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Ruff " Its a little bit of a gamble but we all liked what we saw"

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Old
07-11-2012, 07:28 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I agree. The conversation and Ruff's comments have been significantly overanalyzed.
This cannot be pointed out enough.

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07-11-2012, 08:06 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post

Or how about definately switch Gerbe and Leino? And then you can switch Leino with Adam after that.
unrealistic

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07-11-2012, 08:36 AM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You've brought up this one play numerous times when discussing Ennis, as if it is his defining play. Anyone can be taught to play responsible defense, being a scorer is an innate ability. Please tell us again how Gerbe is more valuable than Ennis.
Not to be a third-man-in, but you've brought up Sekera's screw up on the PP in Toronto that led to a SHG more than any poster has brought up one single play during the season--Lucic Incident aside--so this is really the pot calling the kettle black.

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07-11-2012, 09:44 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
If he is targeting that amount for Hodgson, it tells me he expects to team Hodgson with Vanek, who gets the same amount of minutes on average from Ruff and who clicked well as a pairing last season....





....and, if that's the goal, it seems almost a lock that he sticks Ott on the left side of Hodgson, while sliding Vanek to the right side.
I immediately thought these 2 points as well...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreTip
I agree with everything you said, Jame - but Hodgson didn't exactly impress either with his defensive coverages.

My gut feeling is that, if no trades are made, we'll probably see Pominville and Leino matched against other team's top lines with a center TBD from free agency.

That would let Ennis-Stafford-Foligno and Hodgson-Vanek-Ott slip into 2nd and 3rd line matchups.
With Ott replacing Roy on the PK, so the PK units are variants of 9-36-29-42 (& 23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
I really hope that Regier and Ruff are not deluding themselves into thinking that, based on a 14-game hot streak last season as a center, Ennis is now ready to take over for Roy, just like they deluded themselves into thinking that Connolly and Roy would step in and fill the spots vacated by Briere and Drury in 2007.
Actually, I viewed the whole "we trust in Ennis to replace Roy's minutes and you fans can read into that however you want" comment as an extemporaneous blurb by Ruff to take the high road and not throw Roy under the bus. Basically, the questioning went like this:
WGR: Roy's been traded to Dallas; what will that mean for Ennis et al.,?
Ruff unstated: Roy had to go, period. We'll figure out the rest as we go along.
Ruff stated: We like Ennis to take Roy's minutes. (implying there's a grand scheme of logic, and that is the next link in that chain)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is about having Hodgson and Ennis as our #1 and #2. Adam was our #1 for a period of time and it worked well for a little bit. Hodgson and Ennis are both vastly more talented and have better skill sets than Adam does.

Is the issue here defensive issues? Or is it faceoff losses? Because it's not like they are being depended on to carry the offense, they're just another forward, just like any other forward. There's no issues with having young wingers on your top line but there is an issue having a young forward as your top center, why? They are not expected to carry the team offensively, they are simply there because we have no better options. Put Hodgson will Vanek and Pominville, and they will attract the strong pairings, which they should be fine with, they put up points with freakin' Luke Adam as their center. FES can still play against the lower pairings, and then we have Leino, Gerbe, Ott or whatever amalgamation you want to make with our bottom two lines.
All fair points. To me, it's far more important to the Sabres success that Hodgson improve his skating in the offseason.

Ahh, it's early July. We act as if it's early October.

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07-11-2012, 10:01 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
When they signed Leino, they said that in Philly's system, he essentially played center. Maybe they expect Ott to face then switch with Leino playing on the third line?
I see that as a definite possibility.

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07-11-2012, 11:02 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Or how about definately switch Gerbe and Leino? And then you can switch Leino with Adam after that.
I can think of millions of reasons...

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07-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #182
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I think the debate over Ennis' defensive ability or lack of it is missing a few points.


1. Its a bit much to make grand statements one way or another on his defensive ability as a center. There is such a small sample size and he hasn't been asked to focus on his defensive game.

