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The Lockout Thread: Good Things Come To Those Who Wait

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:39 PM
  #26
Anton Dubinchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
In technical buisiness lingo, this is called a "first offer". They tend to look kind of one-sided.
Even then, it seems like even for an opening offer the two sides are WAY far away.

This was NOT the news I was looking to hear...

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07-13-2012, 10:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Even then, it seems like even for an opening offer the two sides are WAY far away.

This was NOT the news any sane person was looking to hear...
Fixed.

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07-13-2012, 10:41 PM
  #28
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Limiting the number of years a contract can be signed is the only reasonable compromise. All the others will most def lead to a lockout.

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07-13-2012, 10:49 PM
  #29
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Even then, it seems like even for an opening offer the two sides are WAY far away.
The NHL proposed 54/46 because they're shooting for 50/50. We've known since the NBA unlocked that the NHL would want 50%.

This news really isn't as bad as it's being perceived...people have just been too optimistic to this point.

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07-13-2012, 10:50 PM
  #30
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I personally like the 10 years to UFA maybe a little long but to keep teams cohesive and competitive, they need to be able to keep their players..

But yeah that offer has no shot in hell.

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07-13-2012, 11:01 PM
  #31
tarheelhockey
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1 - reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %.

They want 50%. The PA wants as close to 57% as possible. Likely final destination in the 52-54% range.


2 - 10 seasons in NHL before being UFA.

They likely want 8 or 9. I see this being a place where the PA could make some gains.


3 - contracts limites to 5 years

More likely to be 7 when it's said and done.

4 - no more salary arbitration.

Yeah right. Sets the stage for changes in the arbitration process.

5 - entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.

They really want 4.


If you think of it in terms of what the NHL is really expecting, none of the demands other than eliminating arbitration seem too crazy. The writing has been all over the wall.

Really the big question is how much the PA wants to flex its muscles. These issues are nothing compared to establishing a salary cap, negotiating an escrow system, etc like back in 2005. Quite honestly, most of it could be negotiated in a week if both parties were really feeling pressured to do so.

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07-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #32
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I thought they were looking to play this season under the previous CBA while negotiating. What happened to that?

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07-14-2012, 11:00 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
1 - reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %.

They want 50%. The PA wants as close to 57% as possible. Likely final destination in the 52-54% range.


2 - 10 seasons in NHL before being UFA.

They likely want 8 or 9. I see this being a place where the PA could make some gains.


3 - contracts limites to 5 years

More likely to be 7 when it's said and done.

4 - no more salary arbitration.

Yeah right. Sets the stage for changes in the arbitration process.

5 - entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.

They really want 4.


If you think of it in terms of what the NHL is really expecting, none of the demands other than eliminating arbitration seem too crazy. The writing has been all over the wall.

Really the big question is how much the PA wants to flex its muscles. These issues are nothing compared to establishing a salary cap, negotiating an escrow system, etc like back in 2005. Quite honestly, most of it could be negotiated in a week if both parties were really feeling pressured to do so.
I agree with most of what you said but you didn't address the NHL wanting to revise what counts as hockey related revenue, which I believe is a complete non-starter for the PA. They are going to take a lower percentage and a smaller pie. Won't happen under Fehr.

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07-14-2012, 11:06 AM
  #34
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Numbers four and five they just flat out aren't going to get.

UFA will be 8 or 9 years instead of the 7 it is now.
Split will probably be somewhere around 50-52% to the PA side, though possibly with a requirement that the cap can't go any lower then the 70 million it's currently at.
Contract limits they'll get. Won't be 5 but will probably be 7 since that's the insurance threshold.

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07-14-2012, 11:10 AM
  #35
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I'd love ufa being pushed back and entry level deals extended. These are moves that clearly help the middle/smaller markets. The pa won a huge advantage moving ufa to so soon last lockout. There are no more second contracts, players hit the jackpot coming out their elc now. I don't know that these changes do much to help that, but longer control of the young guys you need to keep would be awesome.

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Old
07-14-2012, 11:27 AM
  #36
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so apparently Skinner was one of the players at the meeting. As were Subban and Couture. Definitely was a "wait, what?" seeing those 3 names among the other NHLPA names listed.

