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Old
07-12-2012, 08:23 AM
  #26
devilsrock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNH View Post
If Volchenkov is willing to waive, I'd be happy to do Hemsky for Volchenkov+conditional 2nd.
Done!!!!!!!

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07-12-2012, 10:23 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
No thanks, Oilers not interested in a D with a 4yr contract. Like I said Greene plays a great positional game, but he's not physical. Averages around 50 hits per year and has only score more then 30pts one year. NJ's D had a problem with the physical play of the Kings, in fact they were out muscled. Greene on the Oilers would end up to be a 3rd pairing and could easily end up being the 7th D. IMO he's not worth Hemsky, especially if Hemsky comes back to form.
I'm with you up until the point where you claim Greene would be a third pairing defenceman on the Oilers. He's a solid top four defenceman on the Devils. No way he moves down a pairing or gets bumped to the seventh spot on a team that is worse defensively than the Devils.

However, you are correct in saying that he isn't very physical, being primarily an effective positional defender. He also doesn't score a lot, because he hasn't been used in that kind of role.

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07-12-2012, 12:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
I'm with you up until the point where you claim Greene would be a third pairing defenceman on the Oilers. He's a solid top four defenceman on the Devils. No way he moves down a pairing or gets bumped to the seventh spot on a team that is worse defensively than the Devils.

However, you are correct in saying that he isn't very physical, being primarily an effective positional defender. He also doesn't score a lot, because he hasn't been used in that kind of role.
Who would he replace on the Oilers, Smid, N.Schultz, or Whitney. Since he's not a stay at home D like Smid and N.Schultz that would leave Whitney. So your basically saying Greene is better option then Whitney. It also could be debated that is he any better then N.Schultz. If Whitney returns to full form, Greene will most likely be the 7th D on the Oilers. Not saying Greene is a bad D, it's just a numbers game in Edmonton and with what the Oilers have coming up the pipeline in Marincin and Klefbom I can not see the Oilers paying a D 3mil to warm the bench.

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Old
07-12-2012, 12:06 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by devilsrock View Post
Green plays a physical game. He also happenes to be a well respected guy in the locker room who is capable of putting up 30+ points. If your looking for really physical D-man, Devils will happily offer Volchenkov instead.
Are you talking about Andy Greene being physical, Mr. Softy himself?

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07-12-2012, 12:36 PM
  #30
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Greene is not particularly soft


not physical, but not soft

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07-12-2012, 12:45 PM
  #31
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Any chance of Fayne being available?

Hemksy + Paajarvi ?

I dont think EDM would be interested in a player like Greene with guys like Petry and Schultz already on the team playing RD.

Whitney and N.Schultz are also not physically imposing. Cant ice 5 Dmen who dont hit.

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Old
07-12-2012, 12:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by GatoradeG View Post

Andy Greene (D)


Ales Hemsky (RW)
Not a bad proposal. Greene is consistant and Hemsky has upper level potential so it's a roll of the dice for the Devils but they do get the best player in the deal. For the Oilers I'd be concerned that Greene pulls a Paul Martin and drops off outside of the Devils system.

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Old
07-12-2012, 06:59 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Who would he replace on the Oilers, Smid, N.Schultz, or Whitney. Since he's not a stay at home D like Smid and N.Schultz that would leave Whitney. So your basically saying Greene is better option then Whitney. It also could be debated that is he any better then N.Schultz. If Whitney returns to full form, Greene will most likely be the 7th D on the Oilers. Not saying Greene is a bad D, it's just a numbers game in Edmonton and with what the Oilers have coming up the pipeline in Marincin and Klefbom I can not see the Oilers paying a D 3mil to warm the bench.
Greene is a better shutdown defenceman than you give him credit for, I have absolutely no hesitation at all in saying that he's better than both Smid and N Schultz. Whitney is a better defenceman, but he plays a different role, and he's often injured, so it's tough to say anything to compare the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Any chance of Fayne being available?

Hemksy + Paajarvi ?

I dont think EDM would be interested in a player like Greene with guys like Petry and Schultz already on the team playing RD.

Whitney and N.Schultz are also not physically imposing. Cant ice 5 Dmen who dont hit.
Fayne probably will not be available, he is relatively young and cheap for a high level of play. His value is higher to the Devils than it is to other teams, and guys like that don't get traded.

Greene is left handed, and usually plays the left side.

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07-12-2012, 07:21 PM
  #34
devilsrock
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
Are you talking about Andy Greene being physical, Mr. Softy himself?
He has his moments. I know he uses the hip check a lot.
He doesn't get in to many fights but that doesn't make him soft.

