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Old
07-12-2012, 04:04 PM
  #76
HockeyGuruPitka
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
If Abdelkader is in the deal instead of Miller, I can't see how the Leafs can refuse this deal.

With this deal we address a lot of needs:

1-We upgrade at center. Get a 60ish points playmaking center with very good defensive instinct. Would fit very well between Lupul and Kessel.

2-We get more physical. It's tough to loose Kulemin, but we get Abdelkader who has about the same size, and he's more physical. We also get Quincey who is a physical defenseman.

3- We unload Lombardi contract, and we get a young bottom 6er with decent potential (Emmerton).

It's tough to loose Gunnarsson on the defense, but Quincey will be able to replace him, and we have guy like Percy and Finn in the system who play the same style as Gunnarsson that can maybe replace him in the future.
How close to a Stanley does this trade bring the leafs? Trading a top pairing defense man for another redundant 2nd line C unfortunately (regardless of his defensive ability) does not bring Toronto any closer to a cup. Its not just about making trades, its about making trades that make sense. You seem to jump all over trades that have equal value yet dont actually address/fill needs for both teams. Its an equation and this equation doesn't really add up for the leafs.

I like Filppula, but hes a worse version of Grabovski. Gunnarsson is a 26 minute player. If you trade a guy like that, you better be sure the player your getting will 100% fill a role with flying colors. If Detroit needs defense then they are going to have to overpay or find a better alternative. You seem to think that replacing Gunnarsson will be very easy. Maybe... in 3-4 years if you want to wait for a defense man.

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07-12-2012, 04:11 PM
  #77
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By getting Abdelkader and Quincey we would actually be a more physical team.
Abdelkader wasn't mentioned in the OP's trade

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07-12-2012, 04:31 PM
  #78
Petes2424
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
How close to a Stanley does this trade bring the leafs? Trading a top pairing defense man for another redundant 2nd line C unfortunately (regardless of his defensive ability) does not bring Toronto any closer to a cup. Its not just about making trades, its about making trades that make sense. You seem to jump all over trades that have equal value yet dont actually address/fill needs for both teams. Its an equation and this equation doesn't really add up for the leafs.

I like Filppula, but hes a worse version of Grabovski. Gunnarsson is a 26 minute player. If you trade a guy like that, you better be sure the player your getting will 100% fill a role with flying colors. If Detroit needs defense then they are going to have to overpay or find a better alternative. You seem to think that replacing Gunnarsson will be very easy. Maybe... in 3-4 years if you want to wait for a defense man.
Did you just say Filppula is a "worse version" of Grabovski? Really not sure what planet or player some people are watching. My guess? It's a lack of watching Filppula at all and a pre-conceived notion he's a number 3 center due to playing in Detroit.

And memo to Leaf fan. Gunnarson is NOT a top 2 defenseman. On the Leafs yes, but not in the league. He wouldnt have been in Detroit's top 4 last year and he's on par with Quincey currently while he's only a year younger.

Gunnarson had 21 pts and a -9 rating while averaging 21:42
Quincey had 26 pts and a -1 rating while averaging 21:52

For the life of me Detroit would be stupid to make such a trade because honestly it really just comes down to Kulemin for Filppula and that's a clear win for the Leafs. How do some people really just not get this? This is a slam dunk trade for Toronto.

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07-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
How close to a Stanley does this trade bring the leafs? Trading a top pairing defense man for another redundant 2nd line C unfortunately (regardless of his defensive ability) does not bring Toronto any closer to a cup. Its not just about making trades, its about making trades that make sense. You seem to jump all over trades that have equal value yet dont actually address/fill needs for both teams. Its an equation and this equation doesn't really add up for the leafs.

I like Filppula, but hes a worse version of Grabovski. Gunnarsson is a 26 minute player. If you trade a guy like that, you better be sure the player your getting will 100% fill a role with flying colors. If Detroit needs defense then they are going to have to overpay or find a better alternative. You seem to think that replacing Gunnarsson will be very easy. Maybe... in 3-4 years if you want to wait for a defense man.
U actually think that every trade any team does gets them almost to Stanley Cup?

