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Old
07-12-2012, 11:57 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
There is also a lot of time to upgrade this team. It doesn't have to be right now. You can go into the trade deadline with tons of cap space and players like Laughton/Cousins look more attractive as does a 1st rd. pick.

Let the young forwards have control of the team as see what they can do with bigger roles. Briere should also have a bounce back year.

The defense has potential to be very good if all players play to their ability. Hopefully Meszaros is fully recovered and can return to the level he was at in '10-'11.

Finally, Bryzgalov is coming into his second year and should feel more comfortable. It should be good to not have a shakeup since he will be more comfortable with this lineup.

Assess the team's needs once December rolls around and then make your move.
Well said. IMO, the Flyers are just fine on paper. Unless something changes drastically in the trade market (it won't), stay the course. It will be easier to acquire talent at the trade deadline than it is right now. I think some people underestimate just how good of shape the roster is in.

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07-12-2012, 12:24 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Well said. IMO, the Flyers are just fine on paper. Unless something changes drastically in the trade market (it won't), stay the course. It will be easier to acquire talent at the trade deadline than it is right now. I think some people underestimate just how good of shape the roster is in.
you just dont get it, this is the same roster that played nj, they are not going anywhere, if the flyers are out of it at the trade deadline i doubt they are going to get any big players. im guessing you didnt follow the 06-07 season, they stayed the course it was a disaster because they didnt upgrade, has anyone learned from that season or are you just too stubborn?

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07-12-2012, 12:38 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
you just dont get it, this is the same roster that played nj, they are not going anywhere, if the flyers are out of it at the trade deadline i doubt they are going to get any big players. im guessing you didnt follow the 06-07 season, they stayed the course it was a disaster because they didnt upgrade, has anyone learned from that season or are you just too stubborn?

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07-12-2012, 12:49 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
you just dont get it, this is the same roster that played nj, they are not going anywhere, if the flyers are out of it at the trade deadline i doubt they are going to get any big players. im guessing you didnt follow the 06-07 season, they stayed the course it was a disaster because they didnt upgrade, has anyone learned from that season or are you just too stubborn?
After the 06-07 season we got a stud defenseman from Nashville. I'll take it.

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07-12-2012, 01:00 PM
  #905
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Patience is a pathway to many things the Flyers consider to be...unnatural.

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Old
07-12-2012, 01:17 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
what do you want to hear that the flyers are greatest team in the world despite the fact they got knocked out by the devils with the same roster minus jagr/jvr adding a third line player in ruslan?
No. But to claim that this team will go from a 2nd round playoff team to TERRRIBLEEZZ 4EVER is equally laughable.

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do you look this roster or do you have the illusion that schenn or court will be superstars?
Why won't they be superstars? Better yet, why do they NEED to be superstars? All we need is for them to be very good. Giroux is our superstar. They were good last season, and they're going to get better as they get experienced. That's what rookies do, you know. You act like these guys are 40 years old.

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i cant understand how people can look at this roster, the kings roster, or any teams roster to think the flyers have a better shot of winning a cup? are you people in denial or just dont care about winning?
How do you look at this roster, or any other team's roster, and think that they are so far superior to the Flyers? Our young players are a year matured. Bryz will more likely than not be better, if anything because it's nearly impossible to be worse. Most people think their players are better than other teams' players due to homerism. In a sick, odd Phillyish/trollish twist you've decided that your teams' players are horrible compared to everybody else's, with no justification given.

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that's a fact you just dont care about winning and more worried about having man crushes on younger players that might not do a damn thing for this team and have another failed season of blaming the goalie and not blaming yourselves because you dont want to get rid of young players.



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does anyone take the time to look at the other teams roster to think that maybe this team took a step back? because i dont understand why people are thinking that this team will get a cup despite getting their butts kicked by the devils that's pretty much the same roster.
Have you looked at any other rosters to notice that maybe those team's took a step back?

Here's a question: Why do we need to completely blow up the team because we were eliminated by one team, which objectively got worse with the loss of their captain? Why is this highly talented, young (which means they have room to grow and improve as they age and mature...which players do, you know, all the damned time in every damned sport) suddenly going to be awful?

Explain, with logical reasoning, why this season will be 06-07 all over again. Once you're done, please explain how we can prevent this impending disaster. You seem to think that bringing in a Nash, Semin, or Ryan will magically fix it all...that if we don't make a Big Move the whole season is doomed. Newsflash: if all our players are going to be awful next season, acquiring any of those players will do absolutely nothing to help or alleviate the problem.

