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Oshie's advanced defensive stats (and the eye test) say he's almost identical with Backes in that department. If Oshie starts getting into the 65 point territory he'll get more Selke votes than he got this year.
Fair enough. And it goes along my argument that sustained production (both on defense and offense) over at least another season or two is needed to expect more Selke type of recognition.
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Originally Posted by taylord22
I agree with both points, but to be fair, his defensive game going back to his rookie year has been superb. He's been in the top 3 (at forward) in hits, PK time, even strength time, takeaways, and blocked shots since coming into the league.
Again, I think you're right, but I have little doubt he'll be at that same elite level this year — as his defensive level did not appear out of nowhere last year.
Wasn't he somehow disappointing the previous year though? I mean, it was an injury-riddled season, but offensively his pts/game ratio was still quite decent. I don't remember how good he was defensively that year, I just remember he had fallen out of favor a bit with Blues fans on this forum, but I can't provide more insight/interpretation on this as I don't get to watch the Blues as much as I'd like to.
Fair enough. And it goes along my argument that sustained production (both on defense and offense) over at least another season or two is needed to expect more Selke type of recognition.
Wasn't he somehow disappointing the previous year though? I mean, it was an injury-riddled season, but offensively his pts/game ratio was still quite decent. I don't remember how good he was defensively that year, I just remember he had fallen out of favor a bit with Blues fans on this forum, but I can't provide more insight/interpretation on this as I don't get to watch the Blues as much as I'd like to.
His defensive game has always been very, very good. The issues with Oshie, I assume, were about issues off the ice, which were always blown out of proportion IMO.
Wasn't he somehow disappointing the previous year though? I mean, it was an injury-riddled season, but offensively his pts/game ratio was still quite decent. I don't remember how good he was defensively that year, I just remember he had fallen out of favor a bit with Blues fans on this forum, but I can't provide more insight/interpretation on this as I don't get to watch the Blues as much as I'd like to.
Some didn't like his apparent lack of durability, others didn't like his apparent partying attitude. He was known to be good friends with Johnson and party buddies with him. Who knows, but he could have played a part in the golf cart fiasco that ended with Johnson's torn ACL. It seems he has matured, so that isn't a problem anymore, if it ever was one.
Word is Bryan Murray from the Sens was trying to acquire him before the Turris trade, but the price was too much. Turris got a top prospect and a 2nd, so his value has to be significantly higher than that.
I'd assume he's a 4 million dollar guy to STL who wouldn't go for less than 2 valuable pieces (including offer sheets).
Fair enough. And it goes along my argument that sustained production (both on defense and offense) over at least another season or two is needed to expect more Selke type of recognition.
There's a difference between recognition and performance.
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Originally Posted by Clipitar
Wasn't he somehow disappointing the previous year though? I mean, it was an injury-riddled season, but offensively his pts/game ratio was still quite decent. I don't remember how good he was defensively that year, I just remember he had fallen out of favor a bit with Blues fans on this forum, but I can't provide more insight/interpretation on this as I don't get to watch the Blues as much as I'd like to.
Nah, he played well, got hurt, came back worse due to the injury. He was called out for missing a practice and that was it. Everything was majorly overblown. Before the injury, he was great, and after the injury, he was still a solid contributor. Also, it's dangerous to read any small group of fans' opinions as indicative of reality. Plenty of fans weren't saying anything because they weren't disappointed or didn't want him to be traded. You were hearing the squeaky wheels, who can't have discourse at a reasonable level and are never satisfied.
There's a difference between recognition and performance.
Nah, he played well, got hurt, came back worse due to the injury. He was called out for missing a practice and that was it. Everything was majorly overblown. Before the injury, he was great, and after the injury, he was still a solid contributor. Also, it's dangerous to read any small group of fans' opinions as indicative of reality. Plenty of fans weren't saying anything because they weren't disappointed or didn't want him to be traded. You were hearing the squeaky wheels, who can't have discourse at a reasonable level and are never satisfied.
Recognition is key though when talking about Selke nomination. I personally have thought for a while now Plekanec hasn't deserved enough recognition for his stellar defensive play and could easily have deserved a nomination or two (not an actual win, to be clear) in the past 5 years or so.
Anyhow, to you and the others regarding the external views on off-ice issues being blown out of proportion, as a Habs fan, I certainly know what you mean and it can be very annoying when it starts spreading for the wrong reasons.
I remember watching Oshie play live at the Bell Centre a couple of years back. Game was crazy entertaining/frustrating and finished in OT. To me, #74 on the Blues was the most noticeable player on the ice for both teams. I didn't know much about him before that game, but he certainly did make quite the impression.