Gunnarsson is NOT a 1/2 defender from any point of wiew! Wait 5yrs and hope...

Filppula is just about what ANY team would want! C who plays pp, pk and 5v5. U can put him out just about any situation and he can play it! U cant say that about Grabovski and Kulemin... This was actually the first year Fil had the luxury to play with better players than his usual 3rd liners and he was the playmaker. Zetterberg were feeding from Fil, not the other way around.

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07-12-2012, 04:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Did you just say Filppula is a "worse version" of Grabovski? Really not sure what planet or player some people are watching. My guess? It's a lack of watching Filppula at all and a pre-conceived notion he's a number 3 center due to playing in Detroit.

And memo to Leaf fan. Gunnarson is NOT a top 2 defenseman. On the Leafs yes, but not in the league. He wouldnt have been in Detroit's top 4 last year and he's on par with Quincey currently while he's only a year younger.

Gunnarson had 21 pts and a -9 rating while averaging 21:42
Quincey had 26 pts and a -1 rating while averaging 21:52

For the life of me Detroit would be stupid to make such a trade because honestly it really just comes down to Kulemin for Filppula and that's a clear win for the Leafs. How do some people really just not get this? This is a slam dunk trade for Toronto.
meh Datsyuk wants a russian linemate and I want them to be hardworking so it fills a need. I knew i had to give some value up and Filppula seemed to fit your needs the best from who Detroit would realistically offer.

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07-12-2012, 05:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
meh Datsyuk wants a russian linemate and I want them to be hardworking so it fills a need. I knew i had to give some value up and Filppula seemed to fit your needs the best from who Detroit would realistically offer.
Where did Datsyuk say he wanted a russian linemate? Then sign Semin cause giving up Filppula for Kulemin is a risky move. If Detroit moves Filppula it'll be in a big deal or for a quality defenseman who's made a name for himself already.

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07-12-2012, 05:11 PM
  #82
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I think it's a pretty good trade.

Detroit gets tougher and the switch up on the back end probably ends up helping them enough that it would make a difference.

Leafs fans are crazy if they think that it would be better to have JVR at center. The guy can't even play wing consistently. Filppula would be a huge upgrade for Toronto. They don't have a single center even nearly good as Filppula and Kessel is the only first line forward they've got.

Think about how hard a time JVR had putting points up on a regular basis playing with an offensively loaded team like Philly. You can't possibly expect things to turn out well if you're going to throw this guy onto the first line and have him play a position he isn't accustomed to in the biggest hockey market in the world.

He's still young and still has potential to turn into a great player and I'm positive that Burke would jump at this move. Toronto has tons of d-men and it's more important for them to upgrade their top 6 six than to hold onto their bottom six and a little bit of toughness.

Toronto desperately needs to upgrade their top 6 unless they want to turn into a team which has as hard a time attracting free agents as the Islanders and Oilers have in the past.
It's not better to have JvR at centre. It's better to have Connolly or Bozak at centre with JvR on the left wing and Kulemin on the 2nd line.

The Leafs already have Grabovski, Connolly, and Bozak who are all comparable to Filppula and don't cost Kulemin/Gunnarsson.

It's simply a case where unless the Leafs are upgrading substantially on Connolly/Bozak, they're best off keeping what they have at centre and waiting for UFA next year.

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While I agree Filpulla is a #2 center he has shown ability to be an average top line forward. He was quite dominant during some of our cup runs in the mid rounds. Give the guy two big dominant wingers and he can fill the top line role more than adequately. Filpulla is the ultimate support player. He never brings a line down and always enhances his wingmates. If you have a star winger like Kessel or Lupul having a passive pass first center who is defensively responsible might be exactly what you need.


