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Official Predators Off-Season 2012 Thread - Part II

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07-12-2012, 06:41 AM
  #501
triggrman
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Plan B - Calling up Jon Blum and telling him he's made the team.

Offseason done!
lol, that was last seasons plan b too...

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07-12-2012, 07:22 AM
  #502
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You guys do know that Poile talked to Weber's agent again and had a good conversation. They will talk again next week after Shea's charity golf thing in BC. I think it's funny that people say Poile does nothing and it's been almost a day since that blog came out about Poile and the agent talking yet people still will complain as if Poile is sitting in his office doing nothing all day long.

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07-12-2012, 07:28 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You guys do know that Poile talked to Weber's agent again and had a good conversation. They will talk again next week after Shea's charity golf thing in BC. I think it's funny that people say Poile does nothing and it's been almost a day since that blog came out about Poile and the agent talking yet people still will complain as if Poile is sitting in his office doing nothing all day long.
I think the scary thing here, is that you can take that article, replace "Weber" with "Suter", and it's all the sudden last year's offseason. The reality is, IF a mega offer is sitting on the table and he still needs more than July to think about committing to Nashville, the fans, and the organization, it's time to cut bait.

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07-12-2012, 07:32 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You guys do know that Poile talked to Weber's agent again and had a good conversation. They will talk again next week after Shea's charity golf thing in BC. I think it's funny that people say Poile does nothing and it's been almost a day since that blog came out about Poile and the agent talking yet people still will complain as if Poile is sitting in his office doing nothing all day long.
How many good conversations did Poile have with Suter's agent?

Any conversation with Weber's agent where Weber doesn't demand a trade is probably considered a good conversation.

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07-12-2012, 07:46 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You guys do know that Poile talked to Weber's agent again and had a good conversation. They will talk again next week after Shea's charity golf thing in BC. I think it's funny that people say Poile does nothing and it's been almost a day since that blog came out about Poile and the agent talking yet people still will complain as if Poile is sitting in his office doing nothing all day long.
For **** sake how many good conversations with Suter did Poile have? How many good conversation did Poile have with Weber prior to this point? For all you know the conversation entailed which teams weber would agree to be signed and traded to. I don't believe a word of that gibberish because history has now proven that these rumored "good conversations" don't mean jack ****.

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07-12-2012, 07:59 AM
  #506
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And the three of you turned it into a Suter thing. Love it. Point being many of you said Poile was doing nothing, the paper says otherwise. That's all that was being said. If you want to make it into something else that's fine but all I was pointing out that Poile is in fact, doing something. Whether or not any of you approve is a different thing altogether.

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07-12-2012, 08:04 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
And the three of you turned it into a Suter thing. Love it. Point being many of you said Poile was doing nothing, the paper says otherwise. That's all that was being said. If you want to make it into something else that's fine but all I was pointing out that Poile is in fact, doing something. Whether or not any of you approve is a different thing altogether.
I think the frustration here is the results to show for it. Even with this report, we find that the next conversation is another week away. Time and opportunities are flying by, and so far, since July 4th, the only move that has been made is losing one of the top D-men in the world.

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07-12-2012, 08:07 AM
  #508
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I think the frustration here is the results to show for it. Even with this report, we find that the next conversation is another week away. Time and opportunities are flying by, and so far, since July 4th, the only move that has been made is losing one of the top D-men in the world.
Like I said, I'm wasn't concerned with what was being done or not being done but disproving the fact that Poile sits in his office and looks down on Broadway all day long.

I agree, the summer has been disappointing so far but haven't we been down this path before? Haven't we seen results better than expected time and time again? I want more from this team from the top down but lots of teams have done nothing or next to nothing this offseason and it always makes me laugh that it seems like 29 other teams do something and we just sit around and get nothing done.

