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NHL proposal amounts to declaration of war

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Old
07-14-2012, 01:42 AM
  #1
geowild
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NHL proposal amounts to declaration of war

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=400580

Quote:
RDS.ca posted details of the proposal, including a reduction of players' hockey-related revenues from 57 per cent to 46 per cent.

Renaud Lavoie, a journalist with RDS, also reports that players would need to wait 10 seasons before becoming unrestricted free agents and that contracts would be limited to a maximum of five years.

The RDS story also says that the NHL's proposal would bring an end to salary arbitration and that entry-level contracts would be five years instead of three as they are under the current CBA.

Larry Brooks of the New York Post also tweeted that the NHL's proposal would eliminate signing bonuses on future contracts and mandate that all future deals have an equal value for every year of the contract.
Wow. How transparently not serious.

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07-14-2012, 01:45 AM
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Minnesota
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Bob McKenzie seems pretty pessimistic about the season starting on time. Not a good sign.

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07-14-2012, 02:06 AM
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IHaveNoCreativity
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Oh lord, we're not not having hockey this year....

The players won't tolerate that ****...

No way players let FA increase to 10 years of service...

They won't accpet an 11% reduction...

5 years max is a joke.....

A 5 year entry level deal ? Ridiculous....


This is going to be bad...

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07-14-2012, 02:11 AM
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Northland Wild Man
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This is where negotiations start, they will have to compromise on each one of those points. Nothing to get concerned about just yet IMO.

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07-14-2012, 02:25 AM
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Fel 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Bob McKenzie seems pretty pessimistic about the season starting on time. Not a good sign.
Bob said he'd be shocked if the season started at the right time 2 months ago.

It seems like he already knew what was going to happen.

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07-14-2012, 02:26 AM
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07-14-2012, 02:33 AM
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Northland Wild Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
Bob said he'd be shocked if the season started at the right time 2 months ago.

It seems like he already knew what was going to happen.
I think Lou Nanne said that as well a while back.

I would like to see what the PA's offer sheet looks like as well so I could judge how far apart the two sides are.

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07-14-2012, 02:38 AM
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Blakkmantis
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I never really did expect the season to start on time, too many things to hash out, and not much more time to do it. Both sides haven't really been too serious about working things out either from what I have been hearing. This is all like selling cars though, you ask too much like the deal listed in the OP here, with the expectation you will be talked down. More than likely they will meet somewhere in the middle, less than what was said here. Sucks we most likely won't have the season start on time, but it's in the best interest of both parties to get this settled ASAP, and not lose the season all together.

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07-14-2012, 02:42 AM
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NHL1674
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Let's all be honest. We knew the league would explode should the Wild hook both Suter and Parise. It just wasn't an immediate explosion. The bomb has a long fuse.

Tickets already paid for, so that will be good in the fall of 2013 after both sides get their @#$! together. It's gonna be a long battle. Yeah, both sides know that they can't afford another lockout. They still haven't won back all of the fans from the last one. But the problem is, neither side cares. We've seen that sad fact too many times.

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07-14-2012, 02:45 AM
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My guess is the season will start in December.

Don't think it's gonna be as bad as the last one.

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07-14-2012, 03:03 AM
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I'm very disappointed if the season gets delayed. I understand that this is their jobs and their terms they are fighting about, but still.

So high hopes, now I really can't even start to plan a trip to watch some of the games.

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07-14-2012, 03:18 AM
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It's the end of days!!!

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Old
07-14-2012, 06:52 AM
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To the KHL it is...

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07-14-2012, 10:18 AM
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I think they get the deal done, this reminds me of last year when preds Gabe 4.5 mil ad fair value for Weber in arbitration. Nhl is listing their dream deal which will be compromised on

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07-14-2012, 10:25 AM
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Jbcraig1883
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For you contract/capologist gurus...

If the prospects play in the AHL like Butch, Burns, O'Sullivan did in the 04-05 lockout, how does that affect their entry level deals/UFA status? Does Houston or any AHL team have to sign guys to AHL deals then? Or is this all irrelevant because the AHL would not begin either??

Clearly I paid a lot of attention to the NHL/AHL relationship in the current CBA.

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07-14-2012, 11:19 AM
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geowild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northland Wild Man View Post
This is where negotiations start, they will have to compromise on each one of those points. Nothing to get concerned about just yet IMO.
With that as an initial, the NHLPA is going to come back with 65-35 split, *minimum* five year contracts, cap floor=cap ceiling, and no entry draft.

Why wouldn't they? The NHL's demands are a slap in the face --they're going to slap back.

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07-14-2012, 11:53 AM
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And I wonder how long it is before NBC steps in and slaps Bettman's pee-pee for screwing with their only major sport during the winter?

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07-14-2012, 12:01 PM
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Avder
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When I read these at first all I could do was stare at the list with my mouth open in a look of shock.

If the owners are at all serious about any of these demands, we're not getting any NHL action until at least 2013.

And unless the players do something equally ridiculous, this time the lockout will firmly be the owners fault.

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07-14-2012, 12:01 PM
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I am still holding out hope they get a deal done. I subscribe to the shoot for the moon and expect to come down theory. Really think both sides know last time is still in the back of the mind of their paying customers.

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07-14-2012, 12:25 PM
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BigT2002
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All about negotiations at this point anyways. If we hit mid August and they haven't made headway, then I will start to get concerned. Till then, this is a month of who has the bigger cawk.

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07-14-2012, 12:29 PM
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squidz*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geowild View Post
With that as an initial, the NHLPA is going to come back with 65-35 split, *minimum* five year contracts, cap floor=cap ceiling, and no entry draft.

Why wouldn't they? The NHL's demands are a slap in the face --they're going to slap back.
The league demands are exactly what every single person with an idea about the situation would have expected. The players will not demand anything more than what they have from a money perspective. They would never even for a second consider "cap floor = cap ceiling" because that's a stupid thing the players wouldn't want.

Likely player demands:

Unchanged revenue split

HRR includes everything it currently does, plus a few new things

25 year old RFA

Full 3rd party discipline process

Improved arbitration rights

Reduced escrow rates - This could take a lot of different forms

Higher pay on ELCs

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07-14-2012, 12:30 PM
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squidz*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Bob McKