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The Nash Thread IV (All things Nash here)

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Old
07-13-2012, 01:23 PM
  #976
Nordique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Can we stop with the "list" nonsense? It doesn't effect Howson's ability to negotiate with other teams (as witnessed by the fact Howson had talks with teams like Ottawa and Carolina in the first place) and under the CBA even a team on the list requires Howson to go back to Nash for final approval. This isn't a modified NMC where the list is a built in function, so the list is pretty much irrelevant. If Howson wants to trade Nash, he finds a destination, makes a deal and then goes to Nash. If Nash doesn't approve, Howson immediately leaks Nash's rejection to the press to pressure Nash to expand his list. This hasn't happened. So, the lack of a deal has nothing to do with the list.

Of course Howson is fielding all offers...but you are overlooking the teams that aren't bothering to make offers because of the "list".

You don't think Howson would be getting more offers if the list was dropped?

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07-13-2012, 01:24 PM
  #977
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Has Nash been traded and/or been made captain yet?

What did I miss?

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07-13-2012, 01:28 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Question for you.

Without a doubt, Columbus was burned by the league's anti-evading stance that existed until mid-July of 2009. So were several other teams, who re-signed their own players to contracts at massive cap hits because of the threat/fear of unknown punishment for cap evasion.

If a new CBA adjusts the way that a player's cap hit is calculated, and it serves to completely shift the market to put Nash in company with many others rather than being in this rare air, wouldn't it make more sense to wait? If teams are concerned about disproportionate production relative to cap hit, a simple re-write of the formula could dramatically impact his value without anything else changing.

This (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=17) is what I brought up in a CBA-related thread. Something like this isn't outside the realm of possibility. I also didn't bother calculating for everyone, but the examples used demonstrate how much the cap scale could change with a changing of the wording.

To add other contracts in:
Suter and Parise - $7,538,462 to $10.333 mil
Lecavalier - $7,727,273 to $10 mil
Ovechkin - $9,538,462 to $10 mil
Chara - $6,916,667 to $7,833,333
I don't think there is a chance in H*E*Double Hockey Sticks that the new CBA punishes the teams that signed the deals you just mentioned. NONE. You think the league is going to require the Wild to gut their team because of the Parise and Suter's deals? Not a chance.

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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Who's to say that a team hasn't come along and offered Scott Howson a deal he's approved, only to have Nash tell him he doesn't want to play there?

The list is absolutely relevant. If the six teams on the list know they don't have any competition beyond the other five teams, why come out with an offer that goes above and beyond any of them? What if a team like the Islanders came along and offered us the farm for Rick just to play him alongside John Tavares? Does "the list" not matter then?


Are you arguing that Scott Howson is the dumbest person in the world?

If Nash rejected a trade, you'd hear about it because it would benefit Howson to leak that information. If he didn't, he'd be a total moron.

Until Rick is actually asked and rejects, the list means nothing. It is a fiction.

And, as far as the Islanders go, do you mean to tell me you think the man negotiated an NMC so that he could waive to go to one of the worst teams in the league AFTER they have further gutted their team to get him? At that point, your issue isn't the list, it is that he has a no trade clause in the first place.

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Old
07-13-2012, 01:33 PM
  #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Of course Howson is fielding all offers...but you are overlooking the teams that aren't bothering to make offers because of the "list".

You don't think Howson would be getting more offers if the list was dropped?
No, I don't. Not for a second.

No one who wants to kick the tires is holding off on doing it because of Nash's list. Beyond that, there isn't the great market for Nash some of you seem to think. There are other teams like the Jackets that aren't contenders for whom it makes no sense to add Nash because the benefit doesn't outweigh the costs. There are other teams so close to the cap that Nash doesn't fit (that includes a team like Boston that IS on the list). And then there are teams that simply don't have the assets we'd seek in return.

I've looked at the teams not on Nash's list. There aren't any great fits out there. Take a look for yourself and come up with a plausible trade with one of the teams not on the list.

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07-13-2012, 02:24 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post


Are you arguing that Scott Howson is the dumbest person in the world?

If Nash rejected a trade, you'd hear about it because it would benefit Howson to leak that information. If he didn't, he'd be a total moron.

