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Official Predators Off-Season 2012 Thread - Part II

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:55 AM
  #551
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Then why don't managment tell us their side of the story. They feed of us, we have the right to know...
They did. Players violated curfew, got punished. 15 minutes or four hours ... late is late.

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07-13-2012, 08:15 AM
  #552
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I think to have a curfew in a professional sport club is a joke in the first place. It is like my boss at work going to tell me that I need to be in bed by 12. Really???

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07-13-2012, 08:38 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
I think to have a curfew in a professional sport club is a joke in the first place. It is like my boss at work going to tell me that I need to be in bed by 12. Really???
Are you watched and scrutinized by an international audience at your job?
Are you a "star player" in the company you work for?
Are you viewed as a representative of the company you work who is supposed to be an example for the dedication, hardwork and professionalism your employer prides itself on?
Are you paid a million dollars or more by your employer?
Does your performance at work have a direct and immediate impact on the sucess or failure of the company you work for?

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07-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
They did. Players violated curfew, got punished. 15 minutes or four hours ... late is late.
C'mon man, you know there's varying degrees of voilations. You don't give the death penalty for a speeding ticket.

15 minutes late because they got stuck in traffic or were late from dinner while talking hockey is one thing. This is a "you guys are knuckleheads, I want you to run some stadium steps and carry everyone's bag for the next road trip" violation.

Coming back ****-faced from a strip club at 4am when you have to play a playoff game in 12 hours is another. This is suspendable, IMHO.

I freely admit we don't know the whole story, but if what SK says is true - how can you justify suspending them for 2 games? Wouldn't a more lenient punishment have been more appropriate?

DP/Trotz can run their team any way they see fit. But when the results aren't there, then you have to start questioning the methods.

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07-13-2012, 09:55 AM
  #555
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IMO, you can't question the honesty, integrity or passion of DP or Trotz... You just can't if you've ever spent any time around them, with them, or just watching their actions for the past 12 years.

You can certainly question how they coach or who they play or who they trade for...

They didn't do this lightly or without reason. They wanted to win more than we wanted them to win....

bah.......we're certainly bored, aren't we, to go back into this.

I don't question what they did AT ALL

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07-13-2012, 10:14 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
They did. Players violated curfew, got punished. 15 minutes or four hours ... late is late.
Late is late, that is right. 10 miles over or 60 miles over, same punishment? Over is over, right?
What about common sense?


If what SK says is true, then DP/BT just don't have one.

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07-13-2012, 10:29 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Say it was an hour late? Would that be ok if they were discussing team strategy? What if were 30 minutes? Where's the line? The line is where the staff made it and they broke the rule. I could care less if they were discussing team strategy or looking at strippers, they were late the night before a playoff game. Everyone else seemed to make it back on time so why didn't they? We can make excuses for them or the staff for benching them but if every other player is in their room when they're supposed to be, it's a disservice to them to let those two play. Everyone buys into the team concept. Don't care if it's Weber or Big Ern, they all follow the same rules.

And not knowing what the details were, it sounds like there were a lot of other reasons AK and Rads aren't coming back so that was more the tip of the iceberg than anything else.
Like RaiderDoug said, I personally would probably lean towards an incremental punishment scale but I also understand the view of you/Preds management that if you step over the line then that's it and you get punished. It would avoid any uncertainty and everybody knows where they stand. Both approaches have their benefits and drawbacks.

Your second paragraph seems unnecessarily negative and presumptuous though. Your view point is that if we know that they did something (anything, no matter what) wrong, which they did, then they should be punished. And they were. Up to there, it makes sense.

But then you say that we are not aware of the whole details of the situation and from that you extrapolate that there may be other reasons why they aren't coming back and assert that what we do know was merely the tip of an iceberg, implying that they both were causing all manner of trouble for the Preds. Really, you get all that from information you admit you do not have? Is that not a bit like saying "I have no earthly notion what I'm talking about but if you allow me the opportunity to make **** up for a moment then I think we can come to some conclusion here"? If you know you lack details of a situation you can't then turn around and say "it sounds like...." something specific was the case, nor create a scale of the problems you are imagining by comparing the issues we do know about to the tip of an iceberg. You can speculate that 'perhaps' this may have been the case. But it is just as possible that both players made the decision to not sign another contract with the team or that there were no other issues with either player but the team made the choice not to bring them back.

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07-13-2012, 10:29 AM
  #558
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If this is true (not saying it is or isn't) I believe this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Considering reports from various people about how Rads handled himself with younger players, the confrontation between him and 22, I would be surprised that this was the thing that forced Trotz and Poile's hand to administer discipline.

I do, however, want to say that the media member who reported them needs to be fired. Extremely unprofessional and if I was caught doing something like that for the team I cover, I would dismissed without a second thought. Absolutely shameful.

