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Old
07-11-2012, 03:17 PM
  #76
Estimated_Prophet
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I don't think there is any question that Timmins is among the elite when the discussion of scouts comes up. It is funny that people will try and criticize him for not drafting stars. Price is a star......period, end of story and Pacioretty and Subban are well on their ways, while Galchenyuk was the clear consensus pick at #3 and is in the hands of lady luck.

This nonsense about Detroit being a great drafting team is laughable. The fact is that they got lucky with Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom. Do people really believe that they knowingly allowed a future superstar to slip for multiple rounds while they bided their time picking nobody's. To give credit where it is due you have to acknowledge that they took a bold organizational philosophy by allocating more assets to European scouting than anyone else at the time. That being said, they still drafted Europeans ahead of Zetterberg and Datsyuk who were complete flops. The wings simply threw more darts in the direction of Europe and hit a couple of bullzeye's and a triple twenty.

The reason that they aren't having any success now is because every team scouts Europe heavily and the Red Wings scouts now have to prove themselves as talent evaluators on an equal playing field........this has conclusively been a failure for close to a decade now.

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07-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #77
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Now I disagree with that. If you draft a truly exceptional player they will perform well. Its not like management is trying to sabotage a prospect. They seem to have done well with Price, PK and Patches with the same inept management that apparently has ruined all his other picks. Seems unfair not to spread the blame around a little.

I'm sure it was management who destroyed the careers of Chipchura, Fischer, Urquhart, Carle, Maxwell etc. them sucking had nothing to do with it and Timmins bares no responsibility what so ever.
You are right, alot of guys havent panned out, which is what you would expect in a system where if you pick a couple NHLers out of each draft you are probably holding your own. I actually put alot of blame on the coach, JM. You dont stop developing young guys when they hit the NHL. There were alot of skill, scoring type guys that JM ...couldnt use..., so they were on the 4th line while Darche ( nothing against Darche ) was on the top 6 and getting PP time. Thats stupid. I dont care that Darche was a soldier, hes a 4th liner. So these young guys became frustrated, acted poorly and
the GM is supposed to do what if the coach wont play a guy ? Right, trade him and for not much because we wernt trading a 20 plus goal guy, we were trading a 4th line disguntled 8-10 goal guy. Anyway, we need to fully develop our guys so hopefully they find a role on the team or at worst we know exactly what we are trading so we value the player properly and get fair return.

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07-12-2012, 08:12 AM
  #78
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How can you guys pretend Detroit is heading right to the garbage in the near future?

Sure you don't replace a Lidstrom that easily. But the Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall and Franzen still has some pretty good hockey to offer for a few years while Filpulla, Ericsson and White are all 27 and entering their prime.

Their prospect pool is far from being ugly including Smith, Tatar, Frk, Ouellet, Athanasiou, Jurco and Sproul. Never underestimate Detroit system when it's time to developp raw talent.

Sure they've lost some powerhouse potential by losing Lidstrom but throwing them to the garbage right away seems a bit far fetched to me.

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07-12-2012, 08:17 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Carlos Garner View Post
How can you guys pretend Detroit is heading right to the garbage in the near future?

Sure you don't replace a Lidstrom that easily. But the Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall and Franzen still has some pretty good hockey to offer for a few years while Filpulla, Ericsson and White are all 27 and entering their prime.

Their prospect pool is far from being ugly including Smith, Tatar, Frk, Ouellet, Athanasiou, Jurco and Sproul. Never underestimate Detroit system when it's time to developp raw talent.

Sure they've lost some powerhouse potential by losing Lidstrom but throwing them to the garbage right away seems a bit far fetched to me.
The big question with Detroit is if they can find some young stars. Will Nyqvist, Jarnkrok or Tatar (or others?) turn into stars. They will need some help soon.

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07-12-2012, 08:19 AM
  #80
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To me the team that has been drafting really well is St Louis. They have built up a great pool of young players.

Still I am very pleased with the work of Timmins...habs fans should could themselves lucky we have a great head scout.

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07-12-2012, 08:27 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Carlos Garner View Post
How can you guys pretend Detroit is heading right to the garbage in the near future?

Sure you don't replace a Lidstrom that easily. But the Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall and Franzen still has some pretty good hockey to offer for a few years while Filpulla, Ericsson and White are all 27 and entering their prime.