Until Rick is actually asked and rejects, the list means nothing. It is a fiction.

And, as far as the Islanders go, do you mean to tell me you think the man negotiated an NMC so that he could waive to go to one of the worst teams in the league AFTER they have further gutted their team to get him? At that point, your issue isn't the list, it is that he has a no trade clause in the first place.
So, let me get this straight.

You think it would put us in a beneficial position to have our GM publicly state that our player is being a primadonna and refusing to go to certain teams on any terms? How many other GMs do you recall seeing do this? Do you have any specific examples?

Do you have proof that Rick Nash hasn't nixed any potential deals?

And, as far as the Islanders - are you really going to use a soft example as a method of breaking down my theory? This could be the same with any other team in the league (Ottawa maybe?). It was just an example, sorry if it was too confusing.

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Old
07-13-2012, 04:02 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
The other thread was closed because 1) the poll results were clear and 2) it was a redundant discussion with this one. Sam explained it in the final post.
Why not just make it all one thread and title it "B^tch, B^tch, B^tch"

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Old
07-13-2012, 04:06 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Why not just make it all one thread and title it "B^tch, B^tch, B^tch"
Cuz someone would B^tch about that? Or at least point out why the title was wrong.

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Old
07-13-2012, 04:38 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Jacks Johnson View Post
I was under the impression that Ottawa was hot in heavy for Nash, but Nash wouldnt consider Ottawa. Thought I read of Ottawa's gm making this known in the paper.
I dont think this is accurate. It has been said repeatedly that no deal has been taken to Nash and none has been rejected. I think what Murray said was that they were not going to persue the deal further because the Sens were not on his list, anyway. That's my understanding. I see it as a PR excuse for not getting a piece they may have wanted.

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07-13-2012, 04:53 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I dont think this is accurate. It has been said repeatedly that no deal has been taken to Nash and none has been rejected. I think what Murray said was that they were not going to persue the deal further because the Sens were not on his list, anyway. That's my understanding. I see it as a PR excuse for not getting a piece they may have wanted.
Sens were never on his list.

Early on in the Nash trade talks our asst GM said that the Sens weren't discouraged by not being on Nash's list because Nash never directly said he wouldn't come to Ottawa so there was no harm in trying. I believe he said something like "Well have you heard Nash say he wouldn't come to Ottawa".

Now that dealings are supposedly dead, something official may have come from Nash or his agent saying he is not waiving his NMC for Ottawa ever so we pulled out.

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Old
07-13-2012, 04:55 PM
  #985
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Cuz someone would B^tch about that? Or at least point out why the title was wrong.
That thread title still exists. No complaining.

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Old
07-13-2012, 05:02 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Early on in the Nash trade talks our asst GM said that the Sens weren't discouraged by not being on Nash's list because Nash never directly said he wouldn't come to Ottawa so there was no harm in trying. I believe he said something like "Well have you heard Nash say he wouldn't come to Ottawa".

Now that dealings are supposedly dead, something official may have come from Nash or his agent saying he is not waiving his NMC for Ottawa ever so we pulled out.
I agree with your first paragraph, but there have been several statements from our GM after the Sens deal failed that no trade proposal has been rejected by Nash. There could be many reasons why the trade didn't come together without it having been taken to Nash for approval.

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Old
07-13-2012, 05:03 PM
  #987
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So I had a long talk today with some of the doctors I work with. All of us are season ticket holders. One of them went golfing with some of the players recently and another just yesterday saw and talked briefly to Nash's agent Resnick while out to dinner. While we don't really know anything, here is what we agreed upon that makes the most sense. Take it for what it's worth (a little bit of info with a lot of speculation):

Nash was reluctant to be traded around the trade deadline.

There were rumblings about avoiding a rebuild leading up to last year and Nash had made it known that he does not think he could stand a full-on rebuild given the point he was at in his career. This was partly addressed through a number of moves such as acquiring Jeff Carter. Then the entire thing went south and the notion of moving him came up.

Nash made it clear that he wanted to be moved IF Columbus were going to undergo a full rebuild that would take years to complete. Additionally, if he were to be moved from Columbus, he would only play for a few select teams. He presented it as: either I'm in Columbus or I'm with these teams (which we now know are San Jose, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York, and Boston). This is different from many trade demand scenarios where he isn't willing to go to just any competitive team. He has already turned down Ottawa and Carolina as well as not having teams on his list like Vancouver, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Chicago, Nashville, Washington, and New Jersey.

