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Your Opinion of Ray Shero

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:05 PM
  #51
Ziggyjoe21
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He inherited a pretty awesome core of young players, 3 of which are elite superstars in the league. One can say that "anyone" can succeed with such a roster. However, where his impact can be seen is that he locked up EVERY core player long term. Not a single Pens player can complain about any contract he ever gave out. He also brought in other players to put the team over the top, such as Guerin, Gill, Vokoun, and Neal.

Player wise, this team is top notch. Unfortunately, they have severely underachieved past 3 playoffs.

Don't know how to rate his drafting (is he even responsible for drafting?). Players usually need 4-5 years to develop, and this is only his 6th year here. For now, his drafting is pretty bad outside of Staal. However, Morrow, Harrington, Despres, and Pouliot seem to be great prospects.

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07-13-2012, 07:08 PM
  #52
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Anyone catch Reirdon's interview today?

He talked highly of the defenseman and they want to be known as "Defense U"

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...onsole?catid=1

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07-13-2012, 07:10 PM
  #53
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8.7/10

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07-13-2012, 07:11 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superstar1797 View Post
Horrible with player contracts (Defense)
ex. Martin, Michalek, Whitney - all grossly overpaid
So, what was the alternative with Whitney? I'm just curious as to what people would've had Shero do.

Offensive defensemen straight-up get paid. Shero did, then dealt him to get a crucial piece to our Cup win.

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07-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by superstar1797 View Post

Horrible with player contracts (Defense)
ex. Martin, Michalek, Whitney - all grossly overpaid
Letang's contract is highway robbery

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07-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #56
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Overall: Great GM

Awful at signing players, really, really good at trades. Jury is still out on drafting, but I'd give him and his scouting staff a pretty low grade. Aside from Staal, who was a top-3 pick and sure bet, only Despres and Jeffrey have sniffed the NHL. Some others are very, very promising, but they're still a few years away.

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07-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
He inherited a pretty awesome core of young players, 3 of which are elite superstars in the league. One can say that "anyone" can succeed with such a roster. However, where his impact can be seen is that he locked up EVERY core player long term. Not a single Pens player can complain about any contract he ever gave out. He also brought in other players to put the team over the top, such as Guerin, Gill, Vokoun, and Neal.

Player wise, this team is top notch. Unfortunately, they have severely underachieved past 3 playoffs.


Don't know how to rate his drafting (is he even responsible for drafting?). Players usually need 4-5 years to develop, and this is only his 6th year here. For now, his drafting is pretty bad outside of Staal. However, Morrow, Harrington, Despres, and Pouliot seem to be great prospects.
Two of the last three, anyway. I don't think anyone expected a team with Letestu as their 2nd line center to make it past the 1st round. The fact that they made it to 7 games was an overachievement, really.

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07-13-2012, 07:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I think he might be the most overrated GM in the entire league and there seems to be a disturbing trend amongst many that want to almost worship him like a god. I don't like the style of team he wants to build, I don't like his style of players he has drafted. There has been enough of a time that has passed where you can rationally evaluate his drafts and he has produced a pretty dismal record in that regard as far as getting solid prospects with top 6 or top pairing ability. He gets a ton of credit for a cup winning team that was based off of the core group of players he inherited. We have now gone how many seasons since he has taken over and the very same problem exists in the farm still, there is no quality forward depth in the farm. Draft after draft this area is neglected and it leads us to be spurned by people like Parise when we absolutely NEED them since we have no internal solutions. We couldve gotten the highest rated forward on the board at the draft this year but instead we reach for another kind of Dman we already have tons of. I'd like for more people to seriously question him and not just blindly believe he craps gold.
That's strange, cause I could swore the pens recent playoff loses we're I'd to defense, an not a lack of offense.

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07-13-2012, 07:18 PM
  #59
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It's tough to evaluate Shero as a GM... because he was essentially gifted the two best players in the world (Malkin, Sid), a premier offensive D-man in Gonchar, a future top 10 d-man in Letang, a top 10 goalie in Fleury, and a ton of other important pieces (Malone, Scuderi, Goligoski, Whitney, etc).