Their prospect pool is far from being ugly including Smith, Tatar, Frk, Ouellet, Athanasiou, Jurco and Sproul. Never underestimate Detroit system when it's time to developp raw talent.

Sure they've lost some powerhouse potential by losing Lidstrom but throwing them to the garbage right away seems a bit far fetched to me.
Detroit has some good prospects but none project to the calibre of Lidstrom Datryuk or Zetterberg. Lidstrom is already gone and Datryuk has already begun to decline at 34(will be in a week).

I don't think they'll drop off the face of the earth but they'll need to get some big UFA's soon to replace taht star power or they'll end up as a 5th to 8th team in the West year in and year out.

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07-12-2012, 08:32 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Detroit has some good prospects but none project to the calibre of Lidstrom Datryuk or Zetterberg. Lidstrom is already gone and Datryuk has already begun to decline at 34(will be in a week).

I don't think they'll drop off the face of the earth but they'll need to get some big UFA's soon to replace taht star power or they'll end up as a 5th to 8th team in the West year in and year out.
To be fair, none of Dats, Lidstrom or Z projected to be who they wound up being.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Smith and one of the forwards from their prospect group turn out to be core players. They'll need more, certainly, but I suspect that will come.

Detroit was close to landing Suter this summer. They've got the deep pockets and the management team to keep it together, IMO.

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07-12-2012, 08:46 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Detroit has some good prospects but none project to the calibre of Lidstrom Datryuk or Zetterberg. Lidstrom is already gone and Datryuk has already begun to decline at 34(will be in a week).

I don't think they'll drop off the face of the earth but they'll need to get some big UFA's soon to replace taht star power or they'll end up as a 5th to 8th team in the West year in and year out.
How did Datsyuk started to decline? He just comes off a season of a point per game. This guys has all the tools to play at this same level until the age of 40. Since Joe Sakic posted a 100 pts season at 38 I have no doubt a guy like Datsyuk can pretend to a point per game average until his late 30s.

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07-12-2012, 09:11 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I don't think there is any question that Timmins is among the elite when the discussion of scouts comes up. It is funny that people will try and criticize him for not drafting stars. Price is a star......period, end of story and Pacioretty and Subban are well on their ways, while Galchenyuk was the clear consensus pick at #3 and is in the hands of lady luck.

This nonsense about Detroit being a great drafting team is laughable. The fact is that they got lucky with Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom. Do people really believe that they knowingly allowed a future superstar to slip for multiple rounds while they bided their time picking nobody's. To give credit where it is due you have to acknowledge that they took a bold organizational philosophy by allocating more assets to European scouting than anyone else at the time. That being said, they still drafted Europeans ahead of Zetterberg and Datsyuk who were complete flops. The wings simply threw more darts in the direction of Europe and hit a couple of bullzeye's and a triple twenty.

The reason that they aren't having any success now is because every team scouts Europe heavily and the Red Wings scouts now have to prove themselves as talent evaluators on an equal playing field........this has conclusively been a failure for close to a decade now.
People have also a lot of problems that "stars" and "on their way to be stars" aren't the same thing. In 5 years, chances are we will readdress on we see things. But as of now, since 2003, you take a team like Philly who did draft Giroux, Carter, and Richards and you can say that while they ALSO have their own problems, like their inability to draft goalies, and some busts along the way as well, they did were able to draft stars. The thing is, when a team suck at drafting, you don't expect a lot. But a guy as good as Timmins, I guess the expectations are way high.

Price is a star.....again.....we can TOTALLY say that he has the potential to be. But for that to happen, he will have to deliver in the playoffs. And maybe get a Vezina nomation once in a while. I know...we have a bad team hence he's not able to get those things. Surely. But the only thing we can say right now is that with THE SAME TEAM, another goalie was able to do more than him. I guess that the future will assess how great a goalie he is. WE ALL BELIEVE he has the potential to be great. But greatness can be judged in 2 different ways. You can be seen great yet, the quality of the team might overshadowed how just good you really are. Or, since you play on a bad team, you are able to singlehandidly win games by yourself. Now, we keep being told that Gainey and Gauthier were not that bad after all (another topic), if so, it has to mean that our teams wern't that bad as well. But while he has done things in such a young age that is impressive indeed....the end-results, 7 years after being drafted are not there whether it's consistency in the regular season or real results in the playoffs. Price will get there. Not sure you can already mention him as a proven star. But he will. And CLEARLY that's also for Pacioretty and Subban. I do believe they will get there. You need consistency to be called a star. Not their fault, they're young, they can't be consistent....and they willl....but you can't call them stars as far as I'M concerned. Potential stars? If you wish, doesn't count though. Just like the Gally, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Co. We all think we have a hall of fame future lineup in our ranks....but we can't say that now.