Then Howson, right after the trade deadline, came out and said the whole thing was a demand made by Nash. Really, Nash's demand was that if the team were to not be competitive for the next coming years, he would only accept being moved to those places. This pissed off Nash. It's also why he is refusing to expand his list. He doesn't want out of Columbus (in fact he is keeping his house here in Upper Arlington). If it benefits the team as well as his own career, he will accept a trade to the places on his list.

Now we'll see what happens. Nash may have cooled off (according to some of his teammates he has) but he remains pretty aloof. I think that nothing will happen until he goes public and makes his stance known. His stance will largely depend on how he feels he was treated in these past few months and how he feels the team is faring. If it does not look like a rebuild is coming (Howson has said "retool") and if he puts Howson's public statement behind him, then it is not unlikely that he will return and actually be the captain. It seems like his teammates don't hold his request against him but is that a good thing? Should they? What about Jack Johnson and Vinny Prospal, the "new" leadership group?

The players around at the time were pretty ambivalent about the way Filatov and Carter both acted recently. Is it a sign of a lack of heart or are they just being professional?

Really the "rebuild" in Columbus doesn't begin until Nash gets moved. From what I've heard, he wants to be here on a competitive team. If that can't happen, he will only accept going to those teams on the list he's provided.


Last edited by Crede777: 07-13-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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Old
07-13-2012, 05:22 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
He presented it as: either I'm in Columbus or I'm with these teams (which we now know are San Jose, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York, and Boston). This is different from many trade demand scenarios where he isn't willing to go to just any competitive team. He has already turned down Ottawa and Carolina as well as not having teams on his list like Vancouver, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Chicago, Nashville, Washington, and New Jersey.
Alright then, you can't trade Rick Nash for a couple prospects and a pick. So if he is going to be part of this team, move forward.

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Old
07-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
SHe has already turned down Ottawa and Carolina
News to me.

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07-13-2012, 05:57 PM
  #990
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News to me.
Funny, I know your usually the all knowing, so this certainly can't be true )

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07-13-2012, 06:05 PM
  #991
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Funny, I know your usually the all knowing, so this certainly can't be true )
I know the price was too high for Carolina (or I'm 95% sure that was what was reported). I know Ottawa took themselves out of the running because they weren't on Nash's list.

What I haven't seen anywhere was that Nash was asked, at any time, to waive his NTC.

If you are someone else has that, please provide a link. Thanks.

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07-13-2012, 06:17 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I know the price was too high for Carolina (or I'm 95% sure that was what was reported). I know Ottawa took themselves out of the running because they weren't on Nash's list.

What I haven't seen anywhere was that Nash was asked, at any time, to waive his NTC.

If you are someone else has that, please provide a link. Thanks.
This is pretty much bang on. nobody anywhere has reported that Nash had been traded until he nixed the deal with his NMC.

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07-13-2012, 06:29 PM
  #993
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So, let me get this straight.

You think it would put us in a beneficial position to have our GM publicly state that our player is being a primadonna and refusing to go to certain teams on any terms? How many other GMs do you recall seeing do this? Do you have any specific examples?

Do you have proof that Rick Nash hasn't nixed any potential deals?

And, as far as the Islanders - are you really going to use a soft example as a method of breaking down my theory? This could be the same with any other team in the league (Ottawa maybe?). It was just an example, sorry if it was too confusing.
He already has stated Nash was a prima donna when he held the press conference. And I recall exactly ZERO GM's who have ever held a press conference to be the one to announce that their player demanded a trade.

As far as leaking rejections, that happens all the time. Do you think it was an accident that the information leaked when Dany Heatley refused to go to the Oilers, as just one example? The last resort of a desperate GM is to make the player uncomfortable so they waive their NTC.

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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Sens were never on his list.

Early on in the Nash trade talks our asst GM said that the Sens weren't discouraged by not being on Nash's list because Nash never directly said he wouldn't come to Ottawa so there was no harm in trying. I believe he said something like "Well have you heard Nash say he wouldn't come to Ottawa".