The benefit to having a a team as young and talented as ours is that there is extra time to fill in the gaps. We don't have to worry about Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, Hartnell, etc getting too old to matter because for most of our core, that's still a good ways off.

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07-12-2012, 02:31 PM
  #907
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Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?

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07-12-2012, 02:37 PM
  #908
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overpayment.

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07-12-2012, 02:37 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?
Pass on that deal. If it's Voracek+Read, there better not be much else included.

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07-12-2012, 02:38 PM
  #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?
That would be horrible.

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Old
07-12-2012, 02:44 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
you just dont get it, this is the same roster that played nj, they are not going anywhere, if the flyers are out of it at the trade deadline i doubt they are going to get any big players. im guessing you didnt follow the 06-07 season, they stayed the course it was a disaster because they didnt upgrade, has anyone learned from that season or are you just too stubborn?
Couldn't help think of this...


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07-12-2012, 02:46 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?
And they throw in Getzlaf?

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07-12-2012, 02:53 PM
  #913
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i hope it's not Voracek and Read. I like Ryan and understand what difference from a goal scorer and playmaker bring but I would hope at the most it would Voracek or Read not both.

The more I read about Voracek's possible contract issue and the cost of signing him long term the more attractive Ryan becomes.

Voracek/Read, Bourdon, + 1st would be a good deal for the Flyers. Getting to keep Mez would be nice.

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07-12-2012, 02:58 PM
  #914
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Losing two roster players?

No thanks.

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Old
07-12-2012, 03:07 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Losing two roster players?

No thanks.
This.
Homer should be shot if he makes this trade.
You trade two 45point players for one 70point player, while giving up two of your better defensive forwards which is an obvious need for this team for a guy who's fairly week defensively.

I hope we don't make this deal to just satisfy Clarke.
I'd rather have Nash than Ryan.

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07-12-2012, 03:11 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
No. But to claim that this team will go from a 2nd round playoff team to TERRRIBLEEZZ 4EVER is equally laughable.

Have you looked at any other rosters to notice that maybe those team's took a step back?

Here's a question: Why do we need to completely blow up the team because we were eliminated by one team, which objectively got worse with the loss of their captain?
To piggyback on some of these points, I really can't see a top team in the East that has been a true winner in the free agency period compared to the way people are talking about Minnesota and Dallas in the West. I think everyone in the division took a small step back maybe with the exception of the Rangers, who in my opinion over acheived last year.

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07-12-2012, 03:12 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
This.
Homer should be shot if he makes this trade.
You trade two 45point players for one 70point player, while giving up two of your better defensive forwards which is an obvious need for this team for a guy who's fairly week defensively.

I hope we don't make this deal to just satisfy Clarke.
I'd rather have Nash than Ryan.

Actually curious to know why.

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07-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?
Depends on what the + is and who fills out the rest of our roster. MAB, as much as some people love him, is nothing special. We have probably three or four MAB type guys in this organization, and there are many more out there to be had on the cheap. Voracek is not as good as Ryan, despite what some people around seem to think because he is 22 years old. Read is a wild card. He could easily repeat his numbers, or have a disappointing sophomore season.

So, to me, it really depends on what that + is and who else fills out the roster. If the + is a big +, I probably wouldn't do it, unless the Flyers have someone signed to fill Read's shoes. If the plus is a little plus, then I think I would go for it even if there is no Read replacement at this point. Lots of ifs though.

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07-12-2012, 03:22 PM
  #919
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I agree that I'd rather have Nash than Ryan (in a vacuum). Let's be honest, Nash is an elite talent in the NHL. It's just the salary cap hit and the price Columbus is looking for is what turns me off.

When Nash is on his game, he is one of the most dominant forwards in the league. His ability to put up 300+ shots a season is also something I value quite a bit. Not many players can do that.

Ryan is terrific player, and all things considered, I'd be more happy making a play for him, but I do think Nash is an overall better player to have.


That said, any deal that involves Schenn or Couturier or Voracek+Read is a no go from me. Even giving up Voracek alone would be a tough sell for me. Read is an extremely useful player-- I dont consider him a throw in no matter who we are getting. His versatility and his price is something that I wouldnt give up easily.

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07-12-2012, 04:15 PM
  #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?
So that makes 3 roster players fo one ... hell noooo!

Bobby Ryan is born to be a Flyer but he won't make up for the combined loss of Voracek and Read. Flyers have plenty of potential 4th liners on the farm but not a single player they can just plug into a scoring line and we already have lost Jagr and JVR.

