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Old
07-11-2012, 10:21 PM
  #26
wingz rule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
The Leafs have more bottom 6 players than Detroit has dilapidated warehouses.
Sorry I looked at Capgeek and noticed you have mike brown and Macarthur as 3rd line wingers and no one on your 4th line. I assumed they needed some depth there since they bought out Armstrong, didn't resign rosehill. Also wasn't sure which of your 6 centers could play on the wing.

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07-11-2012, 10:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Um Gunnar played with schenn for the most part and 2 years ago it was Phaneuf and Aulie....

If filppula doesn't work out as your center for whatever reason he still can provide what you want for your description of a second line winger. Filppula has wanted more ice time and is a reliable center, its just in previous years he's centered mediocre players. Kessel and Lupul are a large improvement to his wingers 2 years ago. Also Filppula has played on 5v3 penalty kills for the wings. Anyhow seems you like the deal oh well.

Uhh... no he didn't. He played occasionally with Schenn.

When Filppula doesn't work out as the #1 centre, we'll have lost him, Gunnarsson and Kulemin for nothing. We've got plenty of second line wingers who are combinations of younger/better/bigger than him, and won't cost as much to retain.

Other fans need to realize that your #2 or #3 centre likely is of zero value to us because we have comparable players. If the Leafs are going to trade for a centre, it's gotta be a bonafide #1 guy or else it's simply not worth it. Play out the season with Connolly/Bozak/JvR, and focus on getting a goaltender / upgrade on Franson.

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07-11-2012, 10:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Uhh... no he didn't. He played occasionally with Schenn.

When Filppula doesn't work out as the #1 centre, we'll have lost him, Gunnarsson and Kulemin for nothing. We've got plenty of second line wingers who are combinations of younger better bigger than him, and won't cost as much to retain.
I coulda swore that he only started playing with Phaneuf during the second half of the season.

Bigger and younger maybe but better? They guy would have been your 3rd highest scoring player last year. I think your're selling him a bit short.

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07-11-2012, 10:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
I'd keep him in a heartbeat after Burke made the trade. I'm a Toronto fan. Filppula would immediately upgrade this offense, defense and pk and he's only coming into his prime. We need to realize that Kulemin isnt what we thought YET. Not saying he won't be but I'll take a player like Filppula and his playmaking ability and he's also pretty good in the playoffs every year.

So the Leafs trade their best defensive defenseman, and best defensive forward to improve their defense and PK? That sounds like a good idea.

Not sure why Kulemin and Gunnarsson have to be in every Leaf proposal when they are a few of the only good defensive players on the Leafs.
Also, there is no need for Filpulla really. Leafs have enough second line centers whether he is an upgrade over Bozak or not.
Gunnarsson is way too important to trade away unless it's for a significant upgrade.

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07-11-2012, 10:29 PM
  #30
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
I coulda swore that he only started playing with Phaneuf during the second half of the season.

Bigger and younger maybe but better? They guy would have been your 3rd highest scoring player last year. I think your're selling him a bit short.
Yeah -- Lupul & Kessel are better. Kulemin & JvR are younger.

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07-11-2012, 10:30 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by superrich View Post
So the Leafs trade their best defensive defenseman, and best defensive forward to improve their defense and PK? That sounds like a good idea.

Not sure why Kulemin and Gunnarsson have to be in every Leaf proposal when they are a few of the only good defensive players on the Leafs.
Well the main reason i want Kulemin is he's a hard working russian who prefers to shoot. Datsyuk has wanted a russian so I thought it would fill a need. And I like gunnar cuz he's consistant defensively. Other than those 2 you don't really have many valuable roster pieces that you are willing to give up.

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07-11-2012, 10:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Well the main reason i want Kulemin is he's a hard working russian who prefers to shoot. Datsyuk has wanted a russian so I thought it would fill a need. And I like gunnar cuz he's consistant defensively. Other than those 2 you don't really have many valuable roster pieces that you are willing to give up.
Well you know what? We want Datsyuk & Zetterberg...

That doesn't mean you're going to trade them to us for what we're prepared to offer.

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07-11-2012, 10:32 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Yeah -- Lupul & Kessel are better. Kulemin & JvR are younger.
ya but you were saying you had better players available for the second line winger position. Kulemin and JVr arn't better.....

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07-11-2012, 10:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Well you know what? We want Datsyuk & Zetterberg...

That doesn't mean you're going to trade them to us for what we're prepared to offer.
I offered what I thought would fill some needs for both sides, some leaf fans other than yourself thought it was an ok deal.

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07-11-2012, 10:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
I offered what I thought would fill some needs for both sides, some leaf fans other than yourself thought it was an ok deal.
It doesn't.