Now that dealings are supposedly dead, something official may have come from Nash or his agent saying he is not waiving his NMC for Ottawa ever so we pulled out.
Doubt it. Howson would be waiving the bloody shirt.

That doesn't even touch on the fact that the Jackets got the best asset Ottawa was offering at a much lower price.

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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Now we'll see what happens. Nash may have cooled off (according to some of his teammates he has) but he remains pretty aloof. I think that nothing will happen until he goes public and makes his stance known. His stance will largely depend on how he feels he was treated in these past few months and how he feels the team is faring. If it does not look like a rebuild is coming (Howson has said "retool") and if he puts Howson's public statement behind him, then it is not unlikely that he will return and actually be the captain. It seems like his teammates don't hold his request against him but is that a good thing? Should they? What about Jack Johnson and Vinny Prospal, the "new" leadership group?

The players around at the time were pretty ambivalent about the way Filatov and Carter both acted recently. Is it a sign of a lack of heart or are they just being professional?

Really the "rebuild" in Columbus doesn't begin until Nash gets moved. From what I've heard, he wants to be here on a competitive team. If that can't happen, he will only accept going to those teams on the list he's provided.
If I were Nash, I'd be more ready to move on than when the summer started. The team hasn't committed to being competitive this year. Another wasted year of his prime.

Meanwhile, as you point out, it is hard to rebuild with Nash in the room for a number of reasons.

This off-season is not putting this team on the right path to win in the future, with or without Rick Nash.

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Old
07-13-2012, 06:47 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
He already has stated Nash was a prima donna when he held the press conference. And I recall exactly ZERO GM's who have ever held a press conference to be the one to announce that their player demanded a trade.

As far as leaking rejections, that happens all the time. Do you think it was an accident that the information leaked when Dany Heatley refused to go to the Oilers, as just one example? The last resort of a desperate GM is to make the player uncomfortable so they waive their NTC.



Doubt it. Howson would be waiving the bloody shirt.

That doesn't even touch on the fact that the Jackets got the best asset Ottawa was offering at a much lower price.



If I were Nash, I'd be more ready to move on than when the summer started. The team hasn't committed to being competitive this year. Another wasted year of his prime.

Meanwhile, as you point out, it is hard to rebuild with Nash in the room for a number of reasons.

This off-season is not putting this team on the right path to win in the future, with or without Rick Nash.
Since you mentioned heatley, anyone read this article ?

http://mobile.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/...s-blue-jackets

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:01 PM
  #995
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Since you mentioned heatley, anyone read this article ?

http://mobile.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/...s-blue-jackets
Kind of generous to call that an "article." More holes than Swiss cheese.

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:09 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
If I were Nash, I'd be more ready to move on than when the summer started. The team hasn't committed to being competitive this year. Another wasted year of his prime.

Meanwhile, as you point out, it is hard to rebuild with Nash in the room for a number of reasons.

This off-season is not putting this team on the right path to win in the future, with or without Rick Nash.
I agree. It's an odd situation where the team hasn't committed to being competitive, but also hasn't sought out more picks/prospects. Just kind of staying the course.

Also, many believed that the off-season would not put the team on the right path because of one simple fact - Howson and Priest are still in charge.

As for Nash not agreeing to go to Ottawa, I phrased that poorly. I'm not saying Howson agreed to the deal and then sought approval from Nash. I'm saying Nash refused to add Ottawa to his list and despite making multiple attempts the Ottawa GM ultimately decided to move on.

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07-13-2012, 08:19 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I'm saying Nash refused to add Ottawa to his list and despite making multiple attempts the Ottawa GM ultimately decided to move on.
Can you please provide the link in which it was reported that Nash refused to add Ottawa to his list? Doesn't make a lot of sense for Howson to ask him to add them to his list unless it was to waiver his NTC.

I am not sure Nash has been approached for anything to this point.

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07-13-2012, 08:25 PM
  #998
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07-13-2012, 08:45 PM
  #999
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Also, many believed that the off-season would not put the team on the right path because of one simple fact - Howson and Priest are still in charge.
Amen to that!

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07-13-2012, 08:46 PM
  #1000
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Time for a new one.

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