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Old
07-10-2012, 10:14 PM
  #101
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
Since there doesn't seem to be one, I'm making a spreadsheet for my own use that will be sort of a roster. Will post on google docs when done.

It lists all NHL coaches, and all players with 5 or more years of NHL experience (This seemed to be the best tradeoff - most of you should know the good young players from the last few years, and weeds out a lot of fringe players). I'm also highlighting all the guys selected in the ATD already.

Will post to google docs when done.
Somebody who likes to make spreadsheets and do research? You'll fit right in

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07-10-2012, 10:44 PM
  #102
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I'm in this year as the Chicago Blaze

Don't have time to participate, but I had to comment on this team name...such an obscure reference...one of the rinks I've been playing beer league hockey at for years now was the Blaze's home rink during their short existence. Any personal connection to this team tony, or did you just like the name and logo?

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07-10-2012, 10:44 PM
  #103
Zombie Mike Murphy
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Spreadsheet is now available!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0xmUnFOYXgtcXc

Use at your own risk, I make no guarantees.

Those highlighted in teal are all drafted during the 2012 ATD (and thus unavailable).

Contains ALL NHL coaches, ALL players with at least 5 NHL or WHA seasons accrued, and everyone else drafted in the ATD and not otherwise in the data (mostly Soviet-era players, plus some real oldtimers).

Contains 4 Sheets: Coaches, Forwards, Defensemen, and Goalies

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07-11-2012, 01:43 AM
  #104
tarheelhockey
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How much does a player's longevity factor into this game?

Say I choose Tomas Kaberle. Am I getting the Leafs star, or does his Hurricanes-era baggage factor in?

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07-11-2012, 02:20 AM
  #105
Selfish Man
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Any player you select is judged on the totality of his career, highs and lows.

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07-11-2012, 03:47 AM
  #106
tarheelhockey
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Any player you select is judged on the totality of his career, highs and lows.
For the sake of playoff matchups, which one are you working with strategically? The player at his best or at his worst?

Again with Kaberle, would be be considered an elite puck-mover with a mediocre defensive game... or the guy who passes the puck to the other team and then is too lazy/winded to get back and defend?

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07-11-2012, 07:14 AM
  #107
VanIslander
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
For the sake of playoff matchups, which one are you working with strategically? The player at his best or at his worst?
Both! That is, we don't know which version will show up if a player was inconsistent. In a seven game series one can assume a couple of games of peak play, a few games of mediocre play, from a player with such a career, or, at least it's a question mark which is factored into one's reflections. A team with too many question marks isn't likely going to instill confidence.

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Old
07-11-2012, 09:27 AM
  #108
Mike Farkas
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I had a similar question but much more extreme...Pelle Lindbergh. Really just one season as a starter and it was adjudged to be the best at his position. And anecdotally, most Flyers fans I ask from that era (and some non-Flyers fans as well) suggest that even in the face of Hextall's losing effort Conn Smythe in '87 that if the Flyers had Lindbergh they would have won. While that may be favorable lore, how does a player like Lindbergh fair in a situation like this...? He was never bad...

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07-11-2012, 10:11 AM
  #109
VanIslander
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I had a similar question but much more extreme...Pelle Lindbergh. Really just one season as a starter and it was adjudged to be the best at his position. And anecdotally, most Flyers fans I ask from that era (and some non-Flyers fans as well) suggest that even in the face of Hextall's losing effort Conn Smythe in '87 that if the Flyers had Lindbergh they would have won. While that may be favorable lore, how does a player like Lindbergh fair in a situation like this...? He was never bad...
Career length, like career peak and consistency, are among the many factors one weighs. OF COURSE the shortness of his career counts against him. He is better as a backup than a starter unless one has one hellavu decent backup to cover for him. A starting goalie who had a decent but not great long career is a reliable starter; a starter who had a very short career is unreliable, might be great, might not even play long!

In a hypothetical all-time context, ALL the strengths and weaknesses of a player are under consideration. There is no short cut formula. One cannot ignore career length to determine greatness. His career was short. Would he have gone on to havea solid long career of greatness or fade out like many young goalies who have a great year or two do? We simply don't know. It's a question mark, a knock against him. So the height of his peak has to be weighed against the length of his career, among other factors.

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:04 AM
  #110
Mike Farkas
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Understood. Thank you.