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07-12-2012, 08:37 AM
  #509
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We're coming up on 15 years as a franchise... so what's the magical number when we can start holding the coach and GM accountable? when are we allowed to demand a winner instead of just being glad to be here? is it 20 years? 30? Because I missed the part in the handbook where it laid out a specific timeline for becoming a big boy fanbase.
Let's see ... the entire country of Canada has gone longer without a Cup win than the Preds. That includes a team that's been around since 1909, one that renamed itself in 1926-27, a WHA merger team that had a great 80s, two early 70s expansion teams with one Cup combined in over 80 years of combined experience, an early 90s expansion team, and the most recent relocation who has a total of four playoff games in franchise history .... but ours is the club that sucks. This year's Cup champions have advanced past the second round twice in forty years, including this summer ... but we should do it every single year? Five of the so-called Original Six clubs have 39+ year runs without winning a Cup in their history .... so why haven't we one in just 13 seasons?

Most "big boy" clubs go years, if not decades, without making a finals or winning a championship. We complain that our team that is barely reaching the point of being able to spend anything above the cap floor (the fact that the midpoint is triple what our team salary was pre-lockout doesn't help much) doesn't clearly outperform teams with bigger payrolls, more established history, and that happen to be flashy FA destinations. The cold reality is that a Cup championship is something few fanbases see more than once every few decades. We're one of 12 teams in the league without a Cup ... one of six to never appear in the Finals.

Would you rather be us or the Islanders with those great memories of the early 1980s? Us or the Oilers where you could claim one Finals appearance during the Preds' existence? Us or the Blues/Sabres/Canucks and their four decades each without a Cup victory ... but 8 combined Finals in over 120 combined seasons? Us or the Leafs ... 13 Cups for the franchise but 45 years since the last Finals appearance?

There are some posts here that pose legitimate questions and points, such as does Poile have an issue closing the deal. That is a completely different tone than the Poile is "sitting on his hands" tact that we see here every summer. Looking at the FA market it was Suter ... step down to Carle ... big drop to most of the other d-men. Up front Parise was the big catch, Semin remains out there with the questions about his all around game, Whitney was among the top options but multi-year on a 40 year old carries risk, now Doan is a prime target ... then there's the huge drop off. So 2-3 defenders and maybe 5 or 6 prime forward targets? ... then a pool of second tier guys ... then a lot of players where it's a question of are they truly an upgrade over what they'd replace.

The team now has a hole on the back end that requires a big fix. Weber not signing yet is a cause for concern, but, we have weeks if not months to trade him for quality pieces in return if it comes to that. We could use some flash on the front side, but, that isn't a dire need for a top ten scoring team ... it's a tweak. We're looking pretty solid between the pipes. It's twelve days into free agency ... three months until the season starts ... panic time isn't here yet.

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07-12-2012, 09:11 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Let's see ... the entire country of Canada has gone longer without a Cup win than the Preds. That includes a team that's been around since 1909, one that renamed itself in 1926-27, a WHA merger team that had a great 80s, two early 70s expansion teams with one Cup combined in over 80 years of combined experience, an early 90s expansion team, and the most recent relocation who has a total of four playoff games in franchise history .... but ours is the club that sucks. This year's Cup champions have advanced past the second round twice in forty years, including this summer ... but we should do it every single year? Five of the so-called Original Six clubs have 39+ year runs without winning a Cup in their history .... so why haven't we one in just 13 seasons?

Most "big boy" clubs go years, if not decades, without making a finals or winning a championship. We complain that our team that is barely reaching the point of being able to spend anything above the cap floor (the fact that the midpoint is triple what our team salary was pre-lockout doesn't help much) doesn't clearly outperform teams with bigger payrolls, more established history, and that happen to be flashy FA destinations. The cold reality is that a Cup championship is something few fanbases see more than once every few decades. We're one of 12 teams in the league without a Cup ... one of six to never appear in the Finals.

Would you rather be us or the Islanders with those great memories of the early 1980s? Us or the Oilers where you could claim one Finals appearance during the Preds' existence? Us or the Blues/Sabres/Canucks and their four decades each without a Cup victory ... but 8 combined Finals in over 120 combined seasons? Us or the Leafs ... 13 Cups for the franchise but 45 years since the last Finals appearance?
You keep posting the same thing - that we should be thankful that we're not Columbus, and that it's ok to lose because the Maple Leafs have been losing too.