What we CAN say for Timmins is that he was able to recognize NHL players. He has the most NHL'ers and when then you compare the ratio of where we picked compared to other teams, he's all alone. Yet, can this guy have a weakness? And AS OF NOW, he wasn't able to draft the Giroux, Carter, Richards, the Weber, Parisť and Co. Did others teams do it as well? Of course not, but they suck. We have the greatest head scout in the business....so expectations are much higher. Yet, the guy still has a job right? So as great as expectations are, he's not suffering from it. He might be the best paid head scout in the business. And immediately after a new GM came in, he named him as one incredible asset. So he is rewarded for it. But you would have hope that we would have been dress a lineup with better players than let say his first selections in 2003, 2004 and 2006. 2007, was an INCREDIBLE DRAFT. And the rest is still too soon to tell. Yet, maybe the new development system will make some of his "average" picks" look much better. I guess we'll see about that. Will also take some time though. In resume, we've got a great one. Surely the best in the best in the business. But even the best can be better. Even the best have their "flaws". I do know that a lot of the other teams would LOVE to have Timmins and his flaws....that's for sure. But he is ours, and the Montreal Canadiens needs to be build through the draft. We've sucked so much prior to the Gainey and Co administration because of how incredibly poor we were also in the first round in 1990. We surely still suffer from that to this day. So you don't want to see that to be repeated again. And we know we won't. But as a drafting team, you need to do everything necessary to be better. Having more scouts in the Q, which we're still waiting about that, having more scouts everywhere, something we already addressed not too long ago. So, even the organizaiton recognize it. We have the best....so why the change? 'Cause we could be better.

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07-12-2012, 09:22 AM
  #85
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You might as well throw out Chicago, Vancouver and Pittsburgh, as the core of their teams revolve around at least 2 top-3 picks (Toews/Kane, Sedin/Sedin, Crosby/Malkin). That has nothing to do with scouting and everything to do with finishing last and picking the top name on the board - child's play. And now we've got our own in Galchenyuk and another top-5 pick in Price, so let's see how that plays out.

Nashville's superstars were/are gems that they found later in the draft, but what have they accomplished that Montreal hasn't? A team that has never made the conference final in their franchise history is a "perennial contender"?

Detroit is Detroit. I don't think there's any shame in admitting we're not at their level of finding superstars at later rounds in the draft, because no one is.

Boston is pretty much the only example you've given that works but even then, their Norris trophy winning defenseman and Vezina/Conn Smythe winning goaltender were acquired through free agency. I will grant that their own draft picks (Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Marchand) did play a big role in their Cup success though.

Los Angeles would be a good example - Kopitar, Quick, Brown and Doughty were all drafted by the Kings and all played a big role in their success. On the other hand, before this run as an 8th seed, no one would have ever called them "perennial contenders", and a case could be made that the additions of Richards and Carter helped push them over the edge.

So no, I would not say that the "perennial contenders" are where they are because of their ability to find stars in the draft (which has always been the one criticism of Timmins).
Bang. Says it all. Very good post. Take away the easy top 3 tanking draft picks, and we draft as well as anyone, and better.

Detroit is an outlier on the curve, because of 3, yes, that's all, 3, phenomenal later picks. Very good, or lucky, don't know.

Otherwise, cup winners draft high, that's the way it is now, and I'm glad we've joined the club.

But: I have 2 really really big problems with our drafting the last ten years, their names are Fischer, and Kostitsyn. Terrible terrible picks in years when there were so many better players.

Franchise changing picks. Disasters.

I'll give him a break on Kosty, as I'm not sure who the idiot was who decided to go with him, but TT is responsible for Fischer over Giroux, and I'll never forgive him for that, no matter how many 3rd liners he picks.

And don't say 12 other teams missed Giroux also. So what? Isn't TT supposed to be a top 3 head scout according to this thread? Then he should have picked Giroux, or he's not a top 3 head scout, or even a top 10, in my opinion.

End of story for me. TT is still a fail in my books for that one miss. It was a disaster.