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:18 PM
  #111
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Both! That is, we don't know which version will show up if a player was inconsistent. In a seven game series one can assume a couple of games of peak play, a few games of mediocre play, from a player with such a career, or, at least it's a question mark which is factored into one's reflections. A team with too many question marks isn't likely going to instill confidence.
Right. Now keep in mind that if we're comparing Kaberle to someone else who had only about the same number of "good" seasons, then his steep dropoff might not come into play in that comparison. And typically we are forgiving about the very start and end of a player's career and want to judge them in their best period (might be 3 years, might be 10, really depends on the player). basically when it's appropriate, it's appropriate. That doesn't really add much to your answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I had a similar question but much more extreme...Pelle Lindbergh. Really just one season as a starter and it was adjudged to be the best at his position. And anecdotally, most Flyers fans I ask from that era (and some non-Flyers fans as well) suggest that even in the face of Hextall's losing effort Conn Smythe in '87 that if the Flyers had Lindbergh they would have won. While that may be favorable lore, how does a player like Lindbergh fair in a situation like this...? He was never bad...
Since we're looking at a microcosm of a player's career we will see a little bit of everything they did over the course of a season. I like to look at Steve Yzerman and Scott Stevens as examples here. They each had an offensive phase and a defensive phase. I like to think that over the course of an ATD season they each have the ability to "shapeshift" as needed by being very valuable offensively or defensively at one time, or, you could say they are splitting the difference in both regards, and you could say Yzerman is consistently performing like a "90 point, pretty good defensively" player. (it translates to the ATD differently of course, because in that context he is only about an average 1st line center so he may be a 70 point player over a full year, but I think you see my point). There is no right answer, but I think the above is a logical way to look at it.

Injury riddled careers translate to an injury-riddled season in the ATD. I honestly think it is as simple as looking at what percentage of games a player missed during their regular season and playoff primes. You can get credit for how good a player was when they were on the ice (as in, judge them on a per-game basis) but then you must concede they will miss x number of regular season games and maybe 1-3 games in a 7 game series in some extreme cases.

Shortened careers, whatever the reason, will lead to injuries and inconsistency over an ATD season, as VI alluded to. As it applies to a guy like Lindbergh I think it means that over the course of an MLD season he has the potential to be as good as any goalie in the league, but he sure isn't going to do it night in, night out, and you can't count on him to start 70 games without seeing a drop in his performance.

The above two philosophies are entirely my own, developed through the considering of well-stated cases by others over the years. You are free to develop your own philosophies and share them with us too, and continue to shape the collective mindset for the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
In a hypothetical all-time context, ALL the strengths and weaknesses of a player are under consideration. There is no short cut formula. One cannot ignore career length to determine greatness. His career was short. Would he have gone on to havea solid long career of greatness or fade out like many young goalies who have a great year or two do? We simply don't know. It's a question mark, a knock against him. So the height of his peak has to be weighed against the length of his career, among other factors.
Yeah. And as far as Lindbergh goes, I look really at what happened on the ice and very little what-if. So if there was a goalie with his similar 2-3 year regular season and playoff peak, and then a severe dropoff (like, say, he was nothing more than an average to below-average starting goalie for another decade) - I say, "well, at least he was a starting goalie for another decade!" Maybe it's not much in terms of adding to the resume, but it does provide a Lipton Sidekicks to the meat on the plate, and it's sure better than being dead and not playing in the NHL, as cruel as that sounds.

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Old
07-11-2012, 01:25 PM
  #112
Mike Farkas
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Thanks for the follow-up 70's. Makes sense, I'm excited to be a part of this...even if I get blown out here as a rookie haha...

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07-11-2012, 05:41 PM
  #113
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Sign-up List (14 in, 2 more ideally to go with 16):

Velociraptor & Dwight - Sherbrooke Castors
Hedberg - Connecticut Whale
Hobnobs - Winnipeg Monarchs
BringBackScuderi & vecens24 - Pittsburgh Duquesne
Selfish Man - Pittsburgh Hornets
VanIslander - Lokomotiv Yaroslavl
Troll Ward - Raleigh Icecaps
Seventieslord - Regina Capitals
tony D - Chicago Blaze
Mike Farkas - Medicine Hat Tricks
]DaveG - ?
TheDevilMadeMe & Dreakmur - ?
Tarheelhockey - ?
BenchBrawl - ?