Unless they also find a way to sign some like Semin, this makes no sense....

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07-12-2012, 04:23 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
So that makes 3 roster players fo one ... hell noooo!

Bobby Ryan is born to be a Flyer but he won't make up for the combined loss of Voracek and Read. Flyers have plenty of potential 4th liners on the farm but not a single player they can just plug into a scoring line and we already have lost Jagr and JVR.

Unless they also find a way to sign some like Semin, this makes no sense....
Semin. Ryan. I thought we were trying to improve our team defense and ability to play the coaches system (hard working forecheck style). Not sure these guys are what I was thinking.

Guys who I think play well in this system: Giroux, Read, Voracek, Talbot, Wellwood, Hartnell, Schenn, Couturier, Rinaldo (sans penalties), Sestito (see Rinaldo)
Guys who didn't last year: JVR, Jagr, Briere, Simmonds

JVR and Jagr gone. Good news to me. Simmonds has two way potential. Briere moved to wing makes his lack of D less of a concern. IMO, You bring in Rick Nash or Shane Done. Huge improvement to the team (O and D). You bring in Bobby Ryan or Alex Semin, + on O - on D.

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07-12-2012, 04:56 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Semin. Ryan. I thought we were trying to improve our team defense and ability to play the coaches system (hard working forecheck style). Not sure these guys are what I was thinking.

Guys who I think play well in this system: Giroux, Read, Voracek, Talbot, Wellwood, Hartnell, Schenn, Couturier, Rinaldo (sans penalties), Sestito (see Rinaldo)
Guys who didn't last year: JVR, Jagr, Briere, Simmonds

JVR and Jagr gone. Good news to me. Simmonds has two way potential. Briere moved to wing makes his lack of D less of a concern. IMO, You bring in Rick Nash or Shane Done. Huge improvement to the team (O and D). You bring in Bobby Ryan or Alex Semin, + on O - on D.

Why would Semin be a negative on D again? Especially compared to Nash or Doan, who will be slower of foot for a team that wants to play a high-tempo pressure game?

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07-12-2012, 05:20 PM
  #923
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Why would Semin be a negative on D again? Especially compared to Nash or Doan, who will be slower of foot for a team that wants to play a high-tempo pressure game?
In what world is Nash slow? I don't think that's at all because he's slow. Definitely a faster and better skater than Hartnell who thrived in our system.

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07-12-2012, 05:47 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Eklund is the flyers are still the most likely landing spot for Ryan.

Supposed deal is read, voracek, bourdon, +

Thoughts?
Way too much.

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Old
07-12-2012, 05:50 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post

Here's a question: Why do we need to completely blow up the team because we were eliminated by one team, which objectively got worse with the loss of their captain? Why is this highly talented, young (which means they have room to grow and improve as they age and mature...which players do, you know, all the damned time in every damned sport) suddenly going to be awful?
Thank you. Yes, we lost to the Devils. But I think that any realistic assessment of that series has to address some basic facts working against the Flyers. Yes, Kovalchuk was playing hurt, but so were:

Giroux (double wrist surgery)
Jagr (groin/hip issue)
Hartnell (bad foot in the last games)
JVR (infected surgically repaired broken foot)
Simmonds (surgery on broken finger)
Couturier (foot/knee? and possible concussion)
Briere (back injury from last game, was never right)

Timonen (back surgery and sore knee)
Carle (surgery on stomach muscle)
Meszaros (only played last game - back surgery)
Grossmann (concussion/knee)
Lilja (had a minor injury vs. Pens)
Kubina (undisclosed, but you could tell he was hurt - ribs? shoulder?
Bourdon (out with concussion)

Bryzgalov (chipped bone in foot)

Who have I forgot? I'm sure there were a lot of other undiagnosed injuries too, including Schenn having a concussion after Asham's cheapshot.

The fact is that the Flyers took so many uncalled cheapshots against the Pens that they weren't healthy enough to beat a good Devils team coming off a pattycake-pattycake series with the Panthers. Our entire D was decimated, and no one can win like that. Gus and Coburn were the only ones who didn't appear to be playing hurt.

In the absence of burning hatred, the boring Devils just let the injured Flyerdogs lie, to their credit. The Devils were also good enough to beat a very good Ranger team. Now they've lost their captain.

I really hope Homer doesn't lose his mind and trade a Voracek for Ryan. We need to keep Jake. I would think about dealing Read and Meszaros or Simmonds, if necessary, but not JV. And if we're giving away that package, I'd almost sooner get Bouwmeester instead.

Keep the kids!

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