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Old
07-05-2012, 01:06 AM
  #26
Paul4587
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I agree 100%. And yeah, unfortunately the more I read about it, the more I think another lockout is inevitable. The players think they gave up too much after the last lockout and I don't think they're likely to budge on some of the issues that ownership brings up.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:16 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
I don't think that's how it works. I think the 12 million in year 1 includes the 10 million in signing bonus. Not sure though.
You're right.

I could swear though, CapGeek used to do salary and bonus seperate before (e.g. 2 + 10)...

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07-05-2012, 11:50 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
You're right.

I could swear though, CapGeek used to do salary and bonus seperate before (e.g. 2 + 10)...
He get his 10 mil right away and then is paid the 2 mil over the course of the season for a total of 12. This was done so the new CBA does not affect what he receives as a signing bonus right away. The bonus does factor into the AAV though. At least that is how I understand it.

These contracts obviously hurt teams like the Ducks because they cant pay the immediate 10 million signing bonus.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
He get his 10 mil right away and then is paid the 2 mil over the course of the season for a total of 12. This was done so the new CBA does not affect what he receives as a signing bonus right away. The bonus does factor into the AAV though. At least that is how I understand it.

These contracts obviously hurt teams like the Ducks because they cant pay the immediate 10 million signing bonus.
The signing bonus thing probably won't be an issue long term. Is there any real benefit to doing it that way other than the specter of a lockout? To the Ducks it's just the frontloading that hurts, I don't think the signing bonus matters too much.

I think there should be two big changes to curb these contracts.

One, make the 35+ cap hit apply for all years over 35, even if the contract was signed before (they may make the age older than 35... but bottom line is make the rule apply to extra years past that age no matter when the contract is actually signed).

Two, expand the 50% rule. Either make it cover a longer time frame (instead of max drop from year to year, can't also drop max * 1.5 over 2 years or something) or make the max drop based off of the median or lowest salary, vs the salary of the first two (frontloaded) years.

There might also be a signing bonus cap... ELCs are capped at a 10% signing bonus.

I'm not sure about making the cap hit just year to year the salary like many people are suggesting. That makes sense at first, but it just seems to have some far-reaching implications. For example it does seem like bonuses should be averaged through the life of the contract. And the cap hit of one contract jumping up and down from year to year really makes planning difficult.

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07-06-2012, 09:33 AM
  #30
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I actually think the signing bonus hurts teams like the Ducks because Suter and Parise will get 22 million each in the the first year the contract is signed (10 mil at signing as a bonus + 2 mil salary and then another 10 mil next July 1). HS would never approve a contract like that making it impossible for the Ducks to compete.

I wish the league would simply get rid of the AAV. Just make the cap hit what the actual money paid is per year (including bonus). It can change every year based on the money paid out. So Suter and Parise would both have a 12 million dollar cap hit this year. That would probably get rid of the huge front loaded contracts and give teams a more even playing field because no team could pay 24 million for 2 players. As far as the planning, well the GM or cap guru on each team would have to be a little more on their toes IMO.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:48 AM
  #31
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So RC wants to try and use JVR as a center next season for Toronto.

Bobby Ryan v2

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Old
07-06-2012, 11:56 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
I actually think the signing bonus hurts teams like the Ducks because Suter and Parise will get 22 million each in the the first year the contract is signed (10 mil at signing as a bonus + 2 mil salary and then another 10 mil next July 1). HS would never approve a contract like that making it impossible for the Ducks to compete.

I wish the league would simply get rid of the AAV. Just make the cap hit what the actual money paid is per year (including bonus). It can change every year based on the money paid out. So Suter and Parise would both have a 12 million dollar cap hit this year. That would probably get rid of the huge front loaded contracts and give teams a more even playing field because no team could pay 24 million for 2 players. As far as the planning, well the GM or cap guru on each team would have to be a little more on their toes IMO.
But I don't think it's the signing bonus part of that that hurts the Ducks (10 million now, 10 million on July 1st 2013). I think it's the front loading (24 million in the first two years, whether or not it was paid monthly or in two installments).

My suggestions were basically aimed at getting rid of these contracts more indirectly. By reducing the incentive for extreme front-loading while still trying to preserve the niceness of averaged contracts.

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07-06-2012, 12:07 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
So RC wants to try and use JVR as a center next season for Toronto.
He's 2/10 on at the faceoff circle last 3 seasons (156 games).

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07-07-2012, 04:42 AM
  #34
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So RC wants to try and use JVR as a center next season for Toronto.

Bobby Ryan v2
When you have to do these experiments you know you have some holes in your lineup.

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Old
07-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #35
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Any Devils prospects able to use the Schultz loophole and sign with us so we can tell Devils fans how it feels to lose a captain who promised to stay with the team after losing in the SCF only to team up with a buddy on July 1st.

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07-09-2012, 06:42 PM
  #36
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Any Devils prospects able to use the Schultz loophole and sign with us so we can tell Devils fans how it feels to lose a captain who promised to stay with the team after losing in the SCF only to team up with a buddy on July 1st.
I feel for Devils fans, as this is the second time they've lost their captain and franchise player for reasons completely out of their control. But, I imagine the smear campaign will be on somewhat, as it was with Niedermayer, so you definitely feel a lot less sorry.

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07-11-2012, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Derek Roy underwent shoulder surgery, out till Nov.

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07-11-2012, 04:57 PM
  #38
Eddie Shack
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
Derek Roy underwent shoulder surgery, out till Nov.
I hate to say this, but it sure makes BM look like a genius doesn't it?

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Old
07-11-2012, 05:35 PM
  #39
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Probably explains the low price on the Roy trade. If there's a lockout he might not even miss any games.