2. Ennis is being asked to be a top 6 center coming into camp. On a Ruff coached team that means there needs to be a certain level of two way play to his game. It will change how he preps for the season and will change his focus for the season. He is not coming into camp as a scoring winger and yes that will impact his prep work.

3. Too many are so focused on Ennis that they are forgetting its his line that will be asked to play a two way game not just Ennis. Foligno was already playing an excellent two way game and backchecking like a fiend last year. Stafford has a solid defensive game and has shown improvement in that area each season. The former Sabre many have compared Ennis to, Briere, never did the heavy lifting on his line defensively. He had Hecht doing that.

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07-11-2012, 01:10 PM
  #183
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I've been one of Tyler Ennis' biggest supporters since his junior days, and I've always seen him as Buffalo's most naturally talented player. Most Sabre fans had given up on him after his slow start and ankle injury last season. However, even I believe Ennis can't handle the tough defensive minutes next year. I believe he's ready for more offensive minutes, and time on the first powerplay unit, but he still needs to be sheltered.

The development of our youth will be key if we're going to be contenders in 2-3 years. I'm tired of seeing this team finish in the middle of the pack. If turning this team into a legitmate contender means missing the playoffs the next two years, two top-10 picks, and waiting on our young kids to develop into impact players, I would be all for it.

Potential roster in a few years. I believe more toughness would still need to be added, but it's a good mix of skilled players, and size.

Ennis - Hodgson - Pominville (C)
Vanek - Grigorenko - Armia
Foligno - Girgensons - x
x - x - x

Sekera - Myers (A)
McNabb - Ehrhoff (A)
x - Pysyk

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07-11-2012, 02:26 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrej Shakira View Post
I see that as a definite possibility.
Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville just feels like the top scoring line on this team. Pominville is responsible defensively and can help with draws. Vanek needs to play big minutes, IMO. If Hodgson is going to emerge as the stud he's supposed to become after another offseason working out with Roberts, give him the Luke Adam spot from a year ago and see if he can take off from the gate.

Foligno-Ennis-Stafford can obviously be very productive with a pretty nice mix of size and skill.

Those two lines seem so obvious to me. I understand that Ruff will likely mix them up at times to maybe try and get more balance throughout, but that seems like a clear top-6 for this team right now.

If you go with that, then the 3rd line likely includes Ott and Leino plus someone else. Both are pseudo-centers who are good defensively. Ott obviously can handle the draws and I thought Leino did pretty well when used as a checking center last year. You could go with Kaleta in a defensive role or Gerbe in an offensive role. If Grigorenko makes the team, you can also play him here with Ott and Leino on the wings.

That would leave Kaleta/Gerbe/McCormick/Porter/Tropp, whoever to fill out the 4th line.


Last edited by aaronr28: 07-11-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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07-11-2012, 02:30 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok89 View Post
I've been one of Tyler Ennis' biggest supporters since his junior days, and I've always seen him as Buffalo's most naturally talented player. Most Sabre fans had given up on him after his slow start and ankle injury last season. However, even I believe Ennis can't handle the tough defensive minutes next year. I believe he's ready for more offensive minutes, and time on the first powerplay unit, but he still needs to be sheltered.

The development of our youth will be key if we're going to be contenders in 2-3 years. I'm tired of seeing this team finish in the middle of the pack. If turning this team into a legitmate contender means missing the playoffs the next two years, two top-10 picks, and waiting on our young kids to develop into impact players, I would be all for it.

Potential roster in a few years. I believe more toughness would still need to be added, but it's a good mix of skilled players, and size.

Ennis - Hodgson - Pominville (C)
Vanek - Grigorenko - Armia
Foligno - Girgensons - x
x - x - x

Sekera - Myers (A)
McNabb - Ehrhoff (A)
x - Pysyk
Based on how dev camp has gone, and Ruff clearly stating he likes the banger/playmaker/shooter line set-up, I'm imagining:
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford/Vanek
Girgensons-Grigorenko/Hodgson-Armia
Bottom 6 tbd. (Will we re-sign Ott and Pommer/do they still fit the team's needs in 2 years? Where does Leino fit in? Does Adam ever stick in the NHL? Etc.)