Franzen Filpulla Hossa (against the ducks in our cup loosing year they put up stupid numbers and are the only reason we beat them)
Franzen Filpulla Samuelson (played very well in cup year)
That was before Filpulla really started to break out offensively. He is a better player today.

Filpulla will never be a Datsyuk, Crosby, Richards type who drives the entire line but he could easily be an Adam Oates/Ron Francis/ Gomez(with nj) type center with a quality winger or two.
Toronto doesn't have 2 big dominant wingers to put with Filppula... so that point is moot.

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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
By even using Connolly/Lombardi in the same breathe as Filppula, it's gonna be hard to conclude you've ever watched Filppula play. Also, we all like Gunnarson but you're describing him as though he's Chris Pronger. By adding Quincey, there's not much, or any drop off.

And who's one of these bonafide #1 guys the Leafs would be able to land using the same guys? Filppula was top 25 in helpers last year, adding 23 goals. He's over .5 ppg player in the playoffs. He would be our #1. There's no doubt about it.
By suggesting that they shouldn't be compared, it's impossible to suggest that you've ever seen the Leafs play. Filppula is a great two-way centre, but from an offensive dominance standpoint, he's quite similar to Connolly, and on a non-checking unit, the differences between Connolly/Filppula are irrelevant.

We're describing Gunnarsson as our best and smartest defensive defenceman. He's objectively overvalued in Toronto because of that (partner for Phaneuf). With Quincey, we have a substantial dropoff in those departments, an area we cannot afford to sacrifice to get a redundant centre.

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07-12-2012, 05:21 PM
  #83
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U actually think that every trade any team does gets them almost to Stanley Cup?

Gunnarsson is NOT a 1/2 defender from any point of wiew! Wait 5yrs and hope...

Filppula is just about what ANY team would want! C who plays pp, pk and 5v5. U can put him out just about any situation and he can play it! U cant say that about Grabovski and Kulemin... This was actually the first year Fil had the luxury to play with better players than his usual 3rd liners and he was the playmaker. Zetterberg were feeding from Fil, not the other way around.
No it doesn't... but what trades have to do is work towards that goal.

Gunnarsson is absolutely a #2 defenceman -- from Toronto's point of view.... because that's what he is here, while his $1.5m salary helps compensate for Dion's $6.5m salary.

Nobody is suggesting that the Leafs wouldn't want Filppula -- we're simply objecting to the cost. Gunnarsson is practically untouchable in Toronto because his combination of salary, youth, and minimalistic but versatile style of play should keep him as an affordable and versatile top 4 defenceman for us long term. Kulemin is a year removed from 30 goals and even when not producing, provides much needed size to our forward group. He also comes with control.

With Filppula, you've got him for a year then he's UFA. He'll likely be looking for Grabovski-type money and we won't have that because we'll still need a #1 C, a replacement for Gunnarsson, and more size up front. The Leafs aren't winning the cup next year, so they're better off with 1 hole to fill than 3.

BTW, Grabovski can play PP/PK and is one of our most effective players 5on5. Kulemin was the same 1 year ago.

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07-12-2012, 05:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
It's not better to have JvR at centre. It's better to have Connolly or Bozak at centre with JvR on the left wing and Kulemin on the 2nd line.

The Leafs already have Grabovski, Connolly, and Bozak who are all comparable to Filppula and don't cost Kulemin/Gunnarsson.

It's simply a case where unless the Leafs are upgrading substantially on Connolly/Bozak, they're best off keeping what they have at centre and waiting for UFA next year.



Toronto doesn't have 2 big dominant wingers to put with Filppula... so that point is moot.



By suggesting that they shouldn't be compared, it's impossible to suggest that you've ever seen the Leafs play. Filppula is a great two-way centre, but from an offensive dominance standpoint, he's quite similar to Connolly, and on a non-checking unit, the differences between Connolly/Filppula are irrelevant.