To believe Poile or Trotz at face value, however, is also a bit naive. Anyone remember Trotz status updates on injured players? Or Poile flat out dismissing and lying about the RFA screw up last year (that his son botched)? While they are good men, they are also in the business of protecting themselves and the teams image, even when they mess up.

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07-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Say it was an hour late? Would that be ok if they were discussing team strategy? What if were 30 minutes? Where's the line? The line is where the staff made it and they broke the rule. I could care less if they were discussing team strategy or looking at strippers, they were late the night before a playoff game. Everyone else seemed to make it back on time so why didn't they? We can make excuses for them or the staff for benching them but if every other player is in their room when they're supposed to be, it's a disservice to them to let those two play. Everyone buys into the team concept. Don't care if it's Weber or Big Ern, they all follow the same rules.
If what SK says is true, this is a case of Trotz being penny wise and pound foolish.

Trotz coaching in the playoffs is like Poile negotiating with an All Star. They both go....

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07-13-2012, 11:09 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Here is some news for you!
I new that before, didn't want to comment without proof, because knew that I would be taking apart here:

Sergei Kostitsyn to reporter of "Pressball" of Belarus (biggest sport news-media of Belarus) http://www.pressball.by/news/hockey/110527


"Forward of Nashville Sergei Kostitisyn told us about moment when head coach during PO suspended Andrei Kostitsyn and Alex Radulov for curfew violation and he thinks that decision wasn't fair.

Sergei:
-They weren't drinking, they was late at most 15 minutes. I know what I am talking about, first of all I was staying in the same room with my brother. Second I was at the supper with them, I just left a bit early, (because they wanted to figure some out in between two of them, particularly Andrei was telling Alex to play more pass not to skate around like crazy, more aggressive and to shoot more and don't see him as a competition that Italic is from me, you can take as it is, that what I heard.) They only stayed late in the restaurant because of the practice. Because of practice dinner was at 4, so supper you can't have early then 9. I think that to suspend both for 2 games was club's mistake.

Reporter:
-Yeah, kind off sounds strange:

Sergei:
-it became a problem, when Reporter that was having supper in same restaurant noticed Andrei and Alex. That was a guy from television, the one that work from in-between the benches. It is even more weird, because he came up, talked to them, we all know each other, he saw what they were doing there. But then he still called BT... "


Some for you to talk about




P.S. This is just a part of the interview, I will post the whole thing when it will be available, if you want.
did he talk about the two of them being late for everything? Practices, game skates, airplane travel. Everything. It was the icing ion the cake and SK is flat out lying there. They were more than 15 minutes late and the team had Erat babysitting SK to make sure he did nothing stupid. If you believe him, I bet you are sitting by waiting for suter to give us last offer too.

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07-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
did he talk about the two of them being late for everything? Practices, game skates, airplane travel. Everything. It was the icing ion the cake and SK is flat out lying there. They were more than 15 minutes late and the team had Erat babysitting SK to make sure he did nothing stupid. If you believe him, I bet you are sitting by waiting for suter to give us last offer too.
Do you have a proof that they where more then 15 min late? And where does it say that Erat where babysitting SK?


That occasion might influence on Suter ditching us too... 15 min and I get a shaft? **** that!!! Hello Minnesota.


And you dont need to get offensive, or defensive, what ever it is for you...


Last edited by tserberis*: 07-13-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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07-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #562
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I had thought Erat had said SK was rooming with him and was with him when AK and AR were out.

So is SK or Erat lying here?

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07-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
C'mon man, you know there's varying degrees of voilations. You don't give the death penalty for a speeding ticket.

15 minutes late because they got stuck in traffic or were late from dinner while talking hockey is one thing. This is a "you guys are knuckleheads, I want you to run some stadium steps and carry everyone's bag for the next road trip" violation.

Coming back ****-faced from a strip club at 4am when you have to play a playoff game in 12 hours is another. This is suspendable, IMHO.

I freely admit we don't know the whole story, but if what SK says is true - how can you justify suspending them for 2 games? Wouldn't a more lenient punishment have been more appropriate?

DP/Trotz can run their team any way they see fit. But when the results aren't there, then you have to start questioning the methods.
You're right ... no death penalty for speeding tickets ... just fines , and points on a person's license. The options were sit AK and Rads for a game (which the team won) or fine them $250 dollars each. Now, which is actually a punishment to either of those people. The suspensions were one game, then they were healthy scratched for the second after the team won without them ... the old don't mess up something that works concept.

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07-13-2012, 11:53 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I had thought Erat had said SK was rooming with him and was with him when AK and AR were out.

So is SK or Erat lying here?
Show me where Erat said that he was staying with SK?

I think you got something wrong.

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07-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
C'mon man, you know there's varying degrees of voilations. You don't give the death penalty for a speeding ticket.

