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DAL trades Ott/Pardy to BUF for Roy

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07-11-2012, 09:43 PM
  #376
Starsdude
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
You were bound to freak out about it eventually, you always do.

And yes, I've been around the trade boards and that IS a joke of a proposal. It's sometimes hard for me to tell what an ultimate Stars contrarian considers a joke rather than what I would just consider a stupid opinion. My apologies.


First thanks. True I have been a gmjn detractor although I am not sure I am the ultimate one. I did post positively on a draft I think was solid and not hey we are smarter than the rest of the league which I think is how the previous few appeared (although unprepared is another explanation). I called the jagr deal inspired and liked Whitney because money should not matter to a new owner who has to rebuild a market. The Roy deal is just bad though. Again ott was likely gone but he could have been gone last season at the deadline or anytime but you had to get a piece , an importent piece. So far Newy is living off getting a goalie that decided he better work or go back to Europe but that is really on let's not newy to put in the effort. At the time , we neede a goalie , he was cheap and available. He record outside that is poor, period and now I think his credibility is to at least to the fan base and in a town where hockey has struggled that matters. I hope the surgery is minor but shoulders are a big red flag generally


Last edited by Starsdude: 07-12-2012 at 08:09 AM.
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07-11-2012, 09:48 PM
  #377
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They weren't going to get an important piece for a $3+ million 11 goal scorer.

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07-11-2012, 09:53 PM
  #378
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Why does everything need to have a blame? This is an unfortunate situation that they're making the best of. That's all there is to it.

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07-11-2012, 10:01 PM
  #379
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They weren't going to get an important piece for a $3+ million 11 goal scorer.
I would say that against the odds they managed to.

The expectations of what Ott would/could return seem to have been getting outlandish. Honestly, in the position the Stars are in right now I'm glad they made this a summer trade because a piece like Roy wouldn't have been available from a team in the stretch drive and I personally would rather have a guy under 30 who can put up points like he can than a decent prospect and a 2nd or late 1st round pick.

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07-11-2012, 10:01 PM
  #380
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Why does everything need to have a blame? This is an unfortunate situation that they're making the best of. That's all there is to it.
I agree completely, and I am among those who lament the trade of Ott the most.

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07-11-2012, 10:11 PM
  #381
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I'm a big fan of Ott and always thought he'd be an almost elite 3rd liner. But it's still pretty obvious that (looking at it for now) Roy is a better and more important piece than Ott. Pardy really is pointless IMO.

Roy represents GMJN's risk-taking ability the way I see it. We trade a guy who could be a bottom 6 fixture for most of his career for a recently oft-injured but highly skilled center. Him being a UFA next year makes it that much more of a risk, as he may test the market next year.

If you don't like this trade, then you don't like that the team is taking a risk. And you don't build a championship team without taking a few risks, whether it be through a trade, drafting, or signings.

Meh, just what I'm feeling.

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07-11-2012, 10:50 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I would say that against the odds they managed to.

The expectations of what Ott would/could return seem to have been getting outlandish. Honestly, in the position the Stars are in right now I'm glad they made this a summer trade because a piece like Roy wouldn't have been available from a team in the stretch drive and I personally would rather have a guy under 30 who can put up points like he can than a decent prospect and a 2nd or late 1st round pick.
They got a guy on the last year of his deal who has struggled with injuries. The upside on Roy is fantastic, but he carried a big risk, which is why it didn't take much to get him.

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07-12-2012, 03:27 AM
  #383
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They got a guy on the last year of his deal who has struggled with injuries. The upside on Roy is fantastic, but he carried a big risk, which is why it didn't take much to get him.
Right, I mean it is what it is. A healthy 65 point season from Roy would have put him out of the Ott price range.

Personally, I don't think they viewed the one year remaining as a negative. They have first crack at extending him if it's a good fit or can let him go and work in Faksa in a year or so. The upside is they get out of Ott's contract earlier than they would have.

None of that means Roy can't be seen as an "important piece."

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07-12-2012, 08:13 AM
  #384
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Maybe Roy will be an important piece but with a short season and shoulder issues I cannot say that now. It may be equally likely Roy struggles all season due to health related issues which were billed as over just one week ago. At some point, Newy needs to deliver a trade win other than Lets which again was more a player who saw his NHL window closing and did something about it rather than Newy's genius.

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07-12-2012, 08:37 AM
  #385
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I guess the injury is bad enough that they feel like the best derek roy they can get is one who misses all of training camp and a month of the regular season. It seems to be guys who do that are really behind the 8 ball for a good portion of the season. I would not be at all surprised to see Roy struggle greatly with chemistry with his linemates for quite awhile.
You are 100% correct. It took Roy a long time to get back to a portion of him self and he still was not 100% by the end of the season last yr. This seems like it was a steal for Buffalo now. Like you said Roy will be out all of training camp. A good portion of the season. Then will definitely struggle with chemistry with his line mates for quite a while. And who is to say he will be even 100 % after the surgery? All i have to say is you guys will not be happy when he starts playing because it will take a while again for him to get back to where he was once before. I hope he can get back to his old self again and help you guys make a run for the cup though. Good luck Roy with the surgery. It would be nice for Buffalo to make the finals against the Stars in the Stanley Cup. Hopefully this time Buffalo wins though. Good luck Stars. Hope everything pans out.