As I mentioned, unless we're talking a team like Pittsburgh or Los Angeles or Colorado, a team's #2 or #3 centre does not satisfy any of Toronto's needs. We have 6 natural centres and a young winger we're trying to convert. 4 of those can honestly call themselves #2/3 centres. We don't need or want any more, especially if they cost us size up front or one of our best defensive defencemen.

That's like us offering Franson for Datsyuk. Red Wings need defencemen right? Toronto need's a centre, perfect!

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07-11-2012, 10:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
It doesn't.

As I mentioned, unless we're talking a team like Pittsburgh or Los Angeles or Colorado, a team's #2 or #3 centre does not satisfy any of Toronto's needs. We have 6 natural centres and a young winger we're trying to convert. 4 of those can honestly call themselves #2/3 centres. We don't need or want any more, especially if they cost us size up front or one of our best defensive defencemen.

That's like us offering Franson for Datsyuk. Red Wings need defencemen right? Toronto need's a centre, perfect!
Well thats your opinion. From what i've seen most leaf fans want to get rid of Lombardi and Connolly, so they obviously arn't doing the job. That leaves bozak who i'm sure Filppula is an overall upgrade over. Now since you don't like the deal doesn't mean i'm offering you garbage or anything.

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07-11-2012, 10:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Well thats your opinion. From what i've seen most leaf fans want to get rid of Lombardi and Connolly, so they obviously arn't doing the job. That leaves bozak who i'm sure Filppula is an overall upgrade over. Now since you don't like the deal doesn't mean i'm offering you garbage or anything.
The Leafs have enough #2 centers. If they are going to trade Kulemin or Gunnarsson, it's gotta be for a significant upgrade at center, or else it's not worth dealing them. The deal creates a huge hole in the team defensively.

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07-11-2012, 10:53 PM
  #38
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This does not upgrade the Leafs center position, and Quincy is not better than Gunnarsson so it doesn't upgrade our defence. Lombardi is not really a cap-dump to us, and we do not have nobody in our bottom 6.

You in fact missed all points for Toronto.

I don't know about value, but it is a no from the Leafs either way.

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07-11-2012, 10:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by superrich View Post
The Leafs have enough #2 centers. If they are going to trade Kulemin or Gunnarsson, it's gotta be for a significant upgrade at center, or else it's not worth dealing them. The deal creates a huge hole in the team defensively.
It was under my impression that this was a significant upgrade seeing as Filppula has scored more offensively despite being a defensive forward. I'd imagine that Kessel and Lupul are an upgrade over an aging Zetterberg (according to most fans) and Hudler (All the skill in the world, just too small and slow for today's game to truly be effective).

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07-11-2012, 10:55 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
This does not upgrade the Leafs center position, and Quincy is not better than Gunnarsson so it doesn't upgrade our defence. Lombardi is not really a cap-dump to us, and we do not have nobody in our bottom 6.

You in fact missed all points for Toronto.

I don't know about value, but it is a no from the Leafs either way.
It definitely does but not much according to your fan base
The difference between Filppula and Kulemin imo was greater than the difference between Quincey and Gunnarsson
I assumed he was since he was part of LACK (or LCK now i guess)
And from what i saw off capgeek your bottom 6 looked weak my bad

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07-11-2012, 11:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
To Detroit- RFA rights to Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Lombardi, 3rd
To Toronto- RFA rights to Quincey, Filppula, Emmerton, Miller
I'd do that trade.

Worst thing that happens is Filppula isn't as good as Bozak centering the top line and we put him on the third line which is where many people think Kulemin will be playing next year anyways as that will be our shutdown line. Losing Gunnar hurts, we do get a guy who can log 20+ minutes a night though in return. My only worry is finding a guy to play with Phaneuf on the top pairing if we lose Gunnar. We have enough guys though that I'm sure one will play well with him. Emmerton and Miller would be solid depth guys even though we don't necessairly need them, it's always great to add depth.

Seanlinden, you keep mentioning we have 6 natural centers on our team as if trying to indicate we don't need centers. Currently we have McClemant and Steckel who are for sure bottom two lines centers. With how Lombardi has played in Toronto he would have to be a bottom center too but he doesn't have the size to do it effectively. Connolly and Bozak could both be maybe a #2 but we have Grabo firmly in that spot as you mentioned. Getting Filppula adds someone who brings top 2 lines centering ability.

You may say Filppula has only had 1 good year, probably a fluke. We are giving up Kulemin who has 1 good year and didn't repeat. We could sell high and buy high on Filppula with this trade, but atleast Filppula did it in his most recent season. Also if you look at his most commonly played with linemates last year, it was Bertuzzi and Franzen. This year it was Zetterberg and Hudler. Better linemates, much higher point total. I am confident that with Kessel, Lupul, JVR, Grabo, Filppula and Kadri/Frattin/MacArthur we can create 2 deadly lines.

