HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Roberto Luongo XXIII - Next Fall - Administrator Warning Post #548

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-13-2012, 01:26 AM
  #226
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I remember them losing 5-2 in game 6 and Loungo was on the bench before most people bought their popcorn. Just sayin

I flew to Boston for that game, so I remember it well. Still rather be there than not...you are right though, they scored 2 and lost...but the two were after the game was basically over.

Luongo still stole three games in a series...when a goalie steals you three games, your offense needs to get you at least one back. No goalie steals the Stanley Cup, Hasek couldn't do it in Buffalo, Tim Thomas doesn't make the finals if the Bruins offense doesn't steal him a bad game against Tampa. Vancouver's offense just wasn't up to the task.

I can't think of another team that scored 8 goals in 7 Stanley Cup finals games even another loser. They won 2 games where they only scored 1 goal in each...that's incredible.

DJOpus is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 01:36 AM
  #227
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I flew to Boston for that game, so I remember it well. Still rather be there than not...you are right though, they scored 2 and lost...but the two were after the game was basically over.

Luongo still stole three games in a series...when a goalie steals you three games, your offense needs to get you at least one back. No goalie steals the Stanley Cup, Hasek couldn't do it in Buffalo, Tim Thomas doesn't make the finals if the Bruins offense doesn't steal him a bad game against Tampa. Vancouver's offense just wasn't up to the task.

I can't think of another team that scored 8 goals in 7 Stanley Cup finals games even another loser. They won 2 games where they only scored 1 goal in each...that's incredible.
He stole two games. Was really solid in game 2. And blew three games. But this is pretty much history and has been discussed to death.

nhlfan9191 is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:17 AM
  #228
Dr Beinfest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Yup, just like Columbus has no leverage because they want to get rid of Nash.

Just like Columbus had no leverage when they needed to move Jeff Carter's decade long contract...

The fact is, there are very few impact players available right now and a TON of teams looking to acquire them. Anybody that has a valuable player to move will get value, for this reason alone.

People can't seem to wrap their heads around the $70mil cap. Virtually every team is looking to spend money right now, with nothing to spend it on.

There's a reason Mike Gillis is reportedly asking for a 'King's ransom'. Supply and demand.
When you've got a goalie with an NTC and a fat contract, the cap has nothing to do with it. The matter of the fact is that Luongo is only willing to go to certain teams. Moreover, he's a goalie. Demand for goalies is very low, and one could argue that supply of goalies is also pretty high. Surprise surprise, goalies like Evgeni Nabokov found it hard to find a job not too long ago. Not much has changed since. Low options for the Canucks and Gillis, minimal need to pull the trigger from the teams buying, and a blatantly obvious situation in Vancouver where Luongo simply doesn't fit.

I understand that we're not the ones making the deal here, and I understand that there's almost always more to it than we know. And you and the rest of the Nucks fans very well could end up being right at the end of the day. That doesn't mean that you're right right now though. The only fair conclusion here is that Vancouver is going to get much less value for Luongo than he's worth, if they trade him right now. All evidence points towards that. Will that happen? I don't know. Will he even get traded? I don't know. Maybe. Probably. But there's no signs that if/when Luongo gets traded, it'll be for a 'King's Ransom'.

Dr Beinfest is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:33 AM
  #229
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
When you've got a goalie with an NTC and a fat contract, the cap has nothing to do with it. The matter of the fact is that Luongo is only willing to go to certain teams. Moreover, he's a goalie. Demand for goalies is very low, and one could argue that supply of goalies is also pretty high. Surprise surprise, goalies like Evgeni Nabokov found it hard to find a job not too long ago. Not much has changed since. Low options for the Canucks and Gillis, minimal need to pull the trigger from the teams buying, and a blatantly obvious situation in Vancouver where Luongo simply doesn't fit.

I understand that we're not the ones making the deal here, and I understand that there's almost always more to it than we know. And you and the rest of the Nucks fans very well could end up being right at the end of the day. That doesn't mean that you're right right now though. The only fair conclusion here is that Vancouver is going to get much less value for Luongo than he's worth, if they trade him right now. All evidence points towards that. Will that happen? I don't know. Will he even get traded? I don't know. Maybe. Probably. But there's no signs that if/when Luongo gets traded, it'll be for a 'King's Ransom'.
I don't disagree with your logic, but again, Nash, or even Ryan, aren't in dissimilar situations, and yet most fans on here seem to think that they will fetch that "King's Ransom" you bring up. Canucks fans know he's moving, and we know we're losing the trade, and won't get full value for Luongo. That's the way it goes. But not getting full value for a top 5 player at his position, and accepting scraps, is entirely different. We know we won't get a player that will have an impact on our team the same as Luongo will have an impact on team X.