I can't say that that's not a valid way to look at things, and if that makes you happy, so be it.

Me, I aspire to a little higher standard. Why do we have to measure ourselves against the dregs of the league?

Why can't we measure ourselves against Anaheim? Why can't we look at Tampa (they've faced many of the same challenges wrt to ownership, etc) and say, why not us? Why can't we be Ottawa? Even Minnesota, in less years, has had more successful playoff runs.

If you're completely happy with simply making the playoffs every year, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I fully admit that Trotz/Poile are good enough to make the 7th-8th seed every single year.

But if you're not, what in the Trotz/Polie regime makes you think that they can bring a cup to Nashville? Trotz's has taken multiple teams to the playoffs and accomplished pretty much nothing, and has actually been upset in the playoffs as many times as he's actually won anything. Poile has been an NHL GM 30+ years, and has 0 cups, and even 0 cup final appearances to his credit. I think 1 of his Washington teams made it to an eastern conference final. That's it.

Do you not have one shred of doubt that maybe, just maybe, someone can do a better job?

They've built 2 teams, and we've seen the best that Trotz/Poile can do, and it's a second round beatdown.

If Weber leaves, then what would be the harm in letting someone else give it a shot.
What is the absolute worst that can happen? We stink for a year or two and then we land a few dynamic superstars to rebuild around.

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07-12-2012, 09:14 AM
  #511
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Because we've lost Suter and have not signed Weber. And like I said more and more signs are pointing to Poile not being able to close the deal. I'd love for him to change that and prove me wrong.

I always hate the arguement "what should he have done", we don't make millions a year to run a hockey team, Poile does, he better have answers that we don't.

What I want him to do is stop being the runner up and land a damn good player that makes our team better.

I'd love for him to address our offensive needs and to make our team more exciting.

I'd love for him to get Weber locked up long term.

These are the things that he needs to do if he's the GM we make him out to be. A good salesman doesn't take no for answer, time for Poile to sale the franchise to some free agents.

It's not like other teams haven't been filling needs.
That's a great list.
Now HOW does poile make these things happen? Overpay for everyone he thinks might be good for the team? Trade two of our better roster players and some of our better prospects for one "top 6" forward or defenseman? What's the limit? How far should he go before the critics start with the "OH poile got ***** in that deal. How could he overpay like that!"

You say: "I always hate the arguement "what should he have done", we don't make millions a year to run a hockey team, Poile does, he better have answers that we don't."
Well I hate the reply "he NEEDS to do X" He doesn't operate in a vacuum. There are other teams and egos to deal with. I know you know that.
You say "he better have answers that we don't." Well, he has information that we don't; and he has conversations and other dealings that we don't know about. And, like it or not/accept it or not, this is the first year he will be able to (I assume he was given the OK) spend to the cap. Some of you people make it sound like all he has to do to get a player is say "I want that guy" and he gets that guy, but he just isn't doing it.

Now I see people scoffing about him having conversations with Weber. OK, should he not even have conversations and just straight out trade him? "Shea I don't care if you do want to come back or not, so I'm trading you for the best deal I can get."

I understand the frustration. I do. I'm NOT happy about our playoff record and I'd love to see the things that you want to happen happen. Maybe a new GM would do better. I just shake my head when I see the constant (and at times downright silly) complaints about a guy who puts together a mid/low budget team which happens to get into, and now advance, in the playoffs 7 of the last 8 years.

And, we lost suter because suter didn't want to be here. I honestly believe that even if poile offered him what he is reportedly offering weber, suter would have turned it down.

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07-12-2012, 09:16 AM
  #512
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Less than $2M *snort* great work there. Could've been a guy we could've used once Weber is traded and we need to get to the floor.
As I said earlier, maybe poile should have offered him suter's contract.
Would that have been satisfactory for you?

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07-12-2012, 09:24 AM
  #513
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As I said earlier, maybe poile should have offered him suter's contract.
Would that have been satisfactory for you?
Yeah...us missing out on Mueller isn't making me very upset.

