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Old
07-12-2012, 09:01 PM
  #101
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Hey now, Hudler is a pretty strong guy. It takes at least 50 MPH winds to blow him over.

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07-12-2012, 09:31 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm not saying he's a stong two-way player, I'm suggesting he's stronger than Kessel/Lupul, partially because he's stronger on the puck.

As repeatedly mentioned. Defensve prowess above a respectable level (that Bozak / Connolly both achieve) is of no value to us in the context of a #1 centre. When you have floating wingers, the best defence is a strong offence. You want a centre who is strong on the puck, not a guy who's going to hang back, because all that's going to result in is Kessel being left on an island outside of the zone, and Filppula being left shorthanded inside the zone.
1 Hudler is not strong on the puck at all

2 Filppula is a playmaker and has outscored Bozak with inferior line mates, and Tim Connolly doesn't work if u keep the two together. So he's pretty much an upgrade to what you have regardless.

3 Just because we said Filppula is responsible defensively doesn't mean he just stays in his zone the whole time, he's definitely not as passive as u seem to think

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07-12-2012, 10:51 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
1 Hudler is not strong on the puck at all

2 Filppula is a playmaker and has outscored Bozak with inferior line mates, and Tim Connolly doesn't work if u keep the two together. So he's pretty much an upgrade to what you have regardless.

3 Just because we said Filppula is responsible defensively doesn't mean he just stays in his zone the whole time, he's definitely not as passive as u seem to think
on the second point, filppula's line mates were hudler/cleary and zetterberg, fail to see how playing with Zetterberg is a downgrade from anyone the leafs have.

another thing id like to touch on (not directed at wingz rule): Im seeing lots of stat comparisons to make a point. lets get things clear here, detroit is a much better team then toronto at the moment, so throwing out +/- comparisons doesnt make any sense. Points wise toronto as a team had 17 less goals for and 61 more GA. A swing of 78 points.

filppula, without zetterberg, was a 35-40 point player; Id say he still has a lot to prove. so to anyone claiming filppula is a HUGE improvement over what we have, id have to say theres definitely room for debate there.

could he be what the leafs need between kessel and lupul? sure, but so could kadri (or apparently JVR). its definitely a risk to give up this much for an unknown quantity.

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07-12-2012, 11:31 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Phatic View Post
on the second point, filppula's line mates were hudler/cleary and zetterberg, fail to see how playing with Zetterberg is a downgrade from anyone the leafs have.

filppula, without zetterberg, was a 35-40 point player; Id say he still has a lot to prove. so to anyone claiming filppula is a HUGE improvement over what we have, id have to say theres definitely room for debate there.

could he be what the leafs need between kessel and lupul? sure, but so could kadri (or apparently JVR). its definitely a risk to give up this much for an unknown quantity.
Hudler was too small/slow to accomplish much on his own, so I'd say the leafs duo is an upgrade for that sole reason alone. It should also be noted that kessel is a better sniper than Zetterberg IMO and that'd be much more beneficial for a playmaker like Filppula.

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07-13-2012, 12:36 AM
  #105
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The only part of that deal that sucks is losing Gunnar.

Other then that, being fans of neither team...I'd do it.

Filp is a legit centre. He got 66pts on the 2/3 line, he's definitely better then that. Would you say that J. Staal was nothing more then a number 3 centre? Didn't think so.

Didnt think so.


Last edited by sully1410: 07-13-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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Old
07-13-2012, 08:22 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jonlin View Post
U actually think that every trade any team does gets them almost to Stanley Cup?

Gunnarsson is NOT a 1/2 defender from any point of wiew! Wait 5yrs and hope...

Filppula is just about what ANY team would want! C who plays pp, pk and 5v5. U can put him out just about any situation and he can play it! U cant say that about Grabovski and Kulemin... This was actually the first year Fil had the luxury to play with better players than his usual 3rd liners and he was the playmaker. Zetterberg were feeding from Fil, not the other way around.
Not insinuating the trade needs to almost get a cup. The trades needs to indicate that the team is building to win a cup. Acquiring fringe 1st or even second line players does not get you to a Stanley cup.

Ok instead of attempting to BS through a long post... if Detroit wasnt able to win with Filppula as their second line C why on earth would the leafs be getting any closer to winning with him as our first? Gunnarsson may not be a top pairing player on all teams in this league, but he definitely is on the leafs. He has been our most consistent player and i firmly believe that he stays in that position throughout this rebuild.

It may be a shock to some on HF but mostly all trades have a winner and a loser. Im only interested in being a winner. If you need my teams defense man then you better be overpaying, because I can guarantee you Brian Burke has never even contemplated acquiring Filppula because hes not an answer to any of our problems even if you continue to force yourself to believe so. Let Filppula get a couple good seasons under his belt and maybe id reconsider.

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:06 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Not insinuating the trade needs to almost get a cup. The trades needs to indicate that the team is building to win a cup. Acquiring fringe 1st or even second line players does not get you to a Stanley cup.

Ok instead of attempting to BS through a long post... if Detroit wasnt able to win with Filppula as their second line C why on earth would the leafs be getting any closer to winning with him as our first? Gunnarsson may not be a top pairing player on all teams in this league, but he definitely is on the leafs. He has been our most consistent player and i firmly believe that he stays in that position throughout this rebuild.

It may be a shock to some on HF but mostly all trades have a winner and a loser. Im only interested in being a winner. If you need my teams defense man then you better be overpaying, because I can guarantee you Brian Burke has never even contemplated acquiring Filppula because hes not an answer to any of our problems even if you continue to force yourself to believe so. Let Filppula get a couple good seasons under his belt and maybe id reconsider.
Every player in the league has a "Value" and by acquiring players with more value, you are one step closer to the playoffs. Filppula would do that for the Leafs. Get them one step closer to the playoffs Then we can worry about getting a Cup.. What Filppula brings up front more than makes up the difference (if any really) between Quincey and Gunnarsson.