We're describing Gunnarsson as our best and smartest defensive defenceman. He's objectively overvalued in Toronto because of that (partner for Phaneuf). With Quincey, we have a substantial dropoff in those departments, an area we cannot afford to sacrifice to get a redundant centre.
Care to elaborate how Quincey is a substantial drop from Gunnarsson? His age? His less than physical play, his +/-, his TOI?

As for Connolly, he had a great upside until his head started bouncing off things. He's damaged goods with a heart. Love the guy but he doesnt bring much to the table.

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07-12-2012, 05:25 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Care to elaborate how Quincey is a substantial drop from Gunnarsson? His age? His less than physical play, his +/-, his TOI?

As for Connolly, he had a great upside until his head started bouncing off things. He's damaged goods with a heart. Love the guy but he doesnt bring much to the table.
Brains. Quincey is a physical defenceman similar to Phaneuf. He needs to be playing with a conservative guy that makes a solid breakout pass like Gunnarsson. They may be similar overall defenceman in terms of calibre, which even if is the case doesn't matter, because Gunnarsson is objectively overvalued in Toronto because of fit.

We're not trying to convince you that Gunnarsson is the second coming or that you should be lining up to trade your best players for him. We're simply saying that there is ZERO interest in moving him unless the player we're getting in return is a fairly safe bet to fill a spot more important than his long term. The most that Filppula could be relied upon to fill in Toronto (if he had a contract) would be the #3 centre, and #2 defenceman is more important than #3 centre.

Connolly still has great upside, he just needs to play with size in order to be successful and we didn't have that last year. He's also got the best upside of all -- that we don't have to give up any valuable members of our team to get him.

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07-12-2012, 05:33 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
How close to a Stanley does this trade bring the leafs? Trading a top pairing defense man for another redundant 2nd line C unfortunately (regardless of his defensive ability) does not bring Toronto any closer to a cup. Its not just about making trades, its about making trades that make sense. You seem to jump all over trades that have equal value yet dont actually address/fill needs for both teams. Its an equation and this equation doesn't really add up for the leafs.

I like Filppula, but hes a worse version of Grabovski. Gunnarsson is a 26 minute player. If you trade a guy like that, you better be sure the player your getting will 100% fill a role with flying colors. If Detroit needs defense then they are going to have to overpay or find a better alternative. You seem to think that replacing Gunnarsson will be very easy. Maybe... in 3-4 years if you want to wait for a defense man.
How close to a Stanley does this trade bring the Leafs? You really think that every trade that a team make make them contender for the Cup? So Burke shouldn't has done the JVR trade because it will not bring us a Cup next year? And how close to a Stanle yCup this trade bring the Leafs? More cloe than we are now.

If Gunnarsson is a top pairing defenseman, Filppula is a first line center.

I didn't jump on this trade because the value is good. If you had read my post, you'll se why I think this trade make sense for the Leafs.

And Filppula isn't worse than Grabovski. Filppula is better, and I'm a big Grabovski fan. Filppula will also probably fit well between Lupul and Kessel, Grabovski can't.

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Abdelkader wasn't mentioned in the OP's trade
Yeah I konw, it was a little bit later in the thread.

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07-12-2012, 05:49 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
To Detroit- RFA rights to Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Lombardi, 3rd
To Toronto- RFA rights to Quincey, Filppula, Emmerton, Abdelkader's RFA rights

Detroit does it to get a solid defensemen for their top 4, a hard working russian who likes to shoot for Datsyuk and a center who will probably be one of the best #4 centers in the league. They also clear some roster spots since they'll have 16 forwards signed after Abdelkader.....

Toronto does it to upgrade their #1 center position. At the very least their top line will be better defensively. They ditch Lombardi's contract and get a top 4 defensemen who plays with grit. They also get a few players to help out in their bottom 6 as I see you have next to no one.... The 3rd is mainly to offset the balance between Kulemin and Filppula.

Edit-changed miller to abdelkader seeing as the leafs want more physical players.

And how exactly does this lateral (at best) trade help the Leafs improve their team?