I'll go further: Top scouts pick hidden stars. They may miss all the time, but they find the stars and pick them. TT does not, and never has, found a hidden star, ever.


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07-12-2012, 09:48 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I don't think there is any question that Timmins is among the elite when the discussion of scouts comes up. It is funny that people will try and criticize him for not drafting stars. Price is a star......period, end of story and Pacioretty and Subban are well on their ways, while Galchenyuk was the clear consensus pick at #3 and is in the hands of lady luck.

This nonsense about Detroit being a great drafting team is laughable. The fact is that they got lucky with Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom.
What utter nonsense. Gals was number 3, tough choice, and has played let's see: Zero professional hockey games. Price was a top 5 pick, Pax first round, a good pick, but not a hidden gem, and Subby was not a hidden gem either. And none of them have won a cup or are stars at this point anyway.

Detroit is as great drafting team precisely because they found hidden stars in later rounds and won cups with them. This cannot be refuted, and it should be the measure of great drafting.

We have one zero cups with all the great 3rd liners and average D TT has drafted. He is a good scout, far from a great one.

Blame management all you want. Latendresse is not a ****ing hidden gem. Nor is Lapierre. Nor is Higgins, Nor is S Kostytsin, nor is Matt D'agostini, not is Ryan Obyrne, nor is Mike Komiserek, nor is McDonaugh, nor is Leblanc, nor is Dumont, nor is White, nor is Shultz, nor is Gallagher, nor is Morgan Ellis.

These guys are not Claude Giroux, or Nick Lidtsrom, and never ever will be. They are not hidden absolute gems. TT has never, ever picked one in a later round, or even beyond 5th overall, never.

He is not a great scout, he is merely a good one. And he has made at least one terrible, awful error in drafting Fischer over Giroux, which cancels every other good move he has ever made.

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07-12-2012, 09:53 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post

He is not a great scout, he is merely a good one. And he has made at least one terrible, awful error in drafting Fischer over Giroux, which cancels every other good move he has ever made.


That makes no sense whatsoever.

Because he (and 28 other scouts) missed out on one player, it cancels out every other good move he (and consequently they) ever made?

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07-12-2012, 09:54 AM
  #88
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Bang. Says it all. Very good post. Take away the easy top 3 tanking draft picks, and we draft as well as anyone, and better.

Detroit is an outlier on the curve, because of 3, yes, that's all, 3, phenomenal later picks. Very good, or lucky, don't know.

Otherwise, cup winners draft high, that's the way it is now, and I'm glad we've joined the club.

But: I have 2 really really big problems with our drafting the last ten years, their names are Fischer, and Kostitsyn. Terrible terrible picks in years when there were so many better players.

Franchise changing picks. Disasters.

I'll give him a break on Kosty, as I'm not sure who the idiot was who decided to go with him, but TT is responsible for Fischer over Giroux, and I'll never forgive him for that, no matter how many 3rd liners he picks.

And don't say 12 other teams missed Giroux also. So what? Isn't TT supposed to be a top 3 head scout according to this thread? Then he should have picked Giroux, or he's not a top 3 head scout, or even a top 10, in my opinion.

End of story for me. TT is still a fail in my books for that one miss. It was a disaster.

I'll go further: Top scouts pick hidden stars. They may miss all the time, but they find the stars and pick them. TT does not, and never has, found a hidden star, ever.
So wait... Timmins isn't a top-10 head scout because he passed on Giroux. Yet, he was drafted 22nd overall, meaning 21 teams passed over him. Does that mean that all 21 scouts that passed him are not in the top-10 head scouts? Then, you can't say the following scouts would all have drafted Giroux, we will never know. So they can't top-10 head scouts either!

Mhh... That's confusing. So I guess the best head scout is whoever made the pick back in 2006 in Philadelphia, followed by 9 empty spots, followed by the rest.

As for hidden stars... What about Halak? Streit? Subban if given more time? What if Latendresse can stay injury free next season and keeps up the pace he had in Minny?

Edit: Subban is not a hidden stars? You do realize that there aren't 10 1st pairing dmen picked in the 2nd round every year right? Pacioretty is looking like a first liner picked in the late 1st round of a meh draft. Not so bad. If you look at the next 20 picks, only 1 has become a good NHLer: David Perron. Not so bad! I would say that if out of 20 players, you picked one of the two that has potential to be a game changer, you've picked a hidden stars.


