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Joe Colborne's Potential

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Old
07-12-2012, 03:57 PM
  #26
BlueBaron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
People think he has less potential because they know nothing about Leaf prospects and don't realize that the was injured for a lot of the season, exactly when his sensational production started to fall off.

Too many people in this forum see things in black and white, so they just look at his points and say bust, when that logic rarely if ever applies.
Pretty much.

Big players take longer.

Like many I see him as being a 2 or 3 but because of the Grabovski situation a two can be a one (Grabovski being our real number one center but not playing with Kess n Lups). If he can match Bozaks numbers, which seems plausable, his size makes him a more attractive option, not to mention his contract and so on. It also make Bozak expendable.

If however he cannot handle that is it better to have him on the third line forcing either Steckel out (who I'd like to keep) or rotating with our other 3rd/4th line center McClement. He might be better off on the Marlies.

This ignores Lombardi and Connolly who are also natural centers.

No matter what happens we need to move some bodies. To me on forward the only locks are

Lupul ? Kess
JVR Grabs Fratt
CMac McClem Kule
? Steckel Brown

That leaves Bozak, Connolly, Lombardi, Colborne, Kadri, Komarov, Carter

I don't like his chances this year but if he has a killer camp and leads us in preseason scoring playing with Kess n Lups then anything is possible. Throw JVR in the mix too, if he stays top line C, Colborne has 0 chance. That said, something has to give, I can see us trading Bozak and using Connolly on the top line, Lombardi in the fourth line LW with the expectation one of the kids is ready or the Center has been aquired in trade/FA next year when Connolly is off the books. Then we still have Lombardi as insurance.

So many variables it's hard to imagine what will happen. Maybe Connolly gets moved at the Deadline ? Maybe Lombardi gets sent to the Marlies (and Steck or McC could convert to LW)? I look around the league and I'm not seeing many 1C's for us to trade for. Maybe Burke already knows Getzlaf is coming and he's just getting everything in place til he comes

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07-12-2012, 03:59 PM
  #27
Tyler Biggs
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I think he will be a top 6 guy.

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07-12-2012, 04:13 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Pretty much.

Big players take longer.

Like many I see him as being a 2 or 3 but because of the Grabovski situation a two can be a one (Grabovski being our real number one center but not playing with Kess n Lups). If he can match Bozaks numbers, which seems plausable, his size makes him a more attractive option, not to mention his contract and so on. It also make Bozak expendable.

If however he cannot handle that is it better to have him on the third line forcing either Steckel out (who I'd like to keep) or rotating with our other 3rd/4th line center McClement. He might be better off on the Marlies.

This ignores Lombardi and Connolly who are also natural centers.

No matter what happens we need to move some bodies. To me on forward the only locks are

Lupul ? Kess
JVR Grabs Fratt
CMac McClem Kule
? Steckel Brown

That leaves Bozak, Connolly, Lombardi, Colborne, Kadri, Komarov, Carter

I don't like his chances this year but if he has a killer camp and leads us in preseason scoring playing with Kess n Lups then anything is possible. Throw JVR in the mix too, if he stays top line C, Colborne has 0 chance. That said, something has to give, I can see us trading Bozak and using Connolly on the top line, Lombardi in the fourth line LW with the expectation one of the kids is ready or the Center has been aquired in trade/FA next year when Connolly is off the books. Then we still have Lombardi as insurance.

So many variables it's hard to imagine what will happen. Maybe Connolly gets moved at the Deadline ? Maybe Lombardi gets sent to the Marlies (and Steck or McC could convert to LW)? I look around the league and I'm not seeing many 1C's for us to trade for. Maybe Burke already knows Getzlaf is coming and he's just getting everything in place til he comes
Frattin is having surgery (or had?) and I believe he is expected to miss training camp/Pre-season (If we have one). I wouldn't pencil him into the line-up, and the same goes for MacArthur. If MacA and Connolly are still on the team, they will be in the line-up... but they could both be traded.

Lupul - XXXX - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - XXXX
Kulemin - McClement - XXXX
XXXX - Steckel - Brown

They said they would like to try JVR at center (obvious to me that means #1C as the #2-4 C spots are taken) but I see that failing pretty soon, although I hope I'm wrong.

Kulemin will either be on the 3rd or 2nd line depending how Carlyle wants to run his lines (Burke said he believes the top 6 bottom 6 line-up is outdated)

Leaves three forward positions for MacA/Frattin/Kadri/Connolly/Bozak/Colborne? to fight for. If the JVR experiment fails, Bozak will most likely take over for the #1C. I also think that Kadri would get the #2 RW spot, Connolly the #3 RW/LW spot, and komarov most likely gets the #4LW spot.