Forgot to mention that Filppula's recent years show him as passer, could use one of those centering the likes of Kessel, Lupul and JVR all who have 30+ goal potential.

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07-11-2012, 11:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
It definitely does but not much according to your fan base
The difference between Filppula and Kulemin imo was greater than the difference between Quincey and Gunnarsson
I assumed he was since he was part of LACK (or LCK now i guess)
And from what i saw off capgeek your bottom 6 looked weak my bad
I don't see much difference between Filppula and Kulemin honestly, except perhaps that Filppula has done it longer and is therefore a bit more proven. Right now, it would be buying Filppula high and selling Kulemin low, which doesn't really make sense. Either way, he is not a number 1 center, and we really don't have any room for him otherwise.

LACK has kind of just become a mob mentality thing around here. Nobody ever really looks at the player or situation. They just assume they are bad because everybody says so. Losing Lombardi wouldn't really hurt, but adding him as negative value to a trade doesn't really make sense, since his contract expires after this year and after an offseason where he can actually train, he may regain enough of his form to allow us to gain assets from trading him later on in the year.

With such an overload of forwards, we will likely have some 2nd-line capable forwards on the 3rd line. Colborne, Kadri, and Frattin are also trying for the top-9 and Komarov is trying for the 4th, and our centers are already set with McClement and Steckel.

It wasn't a terrible try. The value may be there, or close. It just doesn't really make sense for us, that's all.

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07-11-2012, 11:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
LACK has kind of just become a mob mentality thing around here. Nobody ever really looks at the player or situation. They just assume they are bad because everybody says so. Losing Lombardi wouldn't really hurt, but adding him as negative value to a trade doesn't really make sense, since his contract expires after this year and after an offseason where he can actually train, he may regain enough of his form to allow us to gain assets from trading him later on in the year.

With such an overload of forwards, we will likely have some 2nd-line capable forwards on the 3rd line. Colborne, Kadri, and Frattin are also trying for the top-9 and Komarov is trying for the 4th, and our centers are already set with McClement and Steckel.

It wasn't a terrible try. The value may be there, or close. It just doesn't really make sense for us, that's all.
They have value just don't seem to be good fit for your team imo,well except Komiserek he was just bad.
I figured since you have so much bottom 6 center depth, We could trade some of our wingers for a #4 center that we've needed.
Forgot about Kadri and Colborne, Frattin was on Capgeek though. Strangely enough i've never heard of Komarov, and thanks for your opinion.

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07-11-2012, 11:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
They have value just don't seem to be good fit for your team imo,well except Komiserek he was just bad.
I figured since you have so much bottom 6 center depth, We could trade some of our wingers for a #4 center that we've needed.
Forgot about Kadri and Colborne, Frattin was on Capgeek though. Strangely enough i've never heard of Komarov, and thanks for your opinion.
Was playing in Russia, coming over this year. Seems to be the prototypical 4th liner type of guy.

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07-11-2012, 11:27 PM
  #45
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It doesn't.

As I mentioned, unless we're talking a team like Pittsburgh or Los Angeles or Colorado, a team's #2 or #3 centre does not satisfy any of Toronto's needs. We have 6 natural centres and a young winger we're trying to convert. 4 of those can honestly call themselves #2/3 centres. We don't need or want any more, especially if they cost us size up front or one of our best defensive defencemen.

That's like us offering Franson for Datsyuk. Red Wings need defencemen right? Toronto need's a centre, perfect!
If we have six natural centers and were converting a young winger to play center, doesn't that scream to you, our centers may very well be natural but they aren't very good as a group? Good thing we have all this depth. Hell, sign me up.

I'll take a guy who was in the top 25 in assists last year and still scored over 20 goals over most the current lot.

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07-11-2012, 11:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Was playing in Russia, coming over this year. Seems to be the prototypical 4th liner type of guy.
Thanks for the info!

And @petes2424 Fil is a natural center. He kinda played a wing/center position with Zetterberg last season though.

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07-11-2012, 11:36 PM
  #47
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Thanks for the info!

And @petes2424 Fil is a natural center. He kinda played a wing/center position with Zetterberg last season though.
Then I guess if he doesn't work out as #1 center he could be our #2 winger/#3 center.

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07-11-2012, 11:44 PM
  #48
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Then I guess if he doesn't work out as #1 center he could be our #2 winger/#3 center.
He could be, IMO he'd produce similarly to Zajac playing on your top line so not a true #1 just an upgrade on your current situation.

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07-11-2012, 11:44 PM
  #49
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Fail to see why everybody is so gung-ho on dumping Filppula.

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07-12-2012, 12:14 AM
  #50
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Fail to see why everybody is so gung-ho on dumping Filppula.
Don't wanna but I thought he best fit the needs of the other team, and for the players I wanted I had to offer some value

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