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Roberto Luongo XXII - Quantam of SoLuuuuuce [Mod Warning post 540]

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Old
07-12-2012, 02:02 PM
  #1001
rune74
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Because there's no shame in losing a job to an all-star goalie who has been nominated for the Vezina and brought a team to the Cup finals just two years ago? Losing doesn't mean you suck, it means the other guy is better. Schneider had value as a back up. He had value as a 1B. If he loses the starting position, he will still have value.
Exactly this, it means they are both good goalie.

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07-12-2012, 02:03 PM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Of course, but Toronto wouldn't offer Kadri as the prospect in "Bozak+2nd+prospect" if they wouldn't accept Bozak+Kadri. So Colborne is the minimum prospect I'd be happy with.
Yea I would be happy with a deal like that.

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07-12-2012, 02:04 PM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That's fine. Then I don't see a deal with Toronto being done.

Like someone mentioned above, it doesn't hurt to have Luongo and Schneider back here next season. GMMG and Lu both agree that it's time to move on, but I doubt you'll see him dumped. If he comes back and wins the job back then we keep him. If not, then Schneider would have proven to be a top goalie who can handle the job. Nothing wrong with an insurance policy.
Think about what you are asking for. Our 1st line center, our 1st line winger and our 1st round pick. You are offering Raymond who holds low value and a goalie, who is good, hasn't won a cup or Vezina and whether rightfully or not is called a playoff bust. I think he is a very good goalie, but he wouldn't replace the 110+ offensive points we lose in this deal.

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07-12-2012, 02:05 PM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Not only that, Schneider is no longer on a cheap ELC. He's making 4 mil over the next 3 years. If he's not performing well his value will be very low.
Guaranteed contract for 3 years, with a cap hit that is still lower than most goalies. I'd say his 3 year deal makes him more valuable right now than a 1 year 2m contract.

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07-12-2012, 02:06 PM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I don't for a second believe that Luongo feels that Schneider is a better goaltender than he is .
Of course not. But he believes Schneider is a very good goalie that deserves a starting role, and also understands that he has earned that spot in Vancouver.

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07-12-2012, 02:07 PM
  #1006
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Are we out of James Bond Movies yet?

Star Wars next? Roberto Luongo IV: The Empire Strikes Lack?

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07-12-2012, 02:07 PM
  #1007
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Just because Bozak was on the Leafs top line by default doesn't make him a first liner, or even a top 6 forward.

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I don't for a second believe that Luongo feels that Schneider is a better goaltender than he is .
Neither do I, which is why I believe that he'll win the starting job by December and Schneider will be dealt for a good return.

Has Gillis stated to the media that Schneider is the guy yet? Because if Gillis has not, then Schneider still might not be the guy. Gillis did and said what he had to in order for Schneider to re-sign. I very much doubt that Gillis eliminates any of his options.

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
It would be Colborne sir, Franson only has value to us as a number 8 defenseman with potential (based on where he would land on our roster). I know he's better then that on almost any team, but under the circumstances, I will take the big project center.
To be honest I don't see the need for Colborne. I think we have a slightly better version of him in Gaunce.

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Just because Bozak was on the Leafs top line by default doesn't make him a first liner, or even a top 6 forward.
He's not even the Leafs best C.

He'd be your 2nd C with Kesler out, and with him back would be your 3rd.

God, I want this **** to be over.

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Just because Bozak was on the Leafs top line by default doesn't make him a first liner, or even a top 6 forward.
Sadly, he is for our team, thus, we can't move him until we upgrade him

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why do you want to get rid of Schroeder in almost any proposal? And we don't need b-prospects like Ashton or whoever the 2nd will be.
The way I look at it, if were bringing in Kadri, it bumps Schroeder down to the #2 spot as far as centers go. So it makes it unlikely that Schroeder gets a chance to see much/any NHL action. With Gaunce also being drafted this year, in 3-4 years he could be ready so its not like center is a huge area of weakness.

