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Summer 2012 Free Agency: The 7 Signs of Semyonka (Part the 12th)

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07-13-2012, 09:07 PM
  #976
WhatsaMaatta
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
so we're not having hockey next year then?
They're just preparing to settle, IMO, but those are some pretty extreme terms.

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07-13-2012, 09:10 PM
  #977
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People keep touting the trade route for a winger, but I can't see it. We all know that we can't afford one of the elite guys. After that, all I see are names of guys that probably aren't even available.

Besides, anybody worth trading for is going to cost Despres, and I don't want to trade him. I have a hunch he ends up playing a big role this year.

The way I see it, you take the chance on Semin, or else grab Kostitsyn. Only viable options that I can see.

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07-13-2012, 09:17 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
People keep touting the trade route for a winger, but I can't see it. We all know that we can't afford one of the elite guys. After that, all I see are names of guys that probably aren't even available.

Besides, anybody worth trading for is going to cost Despres, and I don't want to trade him. I have a hunch he ends up playing a big role this year.

The way I see it, you take the chance on Semin, or else grab Kostitsyn. Only viable options that I can see.
If you want a proven 40 goal scorer, no we don't have the assets.

An upgrade over Dupuis and TK in the top 6? Yes, we have the expendable assets for that trade.

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07-13-2012, 09:19 PM
  #979
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If you want a proven 40 goal scorer, no we don't have the assets.

An upgrade over Dupuis and TK in the top 6? Yes, we have the expendable assets for that trade.
indeed. We might not know who is available but that doesn't mean they aren't available. And it doesn't mean Shero isn't in talks or at least asking around. How many people saw Whitney for Kunitz coming? Or a 3rd-5th round conditional pick for Billy Guerin. Not every trade is as public as Nash or Staal. I'm sure most GMs would prefer none of them were.

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07-13-2012, 09:25 PM
  #980
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indeed. We might not know who is available but that doesn't mean they aren't available. And it doesn't mean Shero isn't in talks or at least asking around. How many people saw Whitney for Kunitz coming? Or a 3rd-5th round conditional pick for Billy Guerin. Not every trade is as public as Nash or Staal. I'm sure most GMs would prefer none of them were.
I'm sure Shero has an idea of what GMs are willing to give up for Martin. Possibly for Despres. Signing Niskanen gives us the flexibility to move one of them. Especially with the logjam fighting for the 6/7 spots.

I could see us mostly standing pat this offseason. Giving Tangradi and Bennett looks in camp. Bennett being sent back down. Tangradi possibly staying in the top 6. Seeing how Despres and Martin play to start the season. They play well in the top 4, we're all but certain to land a longterm solution for Sid.

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07-13-2012, 09:28 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'm sure Shero has an idea of what GMs are willing to give up for Martin. Possibly for Despres. Signing Niskanen gives us the flexibility to move one of them. Especially with the logjam fighting for the 6/7 spots.

I could see us mostly standing pat this offseason. Giving Tangradi and Bennett looks in camp. Bennett being sent back down. Tangradi possibly staying in the top 6. Seeing how Despres and Martin play to start the season. They play well in the top 4, we're all but certain to land a longterm solution for Sid.
As of right now there's pretty much no way Tangradi isn't at least on the third line. I like him getting a shot. I'm not thrilled that it's by default If this is the roster we have going into the season I could definitely see Tangradi taking the LW spot next to Geno and Neal with Kunitz moving back with Sid and Dupuis. All he has to do is outplay TK for that spot and even if TK is the overall better play, Tangradi is the far better fit. And I really can't imagine Bylsma wanting Tangradi on his checking line.

Obviously one NHL wing signing changes that.

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07-13-2012, 09:29 PM
  #982
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Question. What's an offer sheet?

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07-13-2012, 09:33 PM
  #983
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Question. What's an offer sheet?
Just offering a contract to an RFA. If they accept the deal from another team, the team that has the RFA rights has the option of matching any contract offered. If they don't match it, they get compensation picks from the team that signed them. The more they sign for, the more the compensation. I think the highest end is like 3 or 4 1st round picks or something crazy like that.