Get those names in!

Deadline to join is Thursday.
I'll be the Montreal Maroons


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Old
07-11-2012, 06:04 PM
  #114
Hawkman
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Spreadsheet is now available! ...
You should set your pms to popup and "Receive Email Notification of New Private Messages" when you get them so you'll be sure not to miss any trade offers. It works great. Go to User Control Panel (User CP on the red toolbar at the top of the page. It's on the far left below the page title such as "All Time Draft".), Edit Options, Messaging & Notification, and look for

"Private Messaging
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If you do not want to send or receive private messages, you may disable the private messaging system.
Enable Private Messaging

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Old
07-11-2012, 06:18 PM
  #115
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Maybe it's not much in terms of adding to the resume, but it does provide a Lipton Sidekicks to the meat on the plate, and it's sure better than being dead and not playing in the NHL, as cruel as that sounds.
Good advice for young hockey players watching at home

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Old
07-12-2012, 09:53 AM
  #116
Velociraptor
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Draft order to be randomized and posted today?

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Old
07-12-2012, 11:03 AM
  #117
VanIslander
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Sign-up List (15 in, 1 more ideally to go with 16):

Velociraptor & Dwight - Sherbrooke Castors
Hedberg - Connecticut Whale
Hobnobs - Winnipeg Monarchs
BringBackScuderi & vecens24 - Pittsburgh Duquesne
Selfish Man - Pittsburgh Hornets
VanIslander - Lokomotiv Yaroslavl
Troll Ward - Raleigh Icecaps
Seventieslord - Regina Capitals
tony D - Chicago Blaze
Mike Farkas - Medicine Hat Tricks
BenchBrawl - Montreal Maroons
Canadiens1958 - Montreal Orfuns
Tarheelhockey - Winston-Salem Polar Twins
DaveG - ?
TheDevilMadeMe & Dreakmur - ?

Get those names in!

Deadline to join is Thursday.


Last edited by VanIslander: 07-12-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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Old
07-12-2012, 11:05 AM
  #118
VanIslander
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Underlined added:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
IDEA: Deadline to join Thursday, draft order randomly determined by Friday noon eastern. The draft could begin anytime thereafter, with the clock officially beginning Monday at noon eastern.

Sound good?
Yes, sir...

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Old
07-12-2012, 12:01 PM
  #119
Canadiens1958
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Montreal Orfuns

Will give it a try. Add the Montreal Orfuns.

Orfuns originates from hockey and football teams in Montreal having multiple home rinks or fields. Also reflects the idea that sports and related ideas should be fun.

Interesting link:

http://www.halloffame.mb.ca/honoured/1997/gRowland.htm

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Old
07-12-2012, 12:18 PM
  #120
seventieslord
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welcome, C1958.

wow, we have 15 teams. can we make it 16 in time for a draft order to be determined?

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Old
07-12-2012, 01:23 PM
  #121
tarheelhockey
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I'm in as the Winston-Salem Polar Twins.

One of the more colorful team names and logos of the old Southern Hockey League, during the "Slapshot" era of the low minors.


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Old
07-12-2012, 01:27 PM
  #122
VanIslander
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I'm in as the Winston-Salem Polar Twins.
Nice! I wonder who their sponsors were?

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Old
07-12-2012, 01:46 PM
  #123
tarheelhockey
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Nice! I wonder who their sponsors were?
Actually, it's an interesting question whether they were officially sponsored or if it was a case of a less-letigious culture letting the copyright slide. I really don't know the answer to that. If they had tobacco money behind them, they probably would have lasted longer...

(for anyone who hasn't caught on: look at the logos on the bears' jerseys)

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Old
07-12-2012, 02:21 PM
  #124
jkrx
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Ive been resting for quite some time now and I think I have the energy for an MLD.

I also want to thank TDMM for the Leaf Central ATD.


My team will be:


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Old
07-12-2012, 02:54 PM
  #125
Hawkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
welcome, C1958. wow, we have 15 teams. can we make it 16 in time for a draft order to be determined?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Ive been resting for quite some time now and I think I have the energy for an MLD. I also want to thank TDMM for the Leaf Central ATD. My team will be: ...
Sweet 16

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