this thread.

As for Kulemin, he is a slam dunk to be an NHL player. He's been here 4 years and the only question is whether or not he's able to regain his offensive touch and be a premier top 6 forward with size, or continues to be an effective 3rd-line two-way player who struggles to put the puck in the net. We'll take that chance.

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Ya but Franson doesn't benefit us in any way. Gunnar is currently your number 2 but there is no guarantee he maintains this chemistry with Phaneuf. Remember Aulie was your number 2 defensmen at one point. Btw you keep saying Kulemin is a 30 goal scorer. He got that with insane chemistry with Grabovski and MacArthur. When Mac came back to earth Kulemin's stats dropped. I'm valuing Kulemin as a 20-25 goal scorer in this deal. And you keep saying Filppula doesn't improve your #1 center position offensively. If he was given ice time and linemates like Bozak he's probably have a 60-70 point season. Fil finally got some linemates who could play well this season and he showed he could perform with a 66 point season.
Ok, so don't do it.

What do you mean no guarantee of them maintaining chemistry? They've played together for the better part of 2 years and been good at it. Unless the Leafs have a upgrade coming on the blueline, Gunnarsson goes nowhere. Simple as that.

I keep saying Kulemin has scored 30 goals in this league because he has. Do I expect him to this year? no. I expect him to be at that 20-25 range with solid defensive play. That's exactly what the Leafs need on their 2nd line.

Filppula may get 60-70 points playing on Toronto's top line, or he may fold under the pressure of playing outside of Zetterberg/Datsyuk's shadow. We don't know that, but what we do know, is that he isn't the answer to making that line effective. In case you didn't watch the Leafs last year, that line had no problem scoring goals, the problem was keeping them out because they spent so little time in the offensive zone. Filppula isn't big enough or strong enough on the puck to fix that, so while he may be better in the takeaway department, it really doesn't matter when you're playing 5on3 in your own zone regardless.

The solution to Toronto's #1 line is to get bigger. That's why they're trying JvR at centre. He'll probably find his way to the wing and allow a guy like Tim Connolly to succeed in the role... and that doesn't cost us Kulemin or Gunnarsson.

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07-11-2012, 11:08 PM
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No, he really wouldn't.

The draft got Burke a couple of project defenceman -- nobody who's going to play this year and cover for Phaneuf's blunders. Quincey would not be able to effectively do that -- he doesn't play smart enough.

You want to refer to Filppula as one of the most underrated players in the league? fine, keep him. We're not interested at anywhere near the cost proposed in this thread.

As for Kulemin, he is a slam dunk to be an NHL player. He's been here 4 years and the only question is whether or not he's able to regain his offensive touch and be a premier top 6 forward with size, or continues to be an effective 3rd-line two-way player who struggles to put the puck in the net. We'll take that chance.



Ok, so don't do it.

What do you mean no guarantee of them maintaining chemistry? They've played together for the better part of 2 years and been good at it. Unless the Leafs have a upgrade coming on the blueline, Gunnarsson goes nowhere. Simple as that.

I keep saying Kulemin has scored 30 goals in this league because he has. Do I expect him to this year? no. I expect him to be at that 20-25 range with solid defensive play. That's exactly what the Leafs need on their 2nd line.

Filppula may get 60-70 points playing on Toronto's top line, or he may fold under the pressure of playing outside of Zetterberg/Datsyuk's shadow. We don't know that, but what we do know, is that he isn't the answer to making that line effective. In case you didn't watch the Leafs last year, that line had no problem scoring goals, the problem was keeping them out because they spent so little time in the offensive zone. Filppula isn't big enough or strong enough on the puck to fix that, so while he may be better in the takeaway department, it really doesn't matter when you're playing 5on3 in your own zone regardless.

The solution to Toronto's #1 line is to get bigger. That's why they're trying JvR at centre. He'll probably find his way to the wing and allow a guy like Tim Connolly to succeed in the role... and that doesn't cost us Kulemin or Gunnarsson.
I'd keep him in a heartbeat after Burke made the trade. I'm a Toronto fan. Filppula would immediately upgrade this offense, defense and pk and he's only coming into his prime. We need to realize that Kulemin isnt what we thought YET. Not saying he won't be but I'll take a player like Filppula and his playmaking ability and he's also pretty good in the playoffs every year.

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07-11-2012, 11:10 PM
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I'd keep him in a heartbeat after Burke made the trade. I'm a Toronto fan. Filppula would immediately upgrade this offense, defense and pk and he's only coming into his prime. We need to realize that Kulemin isnt what we thought YET. Not saying he won't be but I'll take a player like Filppula and his playmaking ability and he's also pretty good in the playoffs every year.
Defence and PK? So we trade our #2 defenceman and big winger that's 1 year removed from 30 goals for the ideal 3rd line centre?!?!?

Toronto is trying to get clearly defined roles on the team. Filppula isn't good enough to lock up as the #1 centre and we've got Grabovski firmly at #2 with a $5.5m contract. That leaves #3, and you don't trade significant pieces of your roster for a guy that you hope to be your #3 centre long term.

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07-11-2012, 11:11 PM
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They also get a few players to help out in their bottom 6 as I see you have next to no one....
The Leafs have more bottom 6 players than Detroit has dilapidated warehouses.

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07-11-2012, 11:16 PM
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What do you mean no guarantee of them maintaining chemistry? They've played together for the better part of 2 years and been good at it. Unless the Leafs have a upgrade coming on the blueline, Gunnarsson goes nowhere. Simple as that.

I keep saying Kulemin has scored 30 goals in this league because he has. Do I expect him to this year? no. I expect him to be at that 20-25 range with solid defensive play. That's exactly what the Leafs need on their 2nd line.

Filppula may get 60-70 points playing on Toronto's top line, or he may fold under the pressure of playing outside of Zetterberg/Datsyuk's shadow. We don't know that, but what we do know, is that he isn't the answer to making that line effective. In case you didn't watch the Leafs last year, that line had no problem scoring goals, the problem was keeping them out because they spent so little time in the offensive zone. Filppula isn't big enough or strong enough on the puck to fix that, so while he may be better in the takeaway department, it really doesn't matter when you're playing 5on3 in your own zone regardless.
Um Gunnar played with schenn for the most part and 2 years ago it was Phaneuf and Aulie....

If filppula doesn't work out as your center for whatever reason he still can provide what you want for your description of a second line winger. Filppula has wanted more ice time and is a reliable center, its just in previous years he's centered mediocre players. Kessel and Lupul are a large improvement to his wingers 2 years ago. Also Filppula has played on 5v3 penalty kills for the wings. Anyhow seems you don't like the deal oh well.


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