HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade for Iginla?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-12-2012, 10:58 PM
  #26
CTU2fan
Registered User
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
I don't think the Flyers will add any significant forwards via trade unless it's Bobby Ryan and his price will probably be too high. I do see the Flyers trying to add a FA forward like Doan or maybe Semin. If any big trades not involving Ryan I would guess it would be for a defenseman. They need at least another 3rd pairing guy but ideally would add a 2nd pairing guy with a right handed shot. I could see Read and maybe some prospects or picks going the other way although that won't land you all that much.
I don't mean to single you out with this, but I see Read's name tossed around in proposals like he's nothing, and statements about how we could offer Read+ for X but "obviously team Y would and should want more than Read" and I just don't get it. Matt Read in one season has proven he's a 20+ goal scorer with speed. That has value. Not to mention he is dirt cheap. Unless you've got reason to believe that Read is a complete fluke and won't surpass say 15 goals ever again then you're crazy if you trade a guy who will produce what he does, at what he's making, for the "privilege" of paying an Iginla or even a Nash or Ryan for say the extra ~10 goals they'll give you. Say you make a deal for Nash, everybody draws the line at Couts and Schenn, so say it's Read and 2 1sts (which Columbus probably rejects)...say you get 40 goals from Nash, are you really ok with paying 2 1sts plus an extra $7M a year for those extra 15 goals?

I'm not sure what the deal is with under-valuing Matt Read. Maybe because he's an undrafted FA, or because he got a late start, or because of his perceived low ceiling...but if you're the Flyers you're not interested in wht his potential is or what kind of prospect he is; he's entering his prime and helping you right now. If this is as good as he gets you've already come out way ahead.

CTU2fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 11:25 PM
  #27
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 7,601
vCash: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
I don't mean to single you out with this, but I see Read's name tossed around in proposals like he's nothing, and statements about how we could offer Read+ for X but "obviously team Y would and should want more than Read" and I just don't get it. Matt Read in one season has proven he's a 20+ goal scorer with speed. That has value. Not to mention he is dirt cheap. Unless you've got reason to believe that Read is a complete fluke and won't surpass say 15 goals ever again then you're crazy if you trade a guy who will produce what he does, at what he's making, for the "privilege" of paying an Iginla or even a Nash or Ryan for say the extra ~10 goals they'll give you. Say you make a deal for Nash, everybody draws the line at Couts and Schenn, so say it's Read and 2 1sts (which Columbus probably rejects)...say you get 40 goals from Nash, are you really ok with paying 2 1sts plus an extra $7M a year for those extra 15 goals?

I'm not sure what the deal is with under-valuing Matt Read. Maybe because he's an undrafted FA, or because he got a late start, or because of his perceived low ceiling...but if you're the Flyers you're not interested in wht his potential is or what kind of prospect he is; he's entering his prime and helping you right now. If this is as good as he gets you've already come out way ahead.
He was a 25 year old rookie, which diminishes his value, and he was a rookie FA signing out of college, which dimishes his value to the fans. ie: He wasn't a top 5 draft pick or traded for the faces of the franchise = he's movable. I don't disagree. I don't think anyone is undervaluing Matt Read. I think we have his value right where it should be for our young forwards:

Giroux > Couturier > Schenn > Voracek > Simmonds > Read > Laughton > Cousins (IMO)

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 11:32 PM
  #28
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
I don't mean to single you out with this, but I see Read's name tossed around in proposals like he's nothing, and statements about how we could offer Read+ for X but "obviously team Y would and should want more than Read" and I just don't get it. Matt Read in one season has proven he's a 20+ goal scorer with speed. That has value. Not to mention he is dirt cheap. Unless you've got reason to believe that Read is a complete fluke and won't surpass say 15 goals ever again then you're crazy if you trade a guy who will produce what he does, at what he's making, for the "privilege" of paying an Iginla or even a Nash or Ryan for say the extra ~10 goals they'll give you. Say you make a deal for Nash, everybody draws the line at Couts and Schenn, so say it's Read and 2 1sts (which Columbus probably rejects)...say you get 40 goals from Nash, are you really ok with paying 2 1sts plus an extra $7M a year for those extra 15 goals?

I'm not sure what the deal is with under-valuing Matt Read. Maybe because he's an undrafted FA, or because he got a late start, or because of his perceived low ceiling...but if you're the Flyers you're not interested in wht his potential is or what kind of prospect he is; he's entering his prime and helping you right now. If this is as good as he gets you've already come out way ahead.
I have to agree with a lot of this. I have said many times that I would be willing to trade Read, Laughton, and Cousins for Ryan. That is a pretty damn good return. In two years that could likely be a complete shutdown third line or better. I would love to keep all of those assets to see how they turn out, but if it meant getting a first line winger for Giroux I would do it.

As for the Ducks, I think it very good value for them it just doesn't fill that 2C role that they need to fill. But I don't think there are many teams out there that are willing to trade #2 centers if they do have them. So if they do indeed need/want to trade Ryan that deal would be really good value.