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07-12-2012, 04:16 PM
  #29
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It will be interesting to see how his year goes. How much of his early success was just a hot streak or was Joey Crabb generated? Without the injury he could have had 65 pts or he could have had 100. I would have a hard time not calling him top line if he had 100 points in then AHL. 20 games into the year he should have given us an idea of which parts of the Joe we saw last year are the real thing.

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07-12-2012, 04:18 PM
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He is a floater. NHL bust.

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07-12-2012, 04:22 PM
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I think he has top 6 potential for sure - 50-60 points isn't out of the question. He's not done developing, both on the ice and physically (grew something like half an inch or so before last training camp). Once he gets stronger and a bit nastier (with Eakins' help) I could see him become a very productive NHLer. Ideally, he, Ashton and Biggs would form a trainwreck of a third line that wears down opposing defenders.

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07-12-2012, 04:57 PM
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I see him one day slotting in very nicely as our 3C. That's about it, and nothing wrong with that either.

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07-12-2012, 05:33 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
His drive ON THE ICE.

Perhaps you guys misread what I was saying. I'm not talking about his inner clock or willingness or comeptitive drive.... I'm talking about his compete level on the ice.
you're allowed to think that if you want.

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07-12-2012, 05:43 PM
  #34
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He is so soft

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07-12-2012, 05:58 PM
  #35
seventieslord
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show me some active top-6 NHL forwards who played out their junior eligibility after being drafted, then played at least two full seasons in the AHL. There aren't many*. Now, remember that the few guys you found, are the exception and not the rule. Most guys who have followed this path, don't pan out.



* I'll start you off with two, Mike Ryder and Matt Moulson. Try to find more.

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07-12-2012, 06:33 PM
  #36
Ricky Bobby
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The best comparable for Colborne is Brian Boyle.

Both were 1st round picks.

Both are huge.

Neither fight.

Both have been accussed of not playing an aggressive enough of a style at times.

Both have good hands for such big guys. Just not good enough hands to be primarly offensive players at the next level.

If Colborne develops into someone as good as Boyle I'm very happy. A very useful 3rd liner whose main goal is to shutdown opposition players but can also chip in 30 to 40 points a year and ends up being #6/7 in terms of total ice time in the forward group. Who is tough to play against namely cause of his size, is relied on as a top penalty killer and can be used on the powerplay occassionally.

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07-12-2012, 07:10 PM
  #37
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Due to the position he plays, and his size I wouldnt be suprised if Burke and co. have him rated higher than Kadri. I believe he will be an NHLer, just a matter of time as to where he slots in. Has great vision as well.

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07-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
show me some active top-6 NHL forwards who played out their junior eligibility after being drafted, then played at least two full seasons in the AHL. There aren't many*. Now, remember that the few guys you found, are the exception and not the rule. Most guys who have followed this path, don't pan out.



* I'll start you off with two, Mike Ryder and Matt Moulson. Try to find more.
Bobby Ryan? edit: nevermind.. you said full seasons...

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07-12-2012, 07:23 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The best comparable for Colborne is Brian Boyle.

Both were 1st round picks.

Both are huge.

Neither fight.

Both have been accussed of not playing an aggressive enough of a style at times.

Both have good hands for such big guys. Just not good enough hands to be primarly offensive players at the next level.

If Colborne develops into someone as good as Boyle I'm very happy. A very useful 3rd liner whose main goal is to shutdown opposition players but can also chip in 30 to 40 points a year and ends up being #6/7 in terms of total ice time in the forward group. Who is tough to play against namely cause of his size, is relied on as a top penalty killer and can be used on the powerplay occassionally.
Not gonna lie I would pretty disappointed if he turned out to be a Brian Boyle ( which I don't see because Colborne is not that physical). I think he can become a really good 2nd liner.

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07-12-2012, 07:23 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
show me some active top-6 NHL forwards who played out their junior eligibility after being drafted, then played at least two full seasons in the AHL. There aren't many*. Now, remember that the few guys you found, are the exception and not the rule. Most guys who have followed this path, don't pan out.



* I'll start you off with two, Mike Ryder and Matt Moulson. Try to find more.
Um ... Colborne went the college route - not junior. Also, had he not gotten injured last year and kept up a pace even close to what he started the year, he would have likely finished the year with the Leafs.