You're asking the Leafs to give up their best two-way forward (Kulemin) who can score 60 points while playing hard and somewhat gritty for a center (Fillpula) who is (at best) an unneeded, but decent, #2 center.

Then you ask the Leafs to downgrade from Gunnarsson (their best all-round defenceman) to Quincey (who may be better offensively but not defensively).

Neither of these two parts of the deal are worth the effort of either team to swap.

As for the rest of the assets in this deal, they're all immaterial as none of them need to be moved by either team.

Sorry, but no thanks. This deal doesn't help the Leafs AT ALL.

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07-12-2012, 06:30 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Did you just say Filppula is a "worse version" of Grabovski? Really not sure what planet or player some people are watching. My guess? It's a lack of watching Filppula at all and a pre-conceived notion he's a number 3 center due to playing in Detroit.

And memo to Leaf fan. Gunnarson is NOT a top 2 defenseman. On the Leafs yes, but not in the league. He wouldnt have been in Detroit's top 4 last year and he's on par with Quincey currently while he's only a year younger.

Gunnarson had 21 pts and a -9 rating while averaging 21:42
Quincey had 26 pts and a -1 rating while averaging 21:52

For the life of me Detroit would be stupid to make such a trade because honestly it really just comes down to Kulemin for Filppula and that's a clear win for the Leafs. How do some people really just not get this? This is a slam dunk trade for Toronto.
I don't think he meant by saying that Filupula being a worse version of grabbo to be a dig on Filup. This is really about Grabbo being much better or Filup not being too much of an upgrade. That said, I would be curious if someone digs out Filup puck possession stats versus Grabbo (i.e. fenwick or corsi).

Also I have to agree with the OP here, Gunnar plays against toughest competition (other teams #1 lines Pavel/crosby/stamkos etc) in a shutdown role. I'm not sure Quincy played those same difficult minutes (Lidstrom and White did as I recall). That said, on a really strong defensive team Gunnar wouldn't be a #2 defencer (i.e. Nashville last year with Shea/Suter) but on a weaker team (the leafs or perhaps Detroit next year he might challenge). But if Gunnar is traded away from the leafs who do the leafs place in that #2 role beside Phaneuf. That's his point and getting another grabbo doesn't really help the team with a poor GA and better GF.

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07-12-2012, 06:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
To Detroit- RFA rights to Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Lombardi, 3rd
To Toronto- RFA rights to Quincey, Filppula, Emmerton, Abdelkader's RFA rights

Detroit does it to get a solid defensemen for their top 4, a hard working russian who likes to shoot for Datsyuk and a center who will probably be one of the best #4 centers in the league. They also clear some roster spots since they'll have 16 forwards signed after Abdelkader.....

Toronto does it to upgrade their #1 center position. At the very least their top line will be better defensively. They ditch Lombardi's contract and get a top 4 defensemen who plays with grit. They also get a few players to help out in their bottom 6 as I see you have next to no one.... The 3rd is mainly to offset the balance between Kulemin and Filppula.

Edit-changed miller to abdelkader seeing as the leafs want more physical players.
As a Leafs' fan, I would do this deal if only because I really like Filppula as a player.

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07-12-2012, 06:47 PM
  #90
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[QUOTE=QMJHLfollower;52479707]

I didn't jump on this trade because the value is good. If you had read my post, you'll se why I think this trade make sense for the Leafs.

And Filppula isn't worse than Grabovski. Filppula is better, and I'm a big Grabovski fan. Filppula will also probably fit well between Lupul and Kessel, Grabovski can't.


QUOTE]

Sorry, but in what league is Filpulla better than Grabo? lol

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07-12-2012, 07:02 PM
  #91
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Sorry, but in what league is Filpulla better than Grabo? lol
Sorry, but people don't realise that Filppula had 66 points this year? He's also very godd defensively.