Sekera-Myers
?-Ehrhoff
McNabb-Pysyk

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:21 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronr28 View Post
Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville just feels like the top scoring line on this team. Pominville is responsible defensively and can help with draws. Vanek needs to play big minutes, IMO. If Hodgson is going to emerge as the stud he's supposed to become after another offseason working out with Roberts, give him the Luke Adam spot from a year ago and see if he can take off from the gate.

Foligno-Ennis-Stafford can obviously be very productive with a pretty nice mix of size and skill.

Those two lines seem so obvious to me. I understand that Ruff will likely mix them up at times to maybe try and get more balance throughout, but that seems like a clear top-6 for this team right now.

If you go with that, then the 3rd line likely includes Ott and Leino plus someone else. Both are pseudo-centers who are good defensively. Ott obviously can handle the draws and I thought Leino did pretty well when used as a checking center last year. You could go with Kaleta in a defensive role or Gerbe in an offensive role. If Grigorenko makes the team, you can also play him here with Ott and Leino on the wings.

That would leave Kaleta/Gerbe/McCormick/Porter/Tropp, whoever to fill out the 4th line.
Not sure why you feel there will be a clearcut top 6 when everything Ruff has said about next season and the movews to date point towards 3 balanced lines with makeups similar to the Foligno/Ennis/Staford line.

Also, since Peca/Cubro left, we've had a checking line for all of 13 games. No idea why you think we will have one next year.

I would be amazed if we entered the season with anything but the 3 line setup with a 4th line playing minimal minutes.

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07-12-2012, 12:15 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Not sure why you feel there will be a clearcut top 6 when everything Ruff has said about next season and the movews to date point towards 3 balanced lines with makeups similar to the Foligno/Ennis/Staford line.

Also, since Peca/Cubro left, we've had a checking line for all of 13 games. No idea why you think we will have one next year.

I would be amazed if we entered the season with anything but the 3 line setup with a 4th line playing minimal minutes.
I understand that and agree with you. I just think that's how I'd probably set things up and would like to see how it went.

I'm fine with the idea of putting some grit on each line but guys like Vanek and Pominville need to get big minutes somehow. If you put Ott with Hodgson and Pominville, then Vanek seems to get lost a bit on a makeshift 3rd line.

Might we see Ott with Vanek and Pominville on the top line? That would leave Hodgson and Leino and some grinder for the 3rd line.

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07-12-2012, 12:24 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by aaronr28 View Post
I understand that and agree with you. I just think that's how I'd probably set things up and would like to see how it went.

I'm fine with the idea of putting some grit on each line but guys like Vanek and Pominville need to get big minutes somehow. If you put Ott with Hodgson and Pominville, then Vanek seems to get lost a bit on a makeshift 3rd line.

Might we see Ott with Vanek and Pominville on the top line? That would leave Hodgson and Leino and some grinder for the 3rd line.
I think Hodsgon will be with Vanek not Pommer. I'm expecting something along these lines

Leino/xxxx/Pommer
Foligno/Ennis/Stafford
Ott/Hodgson/Vanek

Ott could end up with Leino/Pommer if we don't acquire a center in a trade and Tropp could be the winger with Hodgson/Vanek like he was at the end of the season.

With these 3 lines getting roughly even minutes at ES.

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07-12-2012, 01:33 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronr28 View Post
Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville just feels like the top scoring line on this team. Pominville is responsible defensively and can help with draws. Vanek needs to play big minutes, IMO. If Hodgson is going to emerge as the stud he's supposed to become after another offseason working out with Roberts, give him the Luke Adam spot from a year ago and see if he can take off from the gate.

Foligno-Ennis-Stafford can obviously be very productive with a pretty nice mix of size and skill.

Those two lines seem so obvious to me. I understand that Ruff will likely mix them up at times to maybe try and get more balance throughout, but that seems like a clear top-6 for this team right now.