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07-13-2012, 09:51 PM
  #984
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Just offering a contract to an RFA. If they accept the deal from another team, the team that has the RFA rights has the option of matching any contract offered. If they don't match it, they get compensation picks from the team that signed them. The more they sign for, the more the compensation. I think the highest end is like 3 or 4 1st round picks or something crazy like that.
Ahhhh okay thank you.

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07-13-2012, 09:54 PM
  #985
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Ahhhh okay thank you.
ya I just figured it out not long ago. Not sure why it has a special name haha

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07-13-2012, 10:11 PM
  #986
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL proposal to players: 1-reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %. 2-10 seasons in NHL before being UFA. 3-contracts limites to 5 years 4-no more salary arbitration. 5- entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.
The only way the players take a reduced percentage is with the league making concessions. Such as a shorter period to UFA (currently at 7 yrs - iirc). Entry level contracts won't change. And there's no chance that the players get rid of arbitration - as much as I dislike some of the awards, it's a needed process for those players (who qualify) to come to an arrangement with a GM. And more revenue sharing.

Honestly I expect to see the % at 50-53% with UFA years coming down to 6 (this will be the biggest concession the owners would have to make in return for the players giving up $). Possibly some sort of cap on contract term (6-7 years).

But if what Renaud tweeted is accurate, then I don't see us watching NHL hockey in Oct. Yes you aim high when making your initial offer, but not so high that the other guy thinks you're absolutely crazy.

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07-13-2012, 10:15 PM
  #987
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The only way the players take a reduced percentage is with the league making concessions. Such as a shorter period to UFA (currently at 7 yrs - iirc). Entry level contracts won't change. And there's no chance that the players get rid of arbitration - as much as I dislike some of the awards, it's a needed process for those players (who qualify) to come to an arrangement with a GM. And more revenue sharing.

Honestly I expect to see the % at 50-53% with UFA years coming down to 6 (this will be the biggest concession the owners would have to make in return for the players giving up $). Possibly some sort of cap on contract term (6-7 years).

But if what Renaud tweeted is accurate, then I don't see us watching NHL hockey in Oct. Yes you aim high when making your initial offer, but not so high that the other guy thinks you're absolutely crazy.
Haha, I was thinking the same.

I wonder what the players proposal or want list is though. Probably just as crazy.

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:52 PM
  #988
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Haha, I was thinking the same.

I wonder what the players proposal or want list is though. Probably just as crazy.
Yeah it'd be interesting to see. However I don't see how they would be complaining too much... the average salary went up by well over 25% in the last 7 years (if memory serves it was ~1.4m before lockout and ~2m now).

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:11 PM
  #989
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Welp, hope there's not a lockout.

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:17 PM
  #990
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I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch until they really sit down and start negotiating. These were each side's fantasy situations. They'll get real, real soon.

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07-13-2012, 11:28 PM
  #991
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Yet you think we are getting Seto when there has been zero interest & it makes zero sense for them to trade him. Talk about wasted keystrokes.

Your statement implies that prior to an NHL trade being executed, there must be "chatter" or rumors of interest. This is a naive statement. Yes, sometimes we do hear of trade winds and specific players/names being discussed, but more often than not, things are done by surprise. Shero, in particular, seems to keep things pretty close to the vest, so we shouldn't expect to be forewarned of a specific trade.


That being said, there is plenty of reason to put 1+1+1 together and come up with reasonable speculation that the Pens will have interest in a trade (if they can't get their desired winger by UFA), and Shero has already stated that they will investigate this possibility. And when it comes to Minnesota specifically, while there is no specific evidence to suggest a trade with them is imminent, there are reasons why a trade with them makes sense:

1) They do have defined weaknesses on their team, most notably on defense.

2) While they do have some high-end defensive prospects (Brodin & Dumba), they don't have a ton of depth at that position in their prospect pool relative to forward.

Points #1 and #2 suggest that they may have interest in either Dman prospects (which we have in abundance) and/or established Dmen.

3) Minnesota has EXCELLENT prospect depth at the forward position. Having said that, in the event that guys like Coyle, Zucker & others may not be able to step in and play immediately, they may have some interest in a more established forward -- whether that be a guy like Kennedy, or a younger player who is older & more on the cusp of being NHL ready (i.e. Jeffrey/Tangradi), so they don't have to rush their young players in if they're not ready.