I would say he's the third most valuable skater on the Blues behind Pietrangelo and Backes. The Blues don't want to pay anymore than they have to, obviously, but they aren't going to part with him unless there's an extremely good reason to do so.
I would say he's the third most valuable skater on the Blues behind Pietrangelo and Backes. The Blues don't want to pay anymore than they have to, obviously, but they aren't going to part with him unless there's an extremely good reason to do so.
I'd say Shattenkirk has more value, but Oshie is up there.
I'd say Shattenkirk has more value, but Oshie is up there.
You can definitely make a case for Shattenkirk. Personally, I would like to see how Shattenkirk responds to a tougher assignment workload before I switch the two. The only regular defenseman who had easier minutes last year was Russell. The only skater who logged harder minutes than Oshie last year was Backes, and only just barely. Nobody else was particularly close to those two.
I think Oshie has earned his place among the top defensive forwards in the league. TJ finished tied for 6th(with Selke winner Patrice Bergeron) in defensive point shares and finished 11th in defensive gvt among forwards this past season. Also, Oshie's stellar defense is not a recent development, he has been playing defense at a high level since he broke into league.
"One of these things is not like the others... one of these things just isn't the same..."
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Originally Posted by Kershaw
lol Plekanec.
To me he is, and he is very under-appreciated and you guys just confirm that. If he was slightly better in the FO department, he would be a shoe-in (though wouldn't that involve that wingers can't win the Selke?). He's elite defensively and one of the greatest PK forwards in the entire League. With Price, he was the main reason last season's abysmal Habs finished among the top teams in PK%.
I enjoy watching Oshie more than any other Blue, I think many fans say that, but he's got me worried a little bit about his contract demands. I figured the Blues would offer him a 4 yr deal around 4 yrs and he would take it. Negotiations are going longer than most expected which makes me think he may be asking for Backed money. If that's the case, he could end up being the piece that we use to get a partner for Petro.
His defensive game has always been very, very good. The issues with Oshie, I assume, were about issues off the ice, which were always blown out of proportion IMO.
Could you give me some info on this, never heard of anything except the underage drinking.
I enjoy watching Oshie more than any other Blue, I think many fans say that, but he's got me worried a little bit about his contract demands. I figured the Blues would offer him a 4 yr deal around 4 yrs and he would take it. Negotiations are going longer than most expected which makes me think he may be asking for Backed money. If that's the case, he could end up being the piece that we use to get a partner for Petro.
Personally, I doubt the price is the sticking point. My hunch is that it's the term. The Blues will be hoping for that 4-5 year contract, and Oshie will probably want a shorter one. Chances are good that he's willing to agree to a longer contract if he gets something else that he wants (a bit more money, a NMC/NTC, some perks, etc.), but that's where the real negotiation comes in.
Personally, I doubt the price is the sticking point. My hunch is that it's the term. The Blues will be hoping for that 4-5 year contract, and Oshie will probably want a shorter one. Chances are good that he's willing to agree to a longer contract if he gets something else that he wants (a bit more money, a NMC/NTC, some perks, etc.), but that's where the real negotiation comes in.
This is what I have been worried about all along with Oshie is the term. Which is why I have said depending on how this negotiation goes I am in favor of moving him. I personally think if he agrees to longer term something that eats up say 3 years so basically a 5 year deal I see him asking for 25 million. I guess I could live with that but it would be a overpayment by about .5 million. He knows if he reaches the market he will get at least 5 million per and possibly 6 years. Depending on who is on the market and how he performs in the next 2 years he could be in line for 6 million to a desperate team.
Could you give me some info on this, never heard of anything except the underage drinking.
There's not a lot to tell.
To the best of my knowledge, this is the gist of it: He was arrested at UND was for underage drinking (along with Toews and a few other hockey players). He was also arrested during his junior year for disorderly conduct with Mike Radja. After drinking, they were both stuck in an elevator after a game, and they both peed in the elevator. There was a couple of noise violations as well, I think.
During his time with the Blues, the only official team incident was missing one practice (UND played a huge game the night before). He is (was?) a notorious partier, but it's never affected his play or practice with the Blues except for that one incident. He is, by all accounts, a very hard worker on and off the ice.
That's it. Partying in college and the one incident with the Blues.
He would be the same player that he is in Hitchcock's, and that is not a superstar.
Yea that guy doesnt know that the two systems are nearly identical. In regards to Edler, isnt he somewhat inconsistent. I definately like his game but i think i agree that the trade would make a bigger hole that it would fill.