Not to take anything away, but if that isn't a perfect situation to step into then I don't know what is. I know a lot of people in Pittsburgh bow at the alter of Shero, but any rational person knows that the roster you inherit is obviously going to be a very important predictor as your success as a GM.

His signings so far have left a lot to be desired - considering the 2 biggest moves that have his fingerprints all over it were Michalek/Martin... yeah I don't really think he did too well on either of those moves. They were a BIG reason why we underachieved so much the past few years. He essentially re-tooled our defense to be worse in the playoffs than it's ever been.

I'm not a big fan of his fixation on grinders either - there comes a point when it becomes redundant to have so many bottom sixers. It seems like Shero is extremely hesitant to take a shot on ANYONE with skill. A few offseasons ago I was clamoring for him to make a move on Teddy Purcell and nothing ever materialized. You look at him today and he's a solid top 6 guy for Tampa and they gave up absolutely nothing to acquire him.

As far as his ability to re-sign players? I really don't buy that at all. He let Scuderi and Malone walk without really giving them a competitive offer. Both of those guys were core reasons behind our success and we developed them in-house.

Sure, we signed Crosby... but I think that is more of the Crosby/Lemieux/ownership relationship at work, not so much Shero.

One big bright spot for Shero is his ability to take risks via the trade market. I was a big fan of the Hossa/Guerin/Kunitz/Neal deals and I hope that he will continue to swing for the fences in the future.

The big disconcerting thing for me is the fact that hardly any of the guys that Ray Shero drafted have panned out to be solid NHL regulars at this point. I still think we need to give him another 2-3 years before any conclusion can be made about his drafting acumen though.


Last edited by cassius: 07-13-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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Old
07-13-2012, 07:20 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Overall: Great GM

Awful at signing players, really, really good at trades. Jury is still out on drafting, but I'd give him and his scouting staff a pretty low grade. Aside from Staal, who was a top-3 pick and sure bet, only Despres and Jeffrey have sniffed the NHL. Some others are very, very promising, but they're still a few years away.
I'm curious why he's awful at signing players. It's not his fault that Parise preferred to sign hometown team or Hossa felt Wings was better team or he didn't like Therrien. There are 29 teams to compete with in free agency.

Cooke, Dupuis, Engo are ridiculously underpaid. He signed Neal and Letang, both damn good contracts.

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07-13-2012, 07:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
As far as his ability to re-sign players? I really don't buy that at all. He let Scuderi and Malone walk without really giving them a competitive offer. Both of those guys were core reasons behind our success and we developed them in-house.
.
Malone was ridiculously overpaid. No way Shero would match his offer. Malone wouldn't take hometown discount.

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07-13-2012, 07:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I think he might be the most overrated GM in the entire league and there seems to be a disturbing trend amongst many that want to almost worship him like a god. I don't like the style of team he wants to build, I don't like his style of players he has drafted. There has been enough of a time that has passed where you can rationally evaluate his drafts and he has produced a pretty dismal record in that regard as far as getting solid prospects with top 6 or top pairing ability. He gets a ton of credit for a cup winning team that was based off of the core group of players he inherited. We have now gone how many seasons since he has taken over and the very same problem exists in the farm still, there is no quality forward depth in the farm. Draft after draft this area is neglected and it leads us to be spurned by people like Parise when we absolutely NEED them since we have no internal solutions. We couldve gotten the highest rated forward on the board at the draft this year but instead we reach for another kind of Dman we already have tons of. I'd like for more people to seriously question him and not just blindly believe he craps gold.
I agree. IMO, Sid/Geno/Staal/MAF/Letang have overshadowed his mediocre moves and poor drafting.

What pisses me off it that he's basically drafting/acquiring Dmen just to trade them later for wingers instead of drafting/acquiring forward prospects.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see the Pouliot pick over both Fors and Grigs being a defining miss in Shero's career. The Pens have soo many top D prospects that it's going to be a loong time before DP is even competing for a spot on the roster. On the other hand Fors would be competing for a top 9 wing spot next summer.