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07-12-2012, 09:24 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
There are some posts here that pose legitimate questions and points, such as does Poile have an issue closing the deal. That is a completely different tone than the Poile is "sitting on his hands" tact that we see here every summer. Looking at the FA market it was Suter ... step down to Carle ... big drop to most of the other d-men. Up front Parise was the big catch, Semin remains out there with the questions about his all around game, Whitney was among the top options but multi-year on a 40 year old carries risk, now Doan is a prime target ... then there's the huge drop off. So 2-3 defenders and maybe 5 or 6 prime forward targets? ... then a pool of second tier guys ... then a lot of players where it's a question of are they truly an upgrade over what they'd replace.

The team now has a hole on the back end that requires a big fix. Weber not signing yet is a cause for concern, but, we have weeks if not months to trade him for quality pieces in return if it comes to that. We could use some flash on the front side, but, that isn't a dire need for a top ten scoring team ... it's a tweak. We're looking pretty solid between the pipes. It's twelve days into free agency ... three months until the season starts ... panic time isn't here yet.
I'd really like to see how one could rationally counter this assessment.

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07-12-2012, 09:32 AM
  #515
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I'd really like to see how one could rationally counter this assessment.
Easy - in 13 years we've accomplished nothing, while watching some of our 90's expansion brethren reach heights we haven't sniffed.

He's building teams and then they're falling apart before they bear any results.

Whatever Polie's doing - it doesn't appear to be working. It didn't work in Washington either.

If Weber leaves, and we're forced to blow it all up again, what would be the harm in letting another regime give it a try?

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07-12-2012, 09:37 AM
  #516
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Maybe I'm strange, but I'd rather watch a team that seems to have a long-term plan to be competitive than a team that has one good year followed by years of consistent sucking. Losing Suter was a blow, no doubt, but before I hang Poile out to dry I want to see what he comes up with. If Weber signs long term and he gets Semin or someone else to help up front this will still be a really good team. I still think they're just a couple of pieces away from challenging for the division, assuming Weber signs...

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07-12-2012, 09:39 AM
  #517
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As I said earlier, maybe poile should have offered him suter's contract.
Would that have been satisfactory for you?
What a comeback! Knocked that one out of the park. Don't be daft. Giving a guy like Mueller a $2.5 one year deal is worth the risk. I mean really if we were willing to sign Sullivan after his injury and if we were willing to bring Rads back from Russia, upping an offer on Mueller is nothing.

Furthermore Mueller was one of the few forwards out there in free agency that could've actually helped our team. He is very good on the power play and shootouts and is one of the few guys who would've made a great Poile reclamation project.

You aren't making any sort of point by going to extreme levels, you just look silly.

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07-12-2012, 09:50 AM
  #518
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Easy - in 13 years we've accomplished nothing, while watching some of our 90's expansion brethren reach heights we haven't sniffed.

He's building teams and then they're falling apart before they bear any results.

Whatever Polie's doing - it doesn't appear to be working. It didn't work in Washington either.

If Weber leaves, and we're forced to blow it all up again, what would be the harm in letting another regime give it a try?
No doug. I'm talking about the assessment he made of what's out there this FA period and the assessment of where the team stands.

What free agents are out there that could turn this team into what you want? and do you really think this team is on the verge of a total rebuild? ("we're forced to blow it all up again")

I'm not necessarily against regime change, I'm on the fence. On one hand (I've said this in a different post) poile has built a low-mid budget team that has gotten to the POs 7 of the last 8 years. But I also agree that he can't seem to get a team that can go all the way. I lived in D.C. for much of poile tenure there and these same concerns were being expressed by the fans there.

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07-12-2012, 09:55 AM
  #519
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Easy - in 13 years we've accomplished nothing, while watching some of our 90's expansion brethren reach heights we haven't sniffed.

He's building teams and then they're falling apart before they bear any results.

Whatever Polie's doing - it doesn't appear to be working. It didn't work in Washington either.