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07-12-2012, 08:40 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Any chance of Fayne being available?

Hemksy + Paajarvi ?

I dont think EDM would be interested in a player like Greene with guys like Petry and Schultz already on the team playing RD.

Whitney and N.Schultz are also not physically imposing. Cant ice 5 Dmen who dont hit.
Wait...Fayne for Hemsky AND Paajarvi?

Done, no take backs.

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07-12-2012, 08:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Missionhockey View Post
Wait...Fayne for Hemsky AND Paajarvi?

Done, no take backs.
I have not seen him play but I have read articles where he and Merril are supposedly untouchables.

On stat sheet he seem like a bigger, younger, cheaper version of A.Greene.

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07-12-2012, 10:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Missionhockey View Post
Wait...Fayne for Hemsky AND Paajarvi?

Done, no take backs.
Stay quiet your going to blow this deal.

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Old
07-13-2012, 05:07 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Greene is a better shutdown defenceman than you give him credit for, I have absolutely no hesitation at all in saying that he's better than both Smid and N Schultz. Whitney is a better defenceman, but he plays a different role, and he's often injured, so it's tough to say anything to compare the two.



Fayne probably will not be available, he is relatively young and cheap for a high level of play. His value is higher to the Devils than it is to other teams, and guys like that don't get traded.

Greene is left handed, and usually plays the left side.
Your kidding right, your saying that a 5'11 D that puts out 50 hits a year is better then Smid. Tell me when you get that boot out of your mouth and we'll talk again.
It's debatable about N.Schultz, but to compare Smid to Greene and say he's better is a joke.

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07-13-2012, 08:07 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Your kidding right, your saying that a 5'11 D that puts out 50 hits a year is better then Smid. Tell me when you get that boot out of your mouth and we'll talk again.
It's debatable about N.Schultz, but to compare Smid to Greene and say he's better is a joke.
You're going to quote hit stats at me to prove that one defenceman is better than another? Oh my. First of all, hits are a very subjective stat, certain arenas are liberal in counting them, others are more stingy at awarding them, and no matter what, players tend to be credited with more hits at home. The Devils are notorious for having very conservative official stat counters at the Rock. Second, it is possible to be a positional defenceman and still play superior defence to a guy who is more physical. This is an extreme example, but Lidstrom had only 41 hits this season, you're going to tell me that Smid is better than him defensively? Greene is an effective positional defenceman.

Greene-Fayne was the Devils' (somewhat unlikely) shutdown pairing in the playoffs, and Greene was the one who made that pairing what it was. They shut down Giroux, Hartnell, and Jagr in the series against the Flyers, and Gaborik and Richards against the Rangers. No easy task.

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07-13-2012, 09:35 AM
  #40
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Thread now demands Greene's hit on ovechkin crosby and anyone else that matters

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07-13-2012, 09:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Greene is a better shutdown defenceman than you give him credit for, I have absolutely no hesitation at all in saying that he's better than both Smid and N Schultz. Whitney is a better defenceman, but he plays a different role, and he's often injured, so it's tough to say anything to compare the two.
Smid is already better than Whitney, and it is quite possible N. Schultz is as well. Personally, I think having Whitney is one of the main things that makes our D so bad. He gets too many minutes for someone that is now injured permanently (or so it seems). Whitney is the first D I would like to see moved from the Oilers.

Smid is one of the most underrated D in the league.

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:44 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
You're going to quote hit stats at me to prove that one defenceman is better than another? Oh my. First of all, hits are a very subjective stat, certain arenas are liberal in counting them, others are more stingy at awarding them, and no matter what, players tend to be credited with more hits at home. The Devils are notorious for having very conservative official stat counters at the Rock. Second, it is possible to be a positional defenceman and still play superior defence to a guy who is more physical. This is an extreme example, but Lidstrom had only 41 hits this season, you're going to tell me that Smid is better than him defensively? Greene is an effective positional defenceman.

Greene-Fayne was the Devils' (somewhat unlikely) shutdown pairing in the playoffs, and Greene was the one who made that pairing what it was. They shut down Giroux, Hartnell, and Jagr in the series against the Flyers, and Gaborik and Richards against the Rangers. No easy task.
Totally agreed. You don't need to hit to shut opponents down. If anyone remembers the old Detroit - Philly series of 1997, you'll know exactly what the above poster is refering to. Detroit could have put Konstantinov and Fetisov against the Lindros line, but instead put Lidstrom and Murphy against Lindros to shut him down. 2 guys who barely ever hit. Philly was swept with Lindros getting one goal.