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07-13-2012, 07:38 PM
  #63
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He's always impressed me with his attitude and how he deals with players/people. I think he's a great leader for an organization. He seems to have gotten much better at drafting the past few years. He's always been a beast at trades. He hasn't gotten that winger for Sid but he tried with Hossa. The Pens then won the Cup with the 3C model and he stuck with that as long as he could at the expense of getting an expensive winger. Probably was the right move.

He hasn't really done great in UFA. That's the one legit criticism. I remember watching the TSN show and they made the point that a lot of UFA's bust though. They get way overpaid and turn out to not be worth it. It's not just Shero.

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07-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
My issue is more with who he decided to use that 8th overall pick on, or more notably who he didnt use it on. That trade would look a lot better if there was a forward with upside equal to or greater than Staal along with the cheaper replacements we got. Instead we lost a great forward and replaced it with.... another defensive prospect.
Why would a GM give us a forward with greater upside than Staal for Staal? makes no sense.

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07-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Malone was ridiculously overpaid. No way Shero would match his offer. Malone wouldn't take hometown discount.
$4.5M isn't ridiculously overpaid for a solid top-6er with a physical presence who can play in front of the net. Agree to disagree.

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07-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #66
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Shero is one of the best GMs in hockey, and I think Pens fans are absolutely spoiled to have him.

The Pens had a problem at wing? Shero has so far half solved that problem by trading for Neal, now a forty goal man, and then locking him up for the next while at 5 million. That's just ... monstrous.

The Crosby contract? Unbelievable. Shero and his supporting cast (and Mario) have built an organization class players want to be a part of ... it's fantastic.

Staal trade? It had to happen, and I think Shero got good value.


On the FAs, sometimes there is nothing you can do. Parise was not going to leave NJ, where he was captain, to go play for a rival team (ticking off Devil's fans) where he had no roots or reason to be. It's that simple. Minnesota is his home.. Playing with Crosby isn't everything. What are you going to do?

Shero can't simply will the team to be a winner every year. Things go wrong. I can't fault him that Martin and Michalek didn't work out. I was as excited about those signings as anyone.

As to the wingers, I'm glad Shero isn't rushing to over pay for some over hyped player. I'm guessing Crosby's wing situation will be addressed with a trade. Maybe Semin may still be signed .

I'm confident though that the Pens organization will address the problem. If you want to see an organization that can't build at all and pretty much has no clue beyond vacuuming up draft picks... see my city . (Not that I can blame players for not wanting to live here though.. haha)

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07-13-2012, 07:40 PM
  #67
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Agree with Father Time that the Michalek trade is really the only thing the last few years that has bugged me quite a bit. For whatever reason though they didn't feel confident in the guy with his style of play and injury situation maybe. I still think we could've gotten more for him but PHX was probably the only destination Ray had in mind because he knew it would be the least disruptive to Z. That and he knew PHX would readily take him back with a decent contract. Would've liked to get Vermette out of that deal though; throw in a draft pick or whatever and make it happen. That, vs. all the prospects.
What about doing nothign this past deadline?

Sometimes doing nothign is just as bad as making a bad trade.

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07-13-2012, 07:41 PM
  #68
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Shero hasn't got Sid's winger yet but he's take runs at two of the best in the league (Hossa and Parise).

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07-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #69
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Very few people here (I don't remember anybody actually) gave a crap about not re-signing Malone at the time. We had bigger fish to fry. We were trying like hell to keep Hossa and Orpik. We also needed to extended Malkin, Fleury and eventually Staal. Malone was a good player but well down the list of priorities. That's just the way it goes. 4.5 million may not look like a lot now but it looked like a lot in 2008 when the cap was much lower. Not to mention how front loaded that deal Tampa gave him was.

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07-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #70
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Excellent trades..hossa dupuis kunitz guerin gill neal niskanen..and I will classify staal trade as excellent cause he was leaving for nothing come next july.I'm gonna add a personal twist on this next one. Getting anything for letestu was awesome in my book. Cause I despised sloth as I like to call him. And some of you here had a love affair with him that made me hate him even more. So that was awesome for me. Personally.

Bad trades ekman. Ponikarovsky. Leopold. Hamhuis. Kovalev. I'm gonna throw domenic moore in there too. Just cause I think he could of contributed but we had talbot and there was an abundance of centers so understandable. So what did we lose in the bad? Luca caputi...buuuuuust. and a few draft picks which would of resulted in more dmen..