If Weber leaves, and we're forced to blow it all up again, what would be the harm in letting another regime give it a try?
I am 100% for a trade weber, rebuild around different pieces direction. The amount of quality prospects/young players we could get for him would make a total rebuild less painful than most teams that try it. Worst that happens is we suck and we get an elite prospect at the draft. This years UFA is too weak to really drastically improve our team, but guys like Mueller are decent options that could at least get us to the cap floor after moving weber.

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07-12-2012, 10:04 AM
  #520
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What a comeback! Knocked that one out of the park. Don't be daft. Giving a guy like Mueller a $2.5 one year deal is worth the risk. I mean really if we were willing to sign Sullivan after his injury and if we were willing to bring Rads back from Russia, upping an offer on Mueller is nothing.

Furthermore Mueller was one of the few forwards out there in free agency that could've actually helped our team. He is very good on the power play and shootouts and is one of the few guys who would've made a great Poile reclamation project.

You aren't making any sort of point by going to extreme levels, you just look silly.
OK cool. You obviously have a thing for mueller. That's fine no need to get so emotional. His career stats are awesome.
But you are right, I can't figure out why poile would pass on a guy who missed all of one season and most of another with concussion problems? It's not like poile has had any experience with that sort of thing. You know ... I changed my mind ... Lombardi, I mean Mueller, would be great for this team!

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07-12-2012, 10:04 AM
  #521
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I'd really like to see how one could rationally counter this assessment.
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No doug. I'm talking about the assessment he made of what's out there this FA period and the assessment of where the team stands.

What free agents are out there that could turn this team into what you want? and do you really think this team is on the verge of a total rebuild? ("we're forced to blow it all up again")

I'm not necessarily against regime change, I'm on the fence. On one hand (I've said this in a different post) poile has built a low-mid budget team that has gotten to the POs 7 of the last 8 years. But I also agree that he can't seem to get a team that can go all the way. I lived in D.C. for much of poile tenure there and these same concerns were being expressed by the fans there.
If Weber leaves, this team is on the verge of a total rebuild. It will take an extremely huge haul, and we'd need to get lucky in that every young player we get back will need to pan out (that rarely happens). If we blow it and get a haul like Atlanta got for Kovalchuk, we're screwed.

If Weber doesn't leave, then we can go about adding parts and hoping for the best. That said, we're going to need to be more than a cap floor team in order to do so. That's a whole 'nuther question - are we actually going to spend money, or was that just rhetoric. We'll see. There were holes in this team that had nothing to do with Suter, and yet we did nothing on the FA market to address them. We'll see how that pans out.

Again your asking for an actual plan. I can play the GM game. I don't know if we'd be any closer to a cup. I won't even rewind to July 1 and use the benefit of hindsight. I won't make any trades either.

1. Sign Andrei Kostitsyn.

He was better here than he was in Montreal. And this was with limited time to get used to his teammates. I don't think it would be a stretch to get 20G-40pts from him.

He won't be expensive. He won't have a long term. Think of it as our shot in the dark forward that we always bring in.

2. Sign Carlo Coliacovo.

Think of this as Josi insurance. If Josi falters, or Blum/Ekholm just don't make it, we need another solid Dman who can play on the 2nd pair, or just add depth. Won't be expensive.

That's what I'd do.

Now, again, i'm not railing against DP for anything specific. He's the GM, if he feels that he wants to go with the youngsters, so be it.

Yet next year, if we're sitting here after getting beaten in the 1st round, again - don't you at one point have to ask - if DP's best is good enough?

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07-12-2012, 10:08 AM
  #522
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We lost 4 out of 5 games. To me, that's an arse-kicking.
for everyone that thought we rolled through detroit, phoenix did the exact same to us. a bunch of tight games and series that ended in 5. ass kicking no way you spin it.

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07-12-2012, 10:15 AM
  #523
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If Weber leaves, this team is on the verge of a total rebuild. It will take an extremely huge haul, and we'd need to get lucky in that every young player we get back will need to pan out (that rarely happens). If we blow it and get a haul like Atlanta got for Kovalchuk, we're screwed.