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07-12-2012, 09:28 AM
  #386
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I like the angle that Sturm tweeted about saying that it was a sign of good faith by the organization and gives the Stars a lot of leverage if we do indeed wish to re-sign Roy after the season by letting him get the surgery now so Roy can be at his absolute best.

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07-12-2012, 09:34 AM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsdude View Post
Maybe Roy will be an important piece but with a short season and shoulder issues I cannot say that now. It may be equally likely Roy struggles all season due to health related issues which were billed as over just one week ago. At some point, Newy needs to deliver a trade win other than Lets which again was more a player who saw his NHL window closing and did something about it rather than Newy's genius.
Cause getting voted as the winner on HFboards in trades directly correlates into team success?

The trade is simple. You trade a 7th dman who you already replaced with a cheaper option in Rome. Plus a strong 3rd line LW/C who had points in 38% of his games and led your team in Pims for the 5th straight year for a guy who has averaged 20g and produced points in roughly 75% of his games.

And if Roy does not recover, then he will be allowed to leave and you will not only have his $ but also the remainder of Ott's salary off the books to look for a replacement, or perhaps promote from within and have the $ to spend on other upgrades.

So obviously the biggest concern is whether Roy can return to pre-injury level.... And now people are complaining when they tell him to do everything he can to be fully healthy........

And for the other comment, I will gladly worry about finding chemistry instead of playing a player who flat out did not have the skill for line 2 like last season.

This all doesn't even take into account the fact that the season may not begin as scheduled anyways either.

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07-12-2012, 09:39 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by AlexanderMogilny89 View Post
You are 100% correct. It took Roy a long time to get back to a portion of him self and he still was not 100% by the end of the season last yr. This seems like it was a steal for Buffalo now. Like you said Roy will be out all of training camp. A good portion of the season. Then will definitely struggle with chemistry with his line mates for quite a while. And who is to say he will be even 100 % after the surgery? All i have to say is you guys will not be happy when he starts playing because it will take a while again for him to get back to where he was once before. I hope he can get back to his old self again and help you guys make a run for the cup though. Good luck Roy with the surgery. It would be nice for Buffalo to make the finals against the Stars in the Stanley Cup. Hopefully this time Buffalo wins though. Good luck Stars. Hope everything pans out.
He was still not healthy at the end of last season. He had this shoulder pain that he is having repaired now. He just played through it last year.

And also, the injury he was recovering from was a major leg injury. Not saying the shoulder is minor but shouldn't have as much affect as the leg injury on his ability to get back to full speed. Thanks to the recovery time and the end of the season, he was trying to come back from not playing hockey for 10 months basically while this will only be around 6 months total.

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07-12-2012, 10:02 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Ambassador Of Fun View Post
I like the angle that Sturm tweeted about saying that it was a sign of good faith by the organization and gives the Stars a lot of leverage if we do indeed wish to re-sign Roy after the season by letting him get the surgery now so Roy can be at his absolute best.
eh I think that is wishful thinking. Roy is going to decide where to sign based on money like everyone else. At best I think it has a minimal impact and certainly doesnt provide any leverage.

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07-12-2012, 10:25 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'm a big fan of Ott and always thought he'd be an almost elite 3rd liner. But it's still pretty obvious that (looking at it for now) Roy is a better and more important piece than Ott. Pardy really is pointless IMO.

Roy represents GMJN's risk-taking ability the way I see it. We trade a guy who could be a bottom 6 fixture for most of his career for a recently oft-injured but highly skilled center. Him being a UFA next year makes it that much more of a risk, as he may test the market next year.

If you don't like this trade, then you don't like that the team is taking a risk. And you don't build a championship team without taking a few risks, whether it be through a trade, drafting, or signings.

Meh, just what I'm feeling.
Elite 3rd liner seems like an oxymoron

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07-12-2012, 11:00 AM
  #391
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At some point, Newy needs to deliver a trade win other than Lets which again was more a player who saw his NHL window closing and did something about it rather than Newy's genius.
The fact that you and some others can't give Nieuwendyk full credit for the Lehtonen trade is pretty sad. You can't put all of Lehtonen's success and change of preparation on him without giving some credit to a GM who traded for a guy expecting the player to make such a revelation.

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07-12-2012, 11:23 AM
  #392
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Elite 3rd liner seems like an oxymoron
I guess. Bolland, Bozak, Ott, etc. if that group makes sense.