Last edited by Gabe84: 07-12-2012 at 10:01 AM.
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07-12-2012, 09:57 AM
  #89
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End of story for me. TT is still a fail in my books for that one miss. It was a disaster.

I'll go further: Top scouts pick hidden stars. They may miss all the time, but they find the stars and pick them. TT does not, and never has, found a hidden star, ever.
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These guys are not Claude Giroux, or Nick Lidtsrom, and never ever will be. They are not hidden absolute gems. TT has never, ever picked one in a later round, or even beyond 5th overall, never.

He is not a great scout, he is merely a good one. And he has made at least one terrible, awful error in drafting Fischer over Giroux, which cancels every other good move he has ever made.
You can't really expect anyone to take you seriously when you post stuff like this, right? At a certain point you must know that you're just embarassing yourself.

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07-12-2012, 10:04 AM
  #90
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You are right, alot of guys havent panned out, which is what you would expect in a system where if you pick a couple NHLers out of each draft you are probably holding your own. I actually put alot of blame on the coach, JM. You dont stop developing young guys when they hit the NHL. There were alot of skill, scoring type guys that JM ...couldnt use..., so they were on the 4th line while Darche ( nothing against Darche ) was on the top 6 and getting PP time. Thats stupid. I dont care that Darche was a soldier, hes a 4th liner. So these young guys became frustrated, acted poorly and
the GM is supposed to do what if the coach wont play a guy ? Right, trade him and for not much because we wernt trading a 20 plus goal guy, we were trading a 4th line disguntled 8-10 goal guy. Anyway, we need to fully develop our guys so hopefully they find a role on the team or at worst we know exactly what we are trading so we value the player properly and get fair return.
So Dags and Maxwell and Tender and Higgins and S kosty and Lapierre would have been stars if we had coached them better!

What a bunch of *****. You'd think 22 year old NHL players need diapers.

They're mediocre players, and TT picked them, and many more of the same. He did not pick Datsyuk, Detroit did. Was Detroit lucky? No. They picked Datsyuk. TT did not.

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07-12-2012, 10:07 AM
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bsl, maybe it's time to step away from the forum for a little bit. Listen to the birds, and the rustling of leaves, and maybe rethink this whole thing you've got going on here.

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07-12-2012, 10:11 AM
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I'll go further: out of all the players picked in the second round, here are the five players who have played the most games:

1. Wayne Simmonds
2. TJ Galliardi
3. Nick Spalling
4. PK Subban
5. Dana Tyrell

Simmonds has a few decent seasons under his belt, and he seemed to break out in Philadelphia last year where he had a very good season, getting nearly 30 goals and 60 points.

Between him and Subban, it's pretty tight as to who is the best player out of the 2007 second round. 28 teams picked *much worse* players. I would say that Timmins came out on top of that one.

Hell, if you want to make it more fair and go back 30 picks before Subban was taken (IE project him in a fake round where all 30 teams got a shot at him) back to pick #14, only three players can compare to him, and the Habs picked one of them:
-Shattenkirk (14)
-Pacioretty (22)
-Perron (26)

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07-12-2012, 10:14 AM
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You can't really expect anyone to take you seriously when you post stuff like this, right? At a certain point you must know that you're just embarassing yourself.
Mark Streit was an All Star...9th round selection.

Jaroslav Halak could be an All Star, won a Jennings...9th round select.

Now find multiple teams who've selected star players better than then that late (7th round+) during Timmins' tenure as head scout from 2003+. After all, to quote you, "Top scouts pick hidden stars. They may miss all the time, but they find the stars and pick them. TT does not, and never has, found a hidden star, ever."

Surely you won't have much trouble finding a boat load of teams that have more than two.

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07-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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You can't really expect anyone to take you seriously when you post stuff like this, right? At a certain point you must know that you're just embarassing yourself.
Why? Please explain. I'm happy to be wrong but you make 'I have 25,000 post' statements, you don't debate.

At least when other guys here disagree with me, they debate. I can see why you have 25,000 posts with your great one liners. I actually don't post that much, and I never post the sort of reply you just did.

Did you ever consider that I might be contrary for the fun of it, and throw stuff out there to get things going? Guess not.

I actually see both sides of the question, but decided to take a position against TT. I'll change my position though if it makes you like me more Mr. Stalin. Not.