If Weber doesn't leave, then we can go about adding parts and hoping for the best. That said, we're going to need to be more than a cap floor team in order to do so. That's a whole 'nuther question - are we actually going to spend money, or was that just rhetoric. We'll see. There were holes in this team that had nothing to do with Suter, and yet we did nothing on the FA market to address them. We'll see how that pans out.

Again your asking for an actual plan. I can play the GM game. I don't know if we'd be any closer to a cup. I won't even rewind to July 1 and use the benefit of hindsight. I won't make any trades either.

1. Sign Andrei Kostitsyn.

He was better here than he was in Montreal. And this was with limited time to get used to his teammates. I don't think it would be a stretch to get 20G-40pts from him.

He won't be expensive. He won't have a long term. Think of it as our shot in the dark forward that we always bring in.

2. Sign Carlo Coliacovo.

Think of this as Josi insurance. If Josi falters, or Blum/Ekholm just don't make it, we need another solid Dman who can play on the 2nd pair, or just add depth. Won't be expensive.

That's what I'd do.

Now, again, i'm not railing against DP for anything specific. He's the GM, if he feels that he wants to go with the youngsters, so be it.

Yet next year, if we're sitting here after getting beaten in the 1st round, again - don't you at one point have to ask - if DP's best is good enough?
remember if Weber leaves it will be via trade and I cant imagine us not getting a top notch forward in return, plus a servicable defenseman and maybe another roster player... so we will likely be "rebuilt"(or more appropriately redesigned) by the trade....

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07-12-2012, 10:32 AM
  #524
hatedandproud
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
If Weber leaves, this team is on the verge of a total rebuild.

That said, we're going to need to be more than a cap floor team in order to do so. That's a whole 'nuther question - are we actually going to spend money, or was that just rhetoric. We'll see.

There were holes in this team that had nothing to do with Suter, and yet we did nothing on the FA market to address them. We'll see how that pans out.

Again your asking for an actual plan. I can play the GM game. I don't know if we'd be any closer to a cup. I won't even rewind to July 1 and use the benefit of hindsight. I won't make any trades either.

1. Sign Andrei Kostitsyn.

2. Sign Carlo Coliacovo.

That's what I'd do.

Yet next year, if we're sitting here after getting beaten in the 1st round, again - don't you at one point have to ask - if DP's best is good enough?
Thank you. I've taken everything out except the points I'm going to address, I hope that's OK w/ you.

I don't think this team is that bad off really if weber leaves. Don't get me wrong, that'll be a huge hit but I don't think it will require a total rebuild. The D will definitely need some big time help but I don't think the whole team needs to be blown up. Edit: the snot doc makes an excellent point!

I agree. We'll see about this spending to the cap. I want to see too.

What holes and what free agent would help? This is where that assessment comes in. The FA inactivity came from waiting to see what #20 was going to do. Not sure if that was the best thing to do, but I can completely understand why he did it.

Signing A Kostitsyn. I know I probably shouldn't do this but, ... I know that management wasn't happy with how he acted/handled himself. That's all.

Signing Coliacovo. I don't think poile wants to take a chance on him because of the injury history. Don't know for sure just guessing. If he didn't have that, I don't really think that would be a bad move.

And I agree with the last part. Especially, if we get beat in the first round again.


Last edited by hatedandproud: 07-12-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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Old
07-12-2012, 10:54 AM
  #525
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by Hustlechuck24 View Post
What a comeback! Knocked that one out of the park. Don't be daft. Giving a guy like Mueller a $2.5 one year deal is worth the risk. I mean really if we were willing to sign Sullivan after his injury and if we were willing to bring Rads back from Russia, upping an offer on Mueller is nothing.

Furthermore Mueller was one of the few forwards out there in free agency that could've actually helped our team. He is very good on the power play and shootouts and is one of the few guys who would've made a great Poile reclamation project.

You aren't making any sort of point by going to extreme levels, you just look silly.
Our PP happened to be number 1 or 2 in the league last year so that's not much of an issue is it?

Secondly, we complain about playoff success, shootouts are only in the regular season so to me that's a moot point. We need guys that can perform in the playoffs when it counts.

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