We do need an improvement to our team at a few key positions, so that should open the door for the teams that are reportedly interested. A 3rd line center who can sub in as a top six center for a few months while Kesler is out. A playmaking winger, or at least a good winger with playmaking ability, for when Kesler returns. We can use prospects and picks, but personally, I'd rather roster players that can help us this year. If there is a defender that brings something we don't currently have, who can preferably play right side, I feel we would accept that as a piece as well.

The problem with these pieces, is we can get them through free agency, internally, or already have an equivalent piece on the team. Arnott is an option as a bottom six center, and we have Schroeder looking to break out too. As for wingers, Doan and Semin are still free agents, all be it pie-eyed, but Jensen nearly made the team last year and brings what we need. Defenders like Tanev, Connauton, Sauve and others are also likely to make the team, so any returning pieces would have to beat these three, plus Joslin, plus Alberts, plus play the right side.

Any way, inflammitory proposal time!

Chicago would send Bolland, Hjalmarsson, Crawford (if he needs to move in the same deal...he doesn't do anything for us, but Hawks fans have insisted he be included...I say move him for Bozak) for Luongo, Alberts (if Crawford is included) and a 1st from Vancouver.

I would happily include Raymond if he serves any purpose in the Chicago organization more then in Vancouver.

Cogburn is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:37 AM
  #230
Vankiller Whale
Bow down
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,049
vCash: 1666
/\What role does Hjalmarsson fill on our roster? And why would one of the most prospect poor teams in the league give a 1st to one of the most prospect rich?

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:46 AM
  #231
legendinblue
LEAFS SUCK
 
legendinblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,198
vCash: 500
What is Gillis asking for anyway?

legendinblue is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:48 AM
  #232
Vankiller Whale
Bow down
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,049
vCash: 1666
Quote:
Originally Posted by o0Leaf fan0o View Post
What is Gillis asking for anyway?
Nobody knows.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:50 AM
  #233
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Nobody knows.
It doesnt stop people from guessing and representing those guesses as facts.

cyris is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 02:50 AM
  #234
LickTheEnvelope
6th Overall Blows
 
LickTheEnvelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 28,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by o0Leaf fan0o View Post
What is Gillis asking for anyway?
As mentioned, know one knows.

I honestly think he might be waiting to see what happens with Doan. He's the last big RW UFA that would fit on the Canucks.

If he goes elsewhere then the deal for Luongo will likely need a 2nd line RW. If Doan signs in Van Gillis could probably just go for prospects/picks... maybe a young center or a depth center.

LickTheEnvelope is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 03:00 AM
  #235
Co Ho*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
I think the Gardiner rumour from Toronto sounds accurate.
From Florida, I'd guess Bjugstad but that's just a shot in the dark. Of course some salary dumps/picks involved.

Co Ho* is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 03:16 AM
  #236
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,489
vCash: 500
Waste of his time if he's holding out for Gardiner.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 03:24 AM
  #237
Respect Your Edler
Thank You 52
 
Respect Your Edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: China
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Waste of his time if he's holding out for Gardiner.
He has plenty of time until the season starts. Deals don't get done until they have to be done. They'll wait until all at the big FAs are done.

Respect Your Edler is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 04:32 AM
  #238
Barilkos Ghost
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barcelona
Country: Spain
Posts: 79
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
He has plenty of time until the season starts. Deals don't get done until they have to be done. They'll wait until all at the big FAs are done.
Doesn't matter how long he waits, he's not getting Jake Gardiner.

Barilkos Ghost is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 04:49 AM
  #239
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilkos Ghost View Post
Doesn't matter how long he waits, he's not getting Jake Gardiner.
I agree, but he may have in mind a counter offer and he is just waiting for Burke to be more willing/desperate to make a deal.

Numbers is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 04:57 AM
  #240
Zippgunn
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lhuntshi
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo's career playoff percentage is in the top 20 of NHL goaltenders of all time. Only 3 spots behind Lundqvist.
Stats are fun. Here's one; He has 7 wins and 11 losses in 18 playoff elimination games. 4 of those 11 losses were amongst his 5 worst games in a Canuck uniform. Two of them were games where, if he had been able to win them, he would be a Stanley Cup winner. Not a money goalie.

Zippgunn is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 05:26 AM
  #241
handyj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 136
vCash: 500
If the reports about Gillis wanting a big return for Luongo are accurate then I don't really see him getting traded until maybe someone gets desperate mid-season. As a Leafs fan I can say that although our goaltending was pretty poor last year, it makes no sense to trade guys like Lupul, Grabo, or JVR. They along with Kessel are our only four legit top-six forwards, and it isn't smart to fill holes by creating other holes. I think the same argument could be made with Florida and Versteeg.