I have no problem with his development so far, and am project he's a fully time Leaf in the top 6 by the end of next season.

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07-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The best comparable for Colborne is Brian Boyle.

Both were 1st round picks.

Both are huge.

Neither fight.

Both have been accussed of not playing an aggressive enough of a style at times.

Both have good hands for such big guys. Just not good enough hands to be primarly offensive players at the next level.

If Colborne develops into someone as good as Boyle I'm very happy. A very useful 3rd liner whose main goal is to shutdown opposition players but can also chip in 30 to 40 points a year and ends up being #6/7 in terms of total ice time in the forward group. Who is tough to play against namely cause of his size, is relied on as a top penalty killer and can be used on the powerplay occassionally.
Thats actually just not a similar comparable, and if you really think they are similar then we will just have to disagree.

Am I the only one who thinks that? I dont see Boyle in Joe C at all.

First of all, Boyle could barely skate when he got to the NHL, like it was simply awful. Joe colborne on the other hand has played in the NHL and looked good doing it, and his skating has been average. Boyle's was not even average when he got into the league.

Second of all, Colborne has twice the skill Boyle does, I dont think thats even questionable.

Boyle has a decent shot, and had a couple good years potting some goals.

Colborne is actually capable of goal production, but even more importantly has the playmaking and puck protection skills to generate offense. Dont see that with Boyle.

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07-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #42
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He probably tops out as a Nik Antropov level player, which begs the question, should we have taken Blake Wheeler over him in the Kaberle deal?

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07-12-2012, 07:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
show me some active top-6 NHL forwards who played out their junior eligibility after being drafted, then played at least two full seasons in the AHL. There aren't many*. Now, remember that the few guys you found, are the exception and not the rule. Most guys who have followed this path, don't pan out.



* I'll start you off with two, Mike Ryder and Matt Moulson. Try to find more.
Alexandre Burrows
Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau
Clarke MacArthur
Alexei Ponikarovsky
Ryane Clowe
Jason Pominville
Brad Boyes
Kris Versteeg
Tomas Fleischmann
Curtis Glencross
David Desharnais
Andrei Kostitsyn
Brooks Laich

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07-12-2012, 07:38 PM
  #44
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Fact, when Colborne was healthy for at least the first month of the season he was.......the AHL player of the month averaging something like two points a game. But I guess to some posters that doesn't count. Then he suffers a wrist injury serious enough to have surgery immediately after the season but he grinds it out and remains playing but that doesn't count either to some posters, he's still soft. I wonder what's going to be said if he starts thriving in the NHL. It'll be funny.

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07-12-2012, 07:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
He probably tops out as a Nik Antropov level player, which begs the question, should we have taken Blake Wheeler over him in the Kaberle deal?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Boyd Devereaux...

A 2nd line centre and a threat for 60 points is a huge stretch.

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07-12-2012, 07:46 PM
  #46
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Fact, when Colborne was healthy for at least the first month of the season he was.......the AHL player of the month averaging something like two points a game. But I guess to some posters that doesn't count. Then he suffers a wrist injury serious enough to have surgery immediately after the season but he grinds it out and remains playing but that doesn't count either to some posters, he's still soft. I wonder what's going to be said if he starts thriving in the NHL. It'll be funny.
So does Joey Crabb have as much potential as Colborne, who was right there with him the whole way?

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07-12-2012, 07:47 PM
  #47
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So does Joey Crabb have as much potential as him, who was right there with him the whole way?
Difference of age maybe?

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07-12-2012, 07:50 PM
  #48
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So does Joey Crabb have as much potential as Colborne, who was right there with him the whole way?
Where did this troll come from? Did someone come up with a cloning machine and stuff Freebird/Frankie into it?

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07-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #49
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Difference of age maybe?
What about a difference in the physicality department?

I'll give you guys and Joe Colborne credit, his offensive ability definitely matches an NHL fourth liner in Joey Crabb's (based on the statistics you guys are basing your assessment on).

The problem is his softness, defensive game, and his skating, which will keep him out of any meaningful role in the NHL.

Mark my words..

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07-12-2012, 07:53 PM
  #50
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What about a difference in the physicality department?

I'll give you guys and Joe Colborne credit, his offensive ability definitely matches an NHL fourth liner in Joey Crabb's (based on the statistics you guys are basing your assessment on).

The problem is his softness, defensive game, and his skating, which will keep him out of any meaningful role in the NHL.

Mark my words..
"Mark my words...." Hilarious.

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