Quote:
The NHLPA was represented by Fehr; Mathieu Schneider, the special assistant to the executive director; and legal counsel. The players in attendance were Chris Campoli, Logan Couture (San Jose), Steve Montador (Chicago), George Parros (Florida), Jeff Skinner (Carolina), Jason Spezza (Ottawa), PK Subban (Montreal) and John Tavares (N.Y. Islanders). Campoli is an unrestricted free agent.
edit: make that 4, Tavares. Fehr definitely wants the young stars to have a good bit to say about this process if this sort of thing keeps up. Aside from Spezza, who would be UFA eligible after this contract regardless, the rest of the group is either young stars or role players.

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07-14-2012, 11:31 AM
  #37
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52% PA
8 year UFA'S
8 year contract
Salary arbitration stays
ELC 4 years


we all know it will end up within a small incriment of what I just posted. So quit ****ing around and get us hockey. The rest is just a penis measuring contest.

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07-14-2012, 11:35 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Anton View Post
52% PA
8 year UFA'S
8 year contract
Salary arbitration stays
ELC 4 years


we all know it will end up within a small incriment of what I just posted. So quit ****ing around and get us hockey. The rest is just a penis measuring contest.
NSFW, but I couldn't resist lol


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Old
07-14-2012, 02:32 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I thought they were looking to play this season under the previous CBA while negotiating. What happened to that?
The players floated this to paint the owners as the bad guys. Everybody knows the NHL won't allow the season to start without a CBA. The players just wanted to make it clear it wasn't them who wouldn't play without a new deal.

But as little leverage as the owners have, they'd have even less if the season started on schedule under the old CBA. The players will play forever under the current CBA, so they'd have no reason to even talk about a new one.

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07-14-2012, 06:27 PM
  #40
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Quote:
@CraigJButton: Based on 'Alleged' NHL offer to NHLPA & 11-12 revenues. Approximate midpoint @ 46% share is $50.2 Million with upper @ 54.2 & lower @ 42.2
Quote:
@DarrenDreger: NHL's initial proposal is just that...the 1st proposal. Players knew it would be heavily one-sided. PA will counter and negotiation starts.


Last edited by Xylo: 07-14-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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Old
07-14-2012, 11:02 PM
  #41
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@DarrenDreger: NHL's initial proposal is just that...the 1st proposal. Players knew it would be heavily one-sided. PA will counter and negotiation starts.
So THAT'S how that works. Thanks Darren.

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07-14-2012, 11:40 PM
  #42
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So THAT'S how that works. Thanks Darren.
Looking at some of the immediate responses, we did need the clarification.

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Old
07-15-2012, 10:24 AM
  #43
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If the cap drops by a sizable number you would think the Nash price would come down since it would eliminate a slew of teams who would already have cap issues

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07-15-2012, 10:39 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
If the cap drops by a sizable number you would think the Nash price would come down since it would eliminate a slew of teams who would already have cap issues
The Rangers have 16M in cap space as it is. They're barely at the floor I'm pretty sure.

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Old
07-15-2012, 10:42 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
The Rangers have 16M in cap space as it is. They're barely at the floor I'm pretty sure.
On top of that their only re-signings left are Del Zotto (will probably get McBain money or bit more), Stralman (who won't get much) and Eminger (who they might let walk anyway).

Even if the cap goes down a lot, there won't be any affect on New York or Detroit in regards to Nash.

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07-15-2012, 10:48 AM
  #46
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Yeah, and you'd have to assume Dubinsky would be heading to Columbus in any deal for Nash, which would help alleviate Nash's impact on their cap.

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07-15-2012, 11:23 AM
  #47
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I heard Rick Nash was gonna go to the Kings so he could play in the same city as his brother Steve.

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07-15-2012, 11:43 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
Yeah, and you'd have to assume Dubinsky would be heading to Columbus in any deal for Nash, which would help alleviate Nash's impact on their cap.
So you are assuming the Jackets will end up taking whatever the Rangers want to unload? There is very little appeal to Duby IMO

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07-15-2012, 11:49 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
So you are assuming the Jackets will end up taking whatever the Rangers want to unload? There is very little appeal to Duby IMO
Dubinsky is hardly a cap dump. He had an off year, but he's still a good physical, gritty 2nd liner with a knack for goal scoring. He has good trade value, but isn't all that essential to the Rangers with Kreider and Hagelin emerging on the LW.

If Howson lowers his demands, I'm guessing he ends up a Ranger for something like Dubinsky, Anisimov, Christian Thomas, 1st.

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07-15-2012, 11:53 AM
  #50
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