If you go with that, then the 3rd line likely includes Ott and Leino plus someone else. Both are pseudo-centers who are good defensively. Ott obviously can handle the draws and I thought Leino did pretty well when used as a checking center last year. You could go with Kaleta in a defensive role or Gerbe in an offensive role. If Grigorenko makes the team, you can also play him here with Ott and Leino on the wings.

That would leave Kaleta/Gerbe/McCormick/Porter/Tropp, whoever to fill out the 4th line.
Clearly Ruff disagrees with your statement I've bolded.

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07-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
Clearly Ruff disagrees with your statement I've bolded.
Wow. I guess I didn't realize how little ice time he tends to get on this team.

2008-2009: 17:11
2009-2010: 16:45
2010-2011: 17:21
2011-2012: 16:56

I know he doesn't kill penalties but that seems unusually low to me for a player of his ability and importance.


Last edited by aaronr28: 07-12-2012 at 02:01 PM.
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07-12-2012, 01:54 PM
  #191
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It's just more fodder for why many people think Ruff needs to go.

He will ride Miller till he's dead tired but won't play Vanek more minutes. /boggle

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07-12-2012, 01:56 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
It's just more fodder for why many people think Ruff needs to go.

He will ride Miller till he's dead tired but won't play Vanek more minutes. /boggle
Ruff needs to go because he has accomplished nothing in his 13+ seasons here.

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07-12-2012, 02:41 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Ruff needs to go because he has accomplished nothing in his 13+ seasons here.
Talk about ridiculous. He hasn't won a Cup so he's accomplished nothing?

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07-12-2012, 02:44 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Ruff needs to go because he hasn't won a cup in his 13+ seasons here.
I think that's what you meant.

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07-12-2012, 02:46 PM
  #195
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Talk about ridiculous. He hasn't won a Cup so he's accomplished nothing?
What other coach would still be employed in the same city after the years of consecutive failures that Ruff has endured? None. I understand the onus is not completely on him to bring success to this team, but when the team is not successful usually the coach is the first one out. But no, not in Buffalo.

I apologize, I worded it wrong, so sue me.

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07-12-2012, 02:50 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
What other coach would still be employed in the same city after the years of consecutive failures that Ruff has endured? None. I understand the onus is not completely on him to bring success to this team, but when the team is not successful usually the coach is the first one out. But no, not in Buffalo.

I apologize, I worded it wrong, so sue me.
I can only respond to what you post. And my lawyers will be contacting you shortly.

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07-12-2012, 02:51 PM
  #197
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What other coach would still be employed in the same city after the years of consecutive failures that Ruff has endured? None.
Barry Trotz

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07-12-2012, 02:56 PM
  #198
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Barry Trotz
And we've seen the success they've achieved with him as their coach for so long...

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07-12-2012, 02:59 PM
  #199
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And we've seen the success they've achieved with him as their coach for so long...
One > None

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07-12-2012, 03:06 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
What other coach would still be employed in the same city after the years of consecutive failures that Ruff has endured? None. I understand the onus is not completely on him to bring success to this team, but when the team is not successful usually the coach is the first one out. But no,not in Buffalo.

I apologize, I worded it wrong, so sue me.
and in most cases that fixes nothing.

If you want Ruff fired because you don't think he can win a Cup. So be it. But he has shown an ability to win with two different groups of players or different teams if you will. But he can't draw blood from a stone.


He's had roughly 4 "teams" since he's been here.

1) The Hasek era teams were his first 4 seasons

-made playoffs all 4 years
-past 1st round 3x
-conference Finals 2x
-Cup Finals 1x

2) The transition teams in the 3 years leading to the lockout.

-We missed the playoffs in these seasons while the Hasek era team was dismantled and the early pieces of the post lockout team were being acquired. Its also part of the bankruptcy the team dealt with and the NHL running the team.

3) Then we had the post lockout team. Sadly this group was only together for 2 years.

-went to the conference Finals both years.

4) Then we have the post co-captains debacle teams. (the last 5 seasons)

-missed playoffs 3 of those 5 years
-knocked out in 1st round both years we made it.


The two times he struggled to have success was due to personel moves that weakened the team that he had no control over

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