Read is a very solid player from what I have seen. Can play any forward position. Can play first unit PK, can play the power play and is on a really nice deal for two more years. He is not a center piece for any team but he is a really nice complementary player.

FLYERSFAN18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 11:42 PM
  #29
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 500
How big of a difference is there between these two players?

GP G A P
79 24 23 47
78 18 31 49

Don't forget that one player got a lot of time on the First Power Play unit while the other played some on the second unit and played on the PK. One was also a rookie while the other was in his 4th season. Doesn't seem to be that much of a difference between the two.

FLYERSFAN18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 10:39 AM
  #30
FlyersFanz
aut viam inveniam au
 
FlyersFanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BlkVanOutsideUrHouse
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,021
vCash: 500
Trade proposal....Iginla for a bag of pucks and Shelley. lol

FlyersFanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 12:12 PM
  #31
CTU2fan
Registered User
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
He was a 25 year old rookie, which diminishes his value, and he was a rookie FA signing out of college, which dimishes his value to the fans. ie: He wasn't a top 5 draft pick or traded for the faces of the franchise = he's movable. I don't disagree. I don't think anyone is undervaluing Matt Read. I think we have his value right where it should be for our young forwards:

Giroux > Couturier > Schenn > Voracek > Simmonds > Read > Laughton > Cousins (IMO)
All of that is true. But it's to a great extent perception vs. what he is in reality. There's going to be a little bit of bias at work when discussing a deal with another GM and offering Read. They're going to value him to some degree as the guy they either passed on or never heard of before he joined the Flyers, and value him that way. I'd guess the Flyers would lose any deal that involved Read; he won't be the centerpiece of a deal for any of the top talent rumored to be available (Nash, Ryan, Yandle, Weber, etc) and adding him as a secondary piece to get one of those guys is an overpay. He's much more valuable to the Flyers than anything they could get in return, because of his perception and because of his cap hit.

CTU2fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 03:21 PM
  #32
facts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by laundryman View Post
If the Flames move Iginla I'd think they'd be entering rebuilding mode so I'd expect them to ask for Couturier or Schenn to go the other way
I sure they would and feaster would be getting a lot of dial tone. Iginla does not have the high end value anymore.

facts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 03:51 PM
  #33
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,609
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
He was a 25 year old rookie, which diminishes his value, and he was a rookie FA signing out of college, which dimishes his value to the fans. ie: He wasn't a top 5 draft pick or traded for the faces of the franchise = he's movable. I don't disagree. I don't think anyone is undervaluing Matt Read. I think we have his value right where it should be for our young forwards:

Giroux > Couturier > Schenn > Voracek > Simmonds > Read > Laughton > Cousins (IMO)
Spot on.

On the other post:
You don't pay Nash for 15 extra goals, you pay him to win games in the playoffs.
We have space, our team would be better on the ice, not on paper.

As for acquiring him, I'm not willing to move anyone over simmonds

tuckrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 10:08 PM
  #34
Larry44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Trade proposal....Iginla for a bag of pucks and Shelley. lol
How many pucks in the bag?

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 10:11 PM
  #35
Larry44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
He was a 25 year old rookie, which diminishes his value, and he was a rookie FA signing out of college, which dimishes his value to the fans. ie: He wasn't a top 5 draft pick or traded for the faces of the franchise = he's movable. I don't disagree. I don't think anyone is undervaluing Matt Read. I think we have his value right where it should be for our young forwards:

Giroux > Couturier > Schenn > Voracek > Simmonds > Read > Laughton > Cousins (IMO)
Exactly. Read is a good little player, very versatile, skilled and fast. But IF the premise is that we need to put a forward with, for example, Mez, in a deal for Nash or Ryan, Read would go before the others in that order. That's all. He's 6th in that list, which puts him on the 3rd line and therefore more expendable than some others.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 10:15 PM
  #36
Flyersfan1493
Formerly Go For It
 
Flyersfan1493's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Spot on.

On the other post:
You don't pay Nash for 15 extra goals, you pay him to win games in the playoffs.
We have space, our team would be better on the ice, not on paper.

As for acquiring him, I'm not willing to move anyone over simmonds
...which he does by scoring goals?

Flyersfan1493 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2012, 10:40 PM
  #37
bp spec
Registered User
 
bp spec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,984
vCash: 500
Nah.

bp spec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 05:56 AM
  #38
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
He was a 25 year old rookie, which diminishes his value, and he was a rookie FA signing out of college, which dimishes his value to the fans. ie: He wasn't a top 5 draft pick or traded for the faces of the franchise = he's movable. I don't disagree. I don't think anyone is undervaluing Matt Read. I think we have his value right where it should be for our young forwards:

Giroux > Couturier > Schenn > Voracek > Simmonds > Read > Laughton > Cousins (IMO)
For me the trouble with trading Read would be that I agree that he probably hasn't that much trade value, since GM's probably have some legitimate concerns that he's a one-year-wonder, but at the same time I'd say that his value to the Flyers is bigger than Voracek or Simmonds considering his great cap hit and the way he can play anywhere in the lineup as well as on both special teams.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.