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07-12-2012, 11:53 AM
  #393
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The fact that you and some others can't give Nieuwendyk full credit for the Lehtonen trade is pretty sad. You can't put all of Lehtonen's success and change of preparation on him without giving some credit to a GM who traded for a guy expecting the player to make such a revelation.
Ok lets say it is a great trade greatest in Stars history (which is absurd because we still have not been to the playoffs with this "Elite Goalie") , the fact remains under Newy's watch we have had draft issues and no playoffs. He failed to properly understand that we were not a playoff team the last 2 years which affected how we approached the deadline. He fired a very good coach and hired one poor one and one who is/was not ready for primetime. Again, I gave him the benefit of the doubt this off-season but Roy's condition makes him look ill prepared and uninformed like many of his earlier actions.

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07-12-2012, 12:06 PM
  #394
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I guess. Bolland, Bozak, Ott, etc. if that group makes sense.
I wouldn't put Ott in the same category as Bolland (despite his propensity to get injured). The former absolutely lacks the skills and smarts that makes the latter more effective.

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07-12-2012, 12:15 PM
  #395
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Ok lets say it is a great trade greatest in Stars history (which is absurd because we still have not been to the playoffs with this "Elite Goalie") , the fact remains under Newy's watch we have had draft issues and no playoffs. He failed to properly understand that we were not a playoff team the last 2 years which affected how we approached the deadline. He fired a very good coach and hired one poor one and one who is/was not ready for primetime. Again, I gave him the benefit of the doubt this off-season but Roy's condition makes him look ill prepared and uninformed like many of his earlier actions.
I will agree on the fact that, under him, the team has been confused as to whether it is rebuilding and undergoing a cultural change or one that is trying to make the playoffs and being moderately solvent while the ownership issue clears up. I think it was a gross oversight on JN's part to fire the one coach who could've gotten a mediocre squad into the playoffs- as he has demonstrated with the Yotes- even if they couldn't guarantee success in it ( and no, I'm not buying that Hicks hired him to fire Tippett). And very truly said, neither of his replacements have done a good job.

As for Roy, it seems like there is some amount of oversight. They knew (as per DBD) that he had shoulder issues (he played with it all last season), but they probably didn't know it was severe enough to hamper him in the long run. However, from the looks of it, by telling him to fix it surgically, they are showing that they care about a Dallas Star and want to potentially retain him for a longer haul. Personally, I like that. So, lets just wait and see what happens.

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07-12-2012, 12:16 PM
  #396
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You are 100% correct. It took Roy a long time to get back to a portion of him self and he still was not 100% by the end of the season last yr. This seems like it was a steal for Buffalo now. Like you said Roy will be out all of training camp. A good portion of the season. Then will definitely struggle with chemistry with his line mates for quite a while. And who is to say he will be even 100 % after the surgery? All i have to say is you guys will not be happy when he starts playing because it will take a while again for him to get back to where he was once before. I hope he can get back to his old self again and help you guys make a run for the cup though. Good luck Roy with the surgery. It would be nice for Buffalo to make the finals against the Stars in the Stanley Cup. Hopefully this time Buffalo wins though. Good luck Stars. Hope everything pans out.
You haven't stolen anything yet. Wait till the season begins.

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07-12-2012, 12:24 PM
  #397
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Brandon Worley's take:

"I don’t this this was a case of the Stars “not catching the issue” or the Sabres “not catching the issue.” I think this is something Roy and the team has known about for a long time, especially when I’m told by Sabres fans he’s been wearing special shoulder pads for years now. [since 2008, presumably]

Instead, the Stars get a closer look at him and determine that while he’s been playing through the issue it’s something that may become a much bigger issue next year or the year after and he’d miss more of an actual season than he would now. So the doctors suggested getting the surgery now and the Stars go along with it, seeing it as a show of faith in Roy as a long term asset for the team and the fact they’d like for him to be fully healthy when he returns.

That’s why he didn’t have surgery with the Sabres, because the team didn’t feel the same way about the injury as the Stars obviously do. This isn’t about “missing” anything, this was about different opinions between teams on how to deal with a specific issue with his shoulder.

I think the actual issue here is making that decision that Roy is a long-term option when he hasn’t even played a game for the organization yet.
"


I agree.

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07-12-2012, 12:34 PM
  #398
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As a Buffalo fan, I didn't like this deal originally. But Roy missing maybe 25 games changes thinking. We get an extra year of Ott. Sabres need a fast start and Roy injury is not something team can afford. Perhaps Dallas can.
As for Pardy, owner's money working for Buffalo. Dude is off to minors likely. How an earth did he get a contract for $2 million per. Seriously, that's nuts.

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07-12-2012, 12:37 PM
  #399
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As a Buffalo fan, I didn't like this deal originally. But Roy missing maybe 25 games changes thinking. We get an extra year of Ott. Sabres need a fast start and Roy injury is not something team can afford. Perhaps Dallas can.
As for Pardy, owner's money working for Buffalo. Dude is off to minors likely. How an earth did he get a contract for $2 million per. Seriously, that's nuts.
And I'm compelled to believe that many a Sabre fan did not like the deal (based on the hatred for Roy spewed over these pages). What were you expecting for him? A Roy-package for Ryan from Anaheim?

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07-12-2012, 01:10 PM
  #400
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How an earth did he get a contract for $2 million per. Seriously, that's nuts.
The Stars needed to spend money to hit the cap floor.

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