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07-12-2012, 07:14 PM
  #92
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Brains. Quincey is a physical defenceman similar to Phaneuf. He needs to be playing with a conservative guy that makes a solid breakout pass like Gunnarsson. They may be similar overall defenceman in terms of calibre, which even if is the case doesn't matter, because Gunnarsson is objectively overvalued in Toronto because of fit.

We're not trying to convince you that Gunnarsson is the second coming or that you should be lining up to trade your best players for him. We're simply saying that there is ZERO interest in moving him unless the player we're getting in return is a fairly safe bet to fill a spot more important than his long term. The most that Filppula could be relied upon to fill in Toronto (if he had a contract) would be the #3 centre, and #2 defenceman is more important than #3 centre.

Connolly still has great upside, he just needs to play with size in order to be successful and we didn't have that last year. He's also got the best upside of all -- that we don't have to give up any valuable members of our team to get him.
Still rather have Quincey and Filppula than Gunnarsson and Kulemin. Just simply makes the team better..

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07-12-2012, 07:32 PM
  #93
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[QUOTE=Gavy;52482529]
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post

I didn't jump on this trade because the value is good. If you had read my post, you'll se why I think this trade make sense for the Leafs.

And Filppula isn't worse than Grabovski. Filppula is better, and I'm a big Grabovski fan. Filppula will also probably fit well between Lupul and Kessel, Grabovski can't.


QUOTE]

Sorry, but in what league is Filpulla better than Grabo? lol
The NHL. I'll take the similiar stats, and the .5+ ppg in 91 career playoff games proven guy over Grabo anyday. It's close though.... but Filppula is the better player.

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07-12-2012, 07:39 PM
  #94
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Still rather have Quincey and Filppula than Gunnarsson and Kulemin. Just simply makes the team better..
If you're the Red Wings... maybe.

For the Leafs, it makes us far worse. Smaller up front, much weaker defensively. Two areas that were big issues for us last year.

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07-12-2012, 07:47 PM
  #95
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If you're the Red Wings... maybe.

For the Leafs, it makes us far worse. Smaller up front, much weaker defensively. Two areas that were big issues for us last year.
How does it make the Leafs weaker defensively? Because Gunnarsson is known more as a defensive defenseman? His numbers are worse than Quincey. The Leafs should and would if really offered, take this trade with a huge smile on their face.

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07-12-2012, 08:04 PM
  #96
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How does it make the Leafs weaker defensively? Because Gunnarsson is known more as a defensive defenseman? His numbers are worse than Quincey. The Leafs should and would if really offered, take this trade with a huge smile on their face.
Because Gunnarsson is a far better partner for Phaneuf than anyone on our roster or Quincey is. He plays a smart and conservative game, rarely finding himself out of position, but also has the tools to effectively separate puck and attacking player. For a defenceman who's out of position as often as Phaneuf is, he needs a partner like Gunnarsson. Quincey is another guy like Phaneuf -- an guy who thinks offence and throws the body around, but isn't all that solid defensively. Toronto has plenty of offence from their blueline in the form of Phaneuf/Gardiner/Liles/Franson.

Building a successful defence isn't about numbers (especially when you're looking at differences in +/- between one of the worst teams in the league and one of the best) -- it's about putting players in positions to succeed. You don't trade a guy like Gunnarsson who you objectively overvalue for a guy like Quincey who would be valued at even par, at best.

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07-12-2012, 08:05 PM
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Connolly still has great upside, he just needs to play with size in order to be successful and we didn't have that last year. He's also got the best upside of all -- that we don't have to give up any valuable members of our team to get him.
see i can understand that leaf fans don't wanna trade gunnarsson, and kinda understand why you don't wanna trade Kulemin. However, you can't say you have the skill in Connolly for ur number 1 center and then say he needs to play with size. If he needs to play with tougher linemates he's obviously not a fit for ur #1 center. Filppula however has played well without needing size for his linemates. He had Hudler the midget and Zetterberg who's smaller then kessel for linemates and still scored 66 points.