15 minutes late because they got stuck in traffic or were late from dinner while talking hockey is one thing. This is a "you guys are knuckleheads, I want you to run some stadium steps and carry everyone's bag for the next road trip" violation.

Coming back ****-faced from a strip club at 4am when you have to play a playoff game in 12 hours is another. This is suspendable, IMHO.

I freely admit we don't know the whole story, but if what SK says is true - how can you justify suspending them for 2 games? Wouldn't a more lenient punishment have been more appropriate?

DP/Trotz can run their team any way they see fit. But when the results aren't there, then you have to start questioning the methods.
I think we're missing the whole story. If the 15 minutes late was the first time, I'm confident they wouldn't have been suspended. What we don't know is whether there were earlier infractions and those guys were told (progressive discipline) the next infraction results in a suspension instead of a talking to or a bag skate. This could have been the last in a long series of infractions. None of which could have been enough by itself to warrant a suspension but in total the 15 minutes was the last straw.

The real point is "we don't know the whole story".

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07-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Show me where Erat said that he was staying with SK?

I think you got something wrong.
I've looked and can't find it but I know that I've heard that Erat and SK were staying in the same room.

Also, when have the Predators ever made 3 players share a room? I thnk you've got something wrong.

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07-13-2012, 12:25 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I've looked and can't find it but I know that I've heard that Erat and SK were staying in the same room.

Also, when have the Predators ever made 3 players share a room? I thnk you've got something wrong.
Show me where?

I know for the fact that SK and AK was staying in the same room during PO

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07-13-2012, 12:41 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Show me where?

I know for the fact that SK and AK was staying in the same room during PO
prove it...

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07-13-2012, 12:41 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I've looked and can't find it but I know that I've heard that Erat and SK were staying in the same room.

Also, when have the Predators ever made 3 players share a room? I thnk you've got something wrong.
3 players can't stay in the same room under the cba.


and I remember also reading that erat and sk were in the same room

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07-13-2012, 12:49 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
3 players can't stay in the same room under the cba.


and I remember also reading that erat and sk were in the same room
Show me where you were reading it?

Erat Interview to russian newspaper?

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07-13-2012, 12:53 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
prove it...
At least I have some proof such as an interview.

What do you have, your word?


I heard a lot of **** too...

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07-13-2012, 01:10 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Show me where?

I know for the fact that SK and AK was staying in the same room during PO
I remember that Erat interview too and I'm pretty sure he said he was rooming with Sergei. I think it was the big interview he did maybe two/three weeks after the Preds were knocked out. He gave his views on a range of topics including the suspension of AK and Rads. I'm not sure if that'll still be in my browser history but I'll see if I can find it.

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07-13-2012, 01:11 PM
  #573
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There is no bigger Trotz / DP fan than me. I know Barry personally and have spent enough time around him to know he's honorable.

That said, ASSUMING THEY WERE ONLY 15 MINUTES LATE AND THIS WASN'T A HUGE TREND, Preds Mgmt overreacted and distracted the team at a critical time. I'm reading "The Last Boy" right now. Great bio of Mickey Mantle. The Mick broke rules more often than he struck out. Players have been wild since the beginning of sports. It seems right to punish, but in big money pro sports, its not that simple. Think of what would have happened if they were never suspended, and we won the series because they played well. Our franchise would be in a different place right now. We'll never know if that was possible because we electively fielded an inferior team. This is not The Boy Scouts or Church. If SK is right, a simple "talking to" would have worked. They didn't "let the team down" by being 15 minutes late. What happened surrounding the suspension let the team down. Instead of managing the situation in the best overall manner for the franchise, DP and Trotz seemingly laid down a technical rule violation and then were "forced" to act. It was self-inflicted and could have been handled more discretely without selling out our values.

To be fair, I asked Barry the night he suspended them if he knew of the rule violation prior to Game 2. He said no, and if he did, "there is no way they'd have seen Game 2". He was stern. Certainly left me with the impression these guys did a lot worse then 15 minutes and no drinking.

Our beyond reproach honor code =
1) You violate a rule, regardless of circumstance, severity or timing, you're suspended, and
2) If you indicate to me it's your intention to sign a long term contract, I'll trust you right to the bitter end

has cost us. I'm proud that we have such boy scouts running our ship but I can't help but wonder if we haven't taken it to an extreme.

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07-13-2012, 01:15 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
I remember that Erat interview too and I'm pretty sure he said he was rooming with Sergei. It was the big interview he did maybe two/three weeks after the Preds were knocked out. He gave his views on a range of topics including the suspension of AK and Rads. I'm not sure if that'll still be in my browser history but I'll see if I can find it.
I just read it. Nothing about rooming with SK

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07-13-2012, 03:17 PM
  #575
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Well, it doesn't say anything about roommates ... but take a look at the second bulletpoint down in the "Matty's Short Shifts" section. That last line sure is interesting. Where he got that from I don't know.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...801/story.html

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