Im not looking to get rid of Schroeder, I just figure him and Ashton are comparable players as far as value goes. He just gives us another decent wing prospect, who is of similar value to Schroeder.



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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Agreed. Take out Schroeder and Kadri or Ashton. Still don't take it though.
I really look at the trade as Kadri + Connolly + 2nd for Luongo, and then Ashton for Schroeder.

It doesn't kill Toronto's center depth, but Vancouver improves its prospect pool.

I just figure if a trade is going to involve Kadri, I would rather have Kadri + Ashton than Kadri + Schroeder. Just spreads the talent out a bit more positionally.

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1013
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
What the hell is happening with this guy? Are teams showing any real interest, or is he and his agent throwing up obstacles?

If you represented your team, would you give up much to get Luongo?
If my team was on the cusp of contending ("This trade will win us the CUP"), with goaltending being the only hole.
I would give up a blue chip prospect and a 1st/2nd pick.

If my team was 2-3 years away from becoming a contender, I would try and get him at reduced cost i.e. "nice" prospects that I won't miss. The tier just below blue chip. Plus, maybe I have some NHL player that fills a need in Van. Throw in a draft pick of some sort. ("Get us into the playoffs trade")

If my team was in rebuilding mode, I would attempt to do the above. But since I'm rebuilding I can't trade prospects and picks. And if my team is already bad, do I even have NHL assests that Vancouver values on their team ? Probably not. ("Makes the team more watchable trade")

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07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Just because Bozak was on the Leafs top line by default doesn't make him a first liner, or even a top 6 forward.
Great work Columbo. On the Canucks he'd be able to fill in for Kesler while he is out, and provide a solid option as the #3 C.

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07-12-2012, 02:12 PM
  #1015
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Just because Bozak was on the Leafs top line by default doesn't make him a first liner, or even a top 6 forward.
But he is to us, atleast right now. You have to look at a trade from the perspective of both sides.
We don't become a better team by trading 2/3 of our first line.

now Bozak could be available and we don't expect anywhere near first line center value for him but the trade Y2Canucks proposed is preposterous.

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07-12-2012, 02:12 PM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by Maximus74 View Post
Ok.. I'm not even sure I want Luongo on the Leafs, but here is the offer...

Conditional 2013 draft pick - 1rst if Leafs make playoffs, 2nd if they don't.
Lombardi or Connolly (salary)
Kadri OR Colbourne
Connolly, Kadri and conditional 1st works for me.

I've been aiming for something similar to this, but I don't think either side would get butt-hurt over this.

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07-12-2012, 02:12 PM
  #1017
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
The way I look at it, if were bringing in Kadri, it bumps Schroeder down to the #2 spot as far as centers go. So it makes it unlikely that Schroeder gets a chance to see much/any NHL action. With Gaunce also being drafted this year, in 3-4 years he could be ready so its not like center is a huge area of weakness.

Im not looking to get rid of Schroeder, I just figure him and Ashton are comparable players as far as value goes. He just gives us another decent wing prospect, who is of similar value to Schroeder.





I really look at the trade as Kadri + Connolly + 2nd for Luongo, and then Ashton for Schroeder.

It doesn't kill Toronto's center depth, but Vancouver improves its prospect pool.

I just figure if a trade is going to involve Kadri, I would rather have Kadri + Ashton than Kadri + Schroeder. Just spreads the talent out a bit more positionally.
Center is a very important position to have not just depth in, but to be overflowing in depth.

4 years from now, Henrik will be 36 and Kesler will be 32. If both those players are still Canucks, there's no guarantee they will still be at the same level they are now. Center depth is very important.