Equation on trade front.. he's really good when he's good and when its bad. Its not really that bad cause they were all worthwile risks. So big thumbs up on the trading he's spot on.

Draft strategy does really bother me however. Its in my own opinion that to have true true value like whitney and gogo these guys actually have to make it to the nhl and contribute. The abundance of them puzzles me cause a good portion is never gonna get the opportunity at the nhl level. Granted some won't pan out but to pick so many of them and neglect your needs seems a bit redundant to me. And counteractive. But to argue that his drafts have been good or bad is impossible at the moment. Right now to me they have been bad. But despres morrow bennett etc. Could change that either this year or next. But up til that point his rate of nhl contributors isn't good.for 6 years worth of drafting.again could change soon.

Free agent front..if its not our own he's kinda useless. Sykora was a suprise cooke is solid.other than that your consiment 4th liners. Id consider fedotenko a success too. Satan michalek and martin. Id consider fail. I think martin is garbage that's my opinion he doesn't fit here just like michalek imo. But who would of known they were both excellent with their old teams. There's more I'm sure you guys will bring up. All in all though the guy istop 25 percent in the league and so 75 percent of the teams in the league are worse off at gm. I'm not a fan of his complacency ala last years deadline and this year in fa. But who knows he may just pull off another excellent trade. I'm gonna keep the faith until I'm shown otherwise.

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07-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #71
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$4.5M isn't ridiculously overpaid for a solid top-6er with a physical presence who can play in front of the net. Agree to disagree.
Agree that the Malone signing was a bit of a miss. I would have liked to have seen Shero try to lock him up, possible for just slightly less and a similar long term thing.

I think he's a great GM; perfect, he ain't.

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07-13-2012, 07:50 PM
  #72
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Very few people here (I don't remember anybody actually) gave a crap about not re-signing Malone at the time. We had bigger fish to fry. We were trying like hell to keep Hossa and Orpik. We also needed to extended Malkin, Fleury and eventually Staal. Malone was a good player but well down the list of priorities. That's just the way it goes. 4.5 million may not look like a lot now but it looked like a lot in 2008 when the cap was much lower. Not to mention how front loaded that deal Tampa gave him was.
Doesn't matter... GM's get paid to see the big picture and clearly going all in on Hossa and neglecting Malone wasn't the best move. Sure, $4.5M was a lot at the time... but not so much these days considering the Leino-type of contracts out there. Hell, Staal is making $6M/year for 10 years.

You can't argue that Malone wouldn't fill a huge hole on this roster. Simply put, since he left we haven't had a big body that wasn't afraid to play in front of the net and score the dirty goals. He also opened up a ton of space for his linemates.

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07-13-2012, 07:51 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Very few people here (I don't remember anybody actually) gave a crap about not re-signing Malone at the time. We had bigger fish to fry. We were trying like hell to keep Hossa and Orpik. We also needed to extended Malkin, Fleury and eventually Staal. Malone was a good player but well down the list of priorities. That's just the way it goes. 4.5 million may not look like a lot now but it looked like a lot in 2008 when the cap was much lower. Not to mention how front loaded that deal Tampa gave him was.
This was exactly why Shero couldn't give Malone a big contract. It was too much back then. Your explanation is much better than mine.

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07-13-2012, 07:55 PM
  #74
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Very few people here (I don't remember anybody actually) gave a crap about not re-signing Malone at the time. We had bigger fish to fry. We were trying like hell to keep Hossa and Orpik. We also needed to extended Malkin, Fleury and eventually Staal. Malone was a good player but well down the list of priorities. That's just the way it goes. 4.5 million may not look like a lot now but it looked like a lot in 2008 when the cap was much lower. Not to mention how front loaded that deal Tampa gave him was.
This is true, however... Tampa sorta scooped him. iirc Pens offered 3.7 or something?

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07-13-2012, 07:57 PM
  #75
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This is true, however... Tampa sorta scooped him. iirc Pens offered 3.7 or something?
and employed his daddy.

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