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07-12-2012, 08:12 PM
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see i can understand that leaf fans don't wanna trade gunnarsson, and kinda understand why you don't wanna trade Kulemin. However, you can't say you have the skill in Connolly for ur number 1 center and then say he needs to play with size. If he needs to play with tougher linemates he's obviously not a fit for ur #1 center. Filppula however has played well without needing size for his linemates. He had Hudler the midget and Zetterberg who's smaller then kessel for linemates and still scored 66 points.
Actually... we do have the skill in Connolly. What we lack is the size.

He's not a fit for our #1 line because of that lack of size (hopefully rectified with JvR), but that doesn't mean Filppula is. Heck, sometimes I think people forget that line was on pace to score over 80 goals before Lupul got hurt. Skill isn't the issue there.

The reason we need an upgrade at #1C is because that line is atrocious in the +/- department. Getting a guy who thinks defence isn't going to make any difference, because he'll still be 5on3 all the time anyways. It's not like Filppula is some defensive saviour and Connolly/Bozak are terrible in their own end. The Leafs need a guy who can be dominant with the puck in the dirty areas, 200 feet away from our net. Filppula isn't that, no matter how hard you try to make him out to be.

Zetterberg and Hudler are much stronger puck posession and two-way players than Kessel / Lupul are, so it's not really comparable.

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07-12-2012, 08:37 PM
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Zetterberg and Hudler are much stronger puck posession and two-way players than Kessel / Lupul are, so it's not really comparable.
Any credibility you had goes out the window when you suggest Hudler is a two-way player let alone mention "strong."

Hudler is horrible defensively. It is his main knock. He is too slow and too small. He is great offensively and surprisingly willing to go to the dirty areas for a small guy but defense no way. He is your prototypical right wing floater.

Filpulla is probably our third best defensive forward fyi. He excels at center from a defensive perspective because of his speed. If you have floating forwards (kessel) and you want to make sure the center will cover for him Filpulla is better than Dats and Zets. That is just the kinda guy you want.

In any regard this thread is stupid. This trade never happens despite value being close. I like some of TOs players but the wings are not moving Filpulla for anyone not named Ryan or Nash. Period and it really is not negotiable (value be damned). The brass is just values him too much and he can play any of the 12 forward positions.

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07-12-2012, 09:00 PM
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Any credibility you had goes out the window when you suggest Hudler is a two-way player let alone mention "strong."

Hudler is horrible defensively. It is his main knock. He is too slow and too small. He is great offensively and surprisingly willing to go to the dirty areas for a small guy but defense no way. He is your prototypical right wing floater.

Filpulla is probably our third best defensive forward fyi. He excels at center from a defensive perspective because of his speed. If you have floating forwards (kessel) and you want to make sure the center will cover for him Filpulla is better than Dats and Zets. That is just the kinda guy you want.

In any regard this thread is stupid. This trade never happens despite value being close. I like some of TOs players but the wings are not moving Filpulla for anyone not named Ryan or Nash. Period and it really is not negotiable (value be damned). The brass is just values him too much and he can play any of the 12 forward positions.
I'm not saying he's a stong two-way player, I'm suggesting he's stronger than Kessel/Lupul, partially because he's stronger on the puck.

As repeatedly mentioned. Defensve prowess above a respectable level (that Bozak / Connolly both achieve) is of no value to us in the context of a #1 centre. When you have floating wingers, the best defence is a strong offence. You want a centre who is strong on the puck, not a guy who's going to hang back, because all that's going to result in is Kessel being left on an island outside of the zone, and Filppula being left shorthanded inside the zone.

The forward group has to move as a cohesive unit, and since neither of Kessel/Lupul are strong enough on the puck to maintain posession once in the offensive zone, they need someone who is, or to be broken up. If the latter happens, we won't need Filppula, because Connolly will be put in a position to succeed.

Sounds like we finally agree on something here -- you don't want to trade Filppula unless it's for a star player and we don't want to trade Kulemin unless it's for a star player. Both teams can go away happy with what they have.

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