You should be embarrassed.

Put me on your ignore list if you don't like my posts.

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07-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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So Dags and Maxwell and Tender and Higgins and S kosty and Lapierre would have been stars if we had coached them better!

What a bunch of *****. You'd think 22 year old NHL players need diapers.

They're mediocre players, and TT picked them, and many more of the same. He did not pick Datsyuk, Detroit did. Was Detroit lucky? No. They picked Datsyuk. TT did not.
The Datsyuk example is getting old. The guy was drafted in 1998. Timmins at the time wasn't even a head scout at the time:

"From 1999 to 2002, he was the team’s Director of Hockey Operations. He was responsible for the Scouting Department, the minor league affiliate, budgeting, and the daily operation of the Hockey Department."

I guess what you are really saying is "Why hasn't Timmins drafted a Datsyuk yet?"

My challenge to you is this: find me some players that are on par with Datsyuk drafted during Timmins' tenure as a Habs' head scout in rounds 6 and past.

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07-12-2012, 10:20 AM
  #96
LyricalLyricist
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Mark Streit was an All Star...9th round selection.

Jaroslav Halak could be an All Star, won a Jennings...9th round select.

Now find multiple teams who've selected star players better than then that late (7th round+) during Timmins' tenure as head scout from 2003+. After all, to quote you, "Top scouts pick hidden stars. They may miss all the time, but they find the stars and pick them. TT does not, and never has, found a hidden star, ever."

Surely you won't have much trouble finding a boat load of teams that have more than two.
What is a hidden star anyway? We find visible stars? The ones that drop to 2nd rounders, 9th rounders and so on. It doesn't count though, because although Giroux was a 1st rounder, he was a hidden star, but PK, Pacioretty, Mcdonagh, Price, Halak and others, who are 1st line caliber players in the NHL, well everyone knew I guess, they were visible stars.

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07-12-2012, 10:21 AM
  #97
uiCk
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So Dags and Maxwell and Tender and Higgins and S kosty and Lapierre would have been stars if we had coached them better!

What a bunch of *****. You'd I think 22 year old NHL players need diapers.

They're mediocre players, and TT picked them, and many more of the same. He did not pick Datsyuk, Detroit did. Was Detroit lucky? No. They picked Datsyuk. TT did not.
Detroit picked up those players not Because they had a genius scout but because Detroit decided to scout Europe, something other teams were not doing. Dunno why you keep ignoring that fact. Oh yea, probably because that would mean all that useless text u keep writing is completely wrong.

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07-12-2012, 10:31 AM
  #98
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That makes no sense whatsoever.

Because he (and 28 other scouts) missed out on one player, it cancels out every other good move he (and consequently they) ever made?
No, about 12 other scouts missed on Giroux. The others did not have a chance at him.

And if you read my post, the argument here is that TT is a great scout. Well, If he's better than 90% of scouts, why did he miss a truly great player below the 10th pick?

I think he is a good scout, he's not a great one. Could be wrong. Gee.

BTW, I'm not saying he should be fired. I like his scouting in general. I'm being contrary because I don't believe TT is a great head scout, and no one else is on this thread agrees right now, and I trust you guys won't chop my head off for it. Geez.

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07-12-2012, 10:35 AM
  #99
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bsl, maybe it's time to step away from the forum for a little bit. Listen to the birds, and the rustling of leaves, and maybe rethink this whole thing you've got going on here.
Good advice. It's late where I am. I will be going to bed soon in fact. I just usually take anti TT positions, even though I may well be wrong. At least I riled things up for a while...

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07-12-2012, 10:40 AM
  #100
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No, about 12 other scouts missed on Giroux. The others did not have a chance at him.

And if you read my post, the argument here is that TT is a great scout. Well, If he's better than 90% of scouts, why did he miss a truly great player below the 10th pick?

I think he is a good scout, he's not a great one. Could be wrong. Gee.

BTW, I'm not saying he should be fired. I like his scouting in general. I'm being contrary because I don't believe TT is a great head scout, and no one else is on this thread agrees right now, and I trust you guys won't chop my head off for it. Geez.
If the other scouts that didn't have a shot at him didn't move up to grab such a gem, I suppose they fall in the category of 'they didn't draft Giroux, thus it negates all their good work' (p.s. more than 12 scouts missed out on Giroux)

One missed player does not a career negate.

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