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07-12-2012, 02:15 PM
  #1018
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Originally Posted by Champions of Nothing View Post
Of course not. But he believes Schneider is a very good goalie that deserves a starting role, and also understands that he has earned that spot in Vancouver.
Schneider has definitely not earned the starting job over Luongo. Luongo has spent 6 years being one of our best players. Schneider outplayed him in one playoff series. Gillis is keeping Raymond and Malhotra around because he understands one year doesn't make a career. He kept Bieksa around despite his bad years. He kept Rome around even after the hit against Horton. He is keeping Ballard around despite his last two years here. Gillis is not a man who takes a small sample of games, or even one or two seasons, to decide a player's worth.

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07-12-2012, 02:15 PM
  #1019
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
If my team was on the cusp of contending ("This trade will win us the CUP"), with goaltending being the only hole.
I would give up a blue chip prospect and a 1st/2nd pick.

If my team was 2-3 years away from becoming a contender, I would try and get him at reduced cost i.e. "nice" prospects that I won't miss. The tier just below blue chip. Plus, maybe I have some NHL player that fills a need in Van. Throw in a draft pick of some sort. ("Get us into the playoffs trade")

If my team was in rebuilding mode, I would attempt to do the above. But since I'm rebuilding I can't trade prospects and picks. And if my team is already bad, do I even have NHL assests that Vancouver values on their team ? Probably not. ("Makes the team more watchable trade")
The two obvious suitors fill into the second category. For the first category that could be Chicago, but I doubt they are serious about acquiring Luongo.

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07-12-2012, 02:15 PM
  #1020
cyris
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
To my fellow Van fans:

To Tor:
Roberto Luongo (5.3M)

To Van:
Tyler Bozak (1.5M)
Korbinian Holzer (575K)
2013 2nd rounder (46th-50th likely)
I think the Leafs need to add a bit. Maybe Colbourne or one of our d prospects like Blacker, Percey or Finn.

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07-12-2012, 02:17 PM
  #1021
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With Kadri fnally taking his offseason seriously, training with Gary Roberts, he may finally start to deliver on his early promise. Not sure of he is reliable enough defensivelyto play center, but if he adds strength and bulk, he may beable to patrol the wing with a bit more authority.

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07-12-2012, 02:18 PM
  #1022
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Connolly, Kadri and conditional 1st works for me.

I've been aiming for something similar to this, but I don't think either side would get butt-hurt over this.
Yup. Although it should be a top 10 conditional, as there needs to be some security on the most valuable piece coming back.

EDIT: Question for Leaf fans: Apart from salary, who's better, Bozak or Connolly?

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07-12-2012, 02:19 PM
  #1023
Art of Sedinery
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Schneider has definitely not earned the starting job over Luongo. Luongo has spent 6 years being one of our best players. Schneider outplayed him in one playoff series. Gillis is keeping Raymond and Malhotra around because he understands one year doesn't make a career. He kept Bieksa around despite his bad years. He kept Rome around even after the hit against Horton. He is keeping Ballard around despite his last two years here. Gillis is not a man who takes a small sample of games, or even one or two seasons, to decide a player's worth.
Huge difference between Raymond/Malhotra/Ballard/Rome/Bieksa.

Getting rid of them would have meant not re-signing them. Trading them would yield very little return. If Gillis wanted to move Schneider, the return would be very substantial, arguably more than that of the return for Luongo.

It's easy to keep the guys above. If he didn't think Schneider could be a starting goalie for the Canucks, he would have moved him by now, or at least we'd here a lot more rumors about him being shopped.

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07-12-2012, 02:22 PM
  #1024
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New thread time!

IT'S HERE! IT'S HERE!

Wooooooooo!

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07-12-2012, 02:23 PM
  #1025
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Yup. Although it should be a top 10 conditional, as there needs to be some security on the most valuable piece coming back.

EDIT: Question for Leaf fans: Apart from salary, who's better, Bozak or Connolly?
Personally I'd take Bozak. Better on faceoffs, not injury prone.
Connolly is more talented and we wouldn't expect any value in return for him tho.

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