This is the Toronto Maple Leafs were talking about. It's time to s

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:29 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Every player in the league has a "Value" and by acquiring players with more value, you are one step closer to the playoffs. Filppula would do that for the Leafs. Get them one step closer to the playoffs Then we can worry about getting a Cup.. What Filppula brings up front more than makes up the difference (if any really) between Quincey and Gunnarsson.

This is the Toronto Maple Leafs were talking about. It's time to s
Sorry, but the trade still makes the Leafs worse... and you don't build teams based on getting players who have more "value". It's about team needs. The Leafs need a major upgrade at center (a #1 center), which Filppula is not. One may not be available right now, but the Leafs already have a stop gap they can use until they can find one who has chemistry with Kessel.

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07-13-2012, 10:37 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Every player in the league has a "Value" and by acquiring players with more value, you are one step closer to the playoffs. Filppula would do that for the Leafs. Get them one step closer to the playoffs Then we can worry about getting a Cup.. What Filppula brings up front more than makes up the difference (if any really) between Quincey and Gunnarsson.

This is the Toronto Maple Leafs were talking about. It's time to s
Quote:
Originally Posted by superrich View Post
Sorry, but the trade still makes the Leafs worse... and you don't build teams based on getting players who have more "value". It's about team needs. The Leafs need a major upgrade at center (a #1 center), which Filppula is not. One may not be available right now, but the Leafs already have a stop gap they can use until they can find one who has chemistry with Kessel.
That's where we'll disagree. Filppula is a major upgrade from most the guys we currently have. I dont care if they have 12 centers on the roster. He makes the team better. It's that simple.

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:43 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
By getting Abdelkader and Quincey we would actually be a more physical team.
Quincey isn't that good though. Gunnar is far and away the better dman.


Weren't detroit fans pretty upset at the play of quincey after they acquired him? I remember reading nothing but complaints about his play...

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Quincey isn't that good though. Gunnar is far and away the better dman.


Weren't detroit fans pretty upset at the play of quincey after they acquired him? I remember reading nothing but complaints about his play...
Detroit has unreasonable expectations for Defensemen. Lidstrom syndrome.

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:22 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
That's where we'll disagree. Filppula is a major upgrade from most the guys we currently have. I dont care if they have 12 centers on the roster. He makes the team better. It's that simple.
A major upgrade is getting a #1 center. The bottom line is, the Leafs need to save their assets for that #1 center rather than giving them up for assets who is a good #2, who will eventually need to be replaced with someone better. On top of that, it's obvious that replacing Filpulla with Bozak, but losing Gunnarsson and Kulemin in the process makes the team worse next year.

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Old
07-13-2012, 05:34 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
The only part of that deal that sucks is losing Gunnar.

Other then that, being fans of neither team...I'd do it.

Filp is a legit centre. He got 66pts on the 2/3 line, he's definitely better then that. Would you say that J. Staal was nothing more then a number 3 centre? Didn't think so.

Didnt think so.
actually filppula was playing top line minutes in detroit, Ill give you a 1/2 line split, but definitely not 3rd liner. might be a good idea to know what youre talking about before commenting.

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Old
07-13-2012, 06:26 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Quincey isn't that good though. Gunnar is far and away the better dman.


Weren't detroit fans pretty upset at the play of quincey after they acquired him? I remember reading nothing but complaints about his play...
Seriously saying that Gunnarson is far and away a better defenseman then Quincey is just unnecessary and ill-informed. Just because some of the loudest fans on this board won't shut up about how "bad" Quincey was doesn't mean it was true. They are the same fans that think that if the Wings don't make the move they want then they made the wrong move and will blast it as long as they can.

Quincey stepped in right away and was not on the same page with his teammates at first. He made several good defensive plays, plays physically and can contribute a lot to the offense. He blocks shots and kills penalties. For some reason some fans of the Wings think that the 19th overall pick in this years draft was a more valuable asset to the Wings. These are the same fans that are up in arms about how we need more defense men.

Quincey does have a lot to prove this year, but don't let a few fanatics sway your judgement on him and don't use bad opinions to say one player is far and away better then the other.

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Old
07-13-2012, 06:36 PM
  #115
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Quincey is hated by Detroit fans because he was released for nothing and they traded a first round pick to get him back. Many of these same negative fans loved to point out that when we released Quincey look at how good he was and what a huge mistake. The guy cannot win and it has to do with a rather spoiled nature of some of the Wings fan-base. I guess when you see a team within the decade with 10 HHOF guys it hurts reasonable judgment.

I am glad they have him, think of life without him right now. With that said if that guy really wants 4 million, I hope we aren't the team that gives it to him.

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:03 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Quincey is hated by Detroit fans because he was released for nothing and they traded a first round pick to get him back. Many of these same negative fans loved to point out that when we released Quincey look at how good he was and what a huge mistake. The guy cannot win and it has to do with a rather spoiled nature of some of the Wings fan-base. I guess when you see a team within the decade with 10 HHOF guys it hurts reasonable judgment.

I am glad they have him, think of life without him right now. With that said if that guy really wants 4 million, I hope we aren't the team that gives it to him.
Wasn't Quincy waived in favor of Lebda - was Quincy playing that poorly?

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Wasn't Quincy waived in favor of Lebda - was Quincy playing that poorly?
He wasn't really playing. He was a 22 year old who had played 6 games that season and 13 total in his career.

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