I'd do the trade of Greene for Hemsky as an Oilers fan.

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07-13-2012, 09:54 AM
  #43
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I'll definitely side with the Whitney is bad at hockey camp.

This Greene vs Smid argument seems a bit superfluous anyways. Besides the point and is to which are the someotherlongword such as and ergo therefore.

Both are underrated by other fans because nobody watches either of our teams enough.

Doesn't help that Greene went from absolutely worse defenceman ever to our best defenceman in the course of a year

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07-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I have not seen him play but I have read articles where he and Merril are supposedly untouchables.

On stat sheet he seem like a bigger, younger, cheaper version of A.Greene.
Actually your spot on. He's big, not overly physical but a very good shut down defenseman, not to mention 2nd youngest on a defense thats not exactly spring chickens. As mentioned many times he played on the top pairring with Greene and did a very good job. He knows when to pinch and when to get conservative. A guy like him you don't give up for peanuts but at the same time he's not untradeable.

Merrill is for now though.

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07-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Greene is a better shutdown defenceman than you give him credit for, I have absolutely no hesitation at all in saying that he's better than both Smid and N Schultz. Whitney is a better defenceman, but he plays a different role, and he's often injured, so it's tough to say anything to compare the two.
Actually, that's where you're wrong. Whitney...kind of sucks. He can play like a #2 but he's very inconsistent on offense and defense. Smid is much, much better than him. Everything you want in a defensive dman, you got it in Smid.

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07-13-2012, 04:09 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
You're going to quote hit stats at me to prove that one defenceman is better than another? Oh my. First of all, hits are a very subjective stat, certain arenas are liberal in counting them, others are more stingy at awarding them, and no matter what, players tend to be credited with more hits at home. The Devils are notorious for having very conservative official stat counters at the Rock. Second, it is possible to be a positional defenceman and still play superior defence to a guy who is more physical. This is an extreme example, but Lidstrom had only 41 hits this season, you're going to tell me that Smid is better than him defensively? Greene is an effective positional defenceman.

Greene-Fayne was the Devils' (somewhat unlikely) shutdown pairing in the playoffs, and Greene was the one who made that pairing what it was. They shut down Giroux, Hartnell, and Jagr in the series against the Flyers, and Gaborik and Richards against the Rangers. No easy task.
As are the oilers at rexall place. The media always talks about when they play at the Honda center or other arenas that are liberal with the amount of hits counted.

Cant comment on the positional play but inflated hit counts are not happening with Smid

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Old
07-13-2012, 05:01 PM
  #47
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Is he on twitter - than you could tweet him and ask if he would be willing to waive?
devils aren't allowed to have twitter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Any chance of Fayne being available?

Hemksy + Paajarvi ?

I dont think EDM would be interested in a player like Greene with guys like Petry and Schultz already on the team playing RD.

Whitney and N.Schultz are also not physically imposing. Cant ice 5 Dmen who dont hit.
i would do that deal in a heart beat. easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I have not seen him play but I have read articles where he and Merril are supposedly untouchables.

On stat sheet he seem like a bigger, younger, cheaper version of A.Greene.
fayne is good positionally, decent enough offensively at even strength, and pretty much the epitome of a jack of all trades d-man. i think he's pretty much already maxed out his potential though as a solid 2nd pairing guy. he's great, but far from untouchable.

merrill is important to the devils because he projects to have the elite offensive skill that the devils blueline has been missing for a while until we added larsson and zidlicky.

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07-13-2012, 06:33 PM
  #48
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devils aren't allowed to have twitter.

i would do that deal in a heart beat. easy.


fayne is good positionally, decent enough offensively at even strength, and pretty much the epitome of a jack of all trades d-man. i think he's pretty much already maxed out his potential though as a solid 2nd pairing guy. he's great, but far from untouchable.

merrill is important to the devils because he projects to have the elite offensive skill that the devils blueline has been missing for a while until we added larsson and zidlicky.
Seriously. The Devils are not allowed on Twitter? Bizzare - why - was there previous Cam incident.

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Old
07-13-2012, 06:51 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
As are the oilers at rexall place. The media always talks about when they play at the Honda center or other arenas that are liberal with the amount of hits counted.

Cant comment on the positional play but inflated hit counts are not happening with Smid
How are they about counting shots on goal and blocked shots? Because the Devils statisticians have been known to severely undercount those statistical categories too. I'm genuinely curious about this.

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