What the Leafs do have is an abundance of 2nd/3rd line tweeners like Bozak, Kulemin, MacArthur, and Connolly with other guys like Kadri and Frattin knocking at the door, as well as a pretty good group of defense prospects (d-men not named Gardiner). I think if there is a deal to be made here it would have to be based around these types of guys, and if Gillis wants more then Burke will sit tight and head into the season with Reimer and Scrivens, or maybe go after someone like Bernier.

Luongo will definitely give the Leafs a better chance to win, but only if we don't have to dismantle any core pieces in order to get him, and I think/hope Burke understands that.

handyj is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 05:35 AM
  #242
JuniorNelson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: E.Vancouver
Country: Australia-Aboriginal
Posts: 5,165
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by o0Leaf fan0o View Post
What is Gillis asking for anyway?
I hope he is asking for a goalie back, because the Free agents that are left do not appeal.

The list of goalies that have requested a trade is long this year. Two of the top guys in the league and one of the brighter prospects! Add to that an aged legend and the best puck handling goalie of his generation, in Hasek and Turco and it's no wonder Brian Burke doesn't know what to do.

For me, I'd like to aquire Thomas' rights or Bryzgalov for Luongo. Actually I'd rather do a deal with Dallas, but there is no way that will happen. Ever.

I hope that the delay is Gillis is aquiring assets to meet Nashville's demands for Weber.

I am fearful the delay is that there are unstated issues in the top six. Disclosure that the Canucks have an issue would skew the market to an impossible degree. An example, suppose Kesler is going to need the year off. For personal reasons, let's say. If word leaked out other GMs would be able to leverage him with a center. I hope that there is no such issue lurking, but I wonder why there has been no effort to aquire a back-up? Wouldn't it be prudent to be able to demonstrate no need for Luongo, going into negotiations?

JuniorNelson is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 05:42 AM
  #243
The Bored Man
Fire everyone
 
The Bored Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,500
vCash: 500
Bjugstad or Gardiner? Forget about it.

The Bored Man is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:24 AM
  #244
Darylman
Registered User
 
Darylman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
Luongo asked to be traded. On the radio. He's not returning to Vancouver.

Darylman is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:34 AM
  #245
M A K A V E L I*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: van Coevorden
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Luongo asked to be traded. On the radio. He's not returning to Vancouver.
It's not like a suddenly blindsided the Canucks with a trade demand out of the blue. Both sides came to this conclusion a long time ago. He's still getting paid millions to play a game. If he isn't traded before the season starts, he will be returning to Vancouver.

M A K A V E L I* is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:49 AM
  #246
SufferingCatFan
Registered User
 
SufferingCatFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: fort lauderdale
Country: United States
Posts: 1,951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
The Booth trade was supposedly a year in the making.

Hodgson has been an issue for years.

Gillis has a tendancy to take his time with these situations.
Booth is an apt analogy. Panther fans overvalued him greatly on their boards then he was traded for a salary dump. When the trade went down, there was much moaning by Panther fans and much gloating by Nucks fans. Now, a year later, it appears to be a reasonable trade, with 20-20 hindsight, for both teams.

On the other hand, Florida got bent over bad in the Luongo trade and the Nucks in the Ballard trade.

I always liked Luongo and hopes it works out for him.

SufferingCatFan is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:49 AM
  #247
2287
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
I think the Gardiner rumour from Toronto sounds accurate.
From Florida, I'd guess Bjugstad but that's just a shot in the dark. Of course some salary dumps/picks involved.
No chance of Bjugstad going to the Canucks

2287 is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:53 AM
  #248
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Luongo asked to be traded. On the radio. He's not returning to Vancouver.
Did he say when? Oh that's right, that's Gillis's job isn't it?

Bleach Clean is online now  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:53 AM
  #249
Barilkos Ghost
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Barcelona
Country: Spain
Posts: 79
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
It's not like a suddenly blindsided the Canucks with a trade demand out of the blue. Both sides came to this conclusion a long time ago. He's still getting paid millions to play a game. If he isn't traded before the season starts, he will be returning to Vancouver.
Seriously, no team brings a player back into the dressing room for a new season when that player has requested to be moved, for whatever reason. It doesn't happen.

Barilkos Ghost is offline  
Old
07-13-2012, 07:59 AM
  #250
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilkos Ghost View Post
Seriously, no team brings a player back into the dressing room for a new season when that player has requested to be moved, for whatever reason. It doesn't happen.


Rick Nash wanted to be dealt by the deadline, but it didn't happen. Players can whine. They can even sit out. But each of them signed a contract. From then on, it's the GM's job to dictate the handling of his asset.


If the Turris situation didn't clue people into who actually dictates the _time_ of a trade, I'm not sure what will...

Bleach Clean is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.