4) Somewhat conversely to #3, if they do feel that guys like Coyle, Granlund and/or others are ready to step into a top-6/top-9 role, they may look to make a spot for them, and trade from THEIR area of strength (forwards) to address an area of need on Defense, or more established veteran players.

In either case of points #3 and/or #4, there is strong reason to suggest that they may have to make some movement up front and have the flexability to do so.

5) Shero & Fletcher have a great relationship, which always helps to serve as a foundation for discussion & fascilitating trade possibilities.

6) Given the above-mentioned relationship, and the fact that Mike Yeo was also a part of our organization, it means that Fletcher/Yeo have a very good knowledge & understanding of the Pens' players -- at the prospect level, WBS, and the big club -- which gives them a level of comfort, confidence & interest in potential trade targets, because they know what type of player(s) & people they may be acquring.

7) These two teams play in a different conference, so there is less concern of trading within your own conference/division and having to play against former players.

8) Their area of strength (forward depth) and our area of strength (defensive depth) are very complimentary.

So the bottom line is: Minnesota and Pittsburgh are great trade partners. Setoguchi is a logical target if we were to make a trade, since we are trying to acquire a top-6, and preferably right-handed winger. At the same time, it could be a more simple trade such as, say, Strait or Lovejoy for a prospect or draft pick; or perhaps even a big time prospect swap, such as a Despres or Dumoulin for a guy like Charlie Coyle.

Coyle or Setoguchi are two reasonable names on a list that may be 5 to 10 players long that the Pens may realistically target as young, talented wingers who can fill a top-6 role. Maybe the Wild have an interest, maybe they don`t. Maybe the Pens have an interest, or maybe those targets are not their first choices. Either way, it`s an exceedingly reasonable and practical possiblity -- and fits with the ideas of making moves where we pay a lot less for a younger & less expensive player than going after a Nash or Ryan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'm sure Shero has an idea of what GMs are willing to give up for Martin. Possibly for Despres. Signing Niskanen gives us the flexibility to move one of them. Especially with the logjam fighting for the 6/7 spots.

I could see us mostly standing pat this offseason. Giving Tangradi and Bennett looks in camp. Bennett being sent back down. Tangradi possibly staying in the top 6. Seeing how Despres and Martin play to start the season. They play well in the top 4, we're all but certain to land a longterm solution for Sid.

Agreed, and this brings up another important point: we also shouldn`t rule out the possibility of a 3-way kind of trade. If we don`t have the direct assets to get a player we want from one team, there is the possibility of moving a guy like Martin to a 3rd team to bring in an asset that would fascilitate the other move. There are lots of possibilities out there, and I think among them we will find a deal that makes sense for our needs.

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:36 PM
  #992
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All I want is someone with 20-20 or 25-25 potential. Sid will turn them into 25-25 or 30-30.

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07-13-2012, 11:50 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
The only way the players take a reduced percentage is with the league making concessions. Such as a shorter period to UFA (currently at 7 yrs - iirc). Entry level contracts won't change. And there's no chance that the players get rid of arbitration - as much as I dislike some of the awards, it's a needed process for those players (who qualify) to come to an arrangement with a GM. And more revenue sharing.

Honestly I expect to see the % at 50-53% with UFA years coming down to 6 (this will be the biggest concession the owners would have to make in return for the players giving up $). Possibly some sort of cap on contract term (6-7 years).

But if what Renaud tweeted is accurate, then I don't see us watching NHL hockey in Oct. Yes you aim high when making your initial offer, but not so high that the other guy thinks you're absolutely crazy.
This is just all bartering tactics, it was said best in Rum Diaries (and I slightly paraphrase), "if you want to raise taxes 5%, you propose to raise them 10%. Then meet in the middle so they feel like they win, and yo get the original 5% you wanted."

There will probably be a few shots back and forth to the extent of that phrase with these CBA agreements, it just so happens the NHL got the first volley.

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07-14-2012, 01:05 AM
  #994
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When the NBA had talks last summer, the PA was pretty insulted by the owner's first demands. Most people called them ridiculous and crazy (it included a reduction of 40% of player salary + a hard cap of $45 mil vs the soft cap of $58mil ), so no, this really isn't anything new.

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07-14-2012, 01:10 AM
  #995
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Continue here.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1230317

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