But after our experience I'm pretty wary of shoulder surgery. Even if he "recovers" to play games, he might not recover for this entire season.

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07-11-2012, 06:29 PM
  #40
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The Vlasic extension makes the Carle and Wideman contracts look even more ridiculous than they already did. Next years UFA crop is thinning out fast, ever year they're getting worse and worse. Lets hope there won't be two star forwards who have played together their whole pro career available on next years market.....

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Old
07-12-2012, 12:22 PM
  #41
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Damn. Caps signed Wolski for $600k.

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Old
07-12-2012, 02:11 PM
  #42
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Derek Roy underwent shoulder surgery, out till Nov.
Should of traded for him!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
07-12-2012, 04:04 PM
  #43
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Teemu resigns 4.5 1 year

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07-12-2012, 04:31 PM
  #44
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Bonino signed for two years per Dreger
Quote:
Bonino agrees to 2 year deal w/Anaheim Ducks.
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...13324816572417

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Old
07-14-2012, 01:00 AM
  #45
Lord Flashheart
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NHL proposal to players:
1-reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %.
2-10 seasons in NHL before being UFA.
3-contracts limites to 5 years
4-no more salary arbitration.
5- entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.

Lockout.

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Old
07-14-2012, 01:31 AM
  #46
Eddie Shack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
NHL proposal to players:
1-reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %.
2-10 seasons in NHL before being UFA.
3-contracts limites to 5 years
4-no more salary arbitration.
5- entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.

Lockout.
If that's true I find it hard to believe they can come to a reasonable compromise. Fehr has already emphasized the players are going into this negotiations with a foundation based on all the give backs of last time. In other words, they are looking to give very little from the status quo.

Also, where does that leave negotiations with guys like Getz, Perry and Webber who have one year remaining until ufa under the current CBA? I don't know how teams or players can know what a good deal is to sign this off season.

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Old
07-14-2012, 01:32 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
NHL proposal to players:
1-reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %.
2-10 seasons in NHL before being UFA.
3-contracts limites to 5 years
4-no more salary arbitration.
5- entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.

Lockout.
This gives no indication of what will happen, but definitely shows that the NHL has no problem being strong in their demands. You expected them to be high on the first offer, but that's much more than expected, and includes some things that I didn't expect to be sticking points(like entry level deals). This list also doesn't include the NHL wanting to redefine what HRR is, so not only do they want to give them a smaller piece of the pie, they want to shrink the pie as well. They also want the players to earn the same salary every year. I think I also read somewhere they only want the ceiling to be $4 million above the midpoint, as opposed to the $8 million it is now.

But aside from there being no hockey to start the year, it's a pretty good indicator for us. For one, expect Getzlaf and Perry to really get these contract extension talks going. With basically everything indicating that they won't get monster deals on the open market, they'll want to get what they can while they can get it. I think I predicted matching 7 year, $50 million deals. I have a good feeling that's exactly what will happen now. Maybe they really want security and go for something like 10 year, $60-65 million deals. But I would be surprised if neither is wrapped up before Labour Day.

The rest of the demands also indicate two great things for us: the cap is definitely going down and cap circumventing contracts will be done away with. And with Fehr's stance on rollbacks, I think that's where the amnesty clauses come in.

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Old
07-14-2012, 02:07 AM
  #48
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It's an attempt to gain back some cost control over the idiot GM's who broke the rules. Extend the ELC because the RFA contract was broken by Edmonton. Eliminate the circumvention contracts they need to get rid of. There's probably a majority of owners who want to stick it to the geniuses using the circumvention contracts but who will trade real profit sharing for not making them dismantle their teams by offering a grandfather clause to them. It's also probably indicating they don't give a rat's ass about Fehr and his reputation and are either starting far enough off so a middle ground can be reached with compromise that is actually a middle ground, or sending a message that a MLB style CBA won't be repeated in the NHL - ever.

Anyone who didn't see something like this coming hasn't been paying attention to the Forbes reports the last few years.

Agreed this is probably the single most important factor in Perry re-signing here.

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Old
07-14-2012, 02:17 AM
  #49
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It's an attempt to gain back some cost control over the idiot GM's who broke the rules. Extend the ELC because the RFA contract was broken by Edmonton. Eliminate the circumvention contracts they need to get rid of. There's probably a majority of owners who want to stick it to the geniuses using the circumvention contracts but who will trade real profit sharing for not making them dismantle their teams by offering a grandfather clause to them. It's also probably indicating they don't give a rat's ass about Fehr and his reputation and are either starting far enough off so a middle ground can be reached with compromise that is actually a middle ground, or sending a message that a MLB style CBA won't be repeated in the NHL - ever.

Anyone who didn't see something like this coming hasn't been paying attention to the Forbes reports the last few years.

Agreed this is probably the single most important factor in Perry re-signing here.
I think Perry was staying either way, just my own personal speculation, but this just helps accelerate matters on both ends. It's imperative Perry and Getzlaf get a deal done before any agreement is made, or the more likely scenario to happen first, they're locked out.

And, damn, thinking about the bold makes me sad. If those offer sheets don't happen, we could've been a freakin dynasty.

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Old
07-14-2012, 02:33 AM
  #50
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...3225--nhl.html

If you read the Puck Daddy anonymous player link above it lays out a reasonable POV if you're a player. It speaks to serious revenue sharing which I think is where Fehr is going to try and push the league. Certainly the players aren't going for more give backs which all of these leaked proposals are.

Don't forget, the players were content playing under the old CBA. It's the owners who gave notice to cancel it. This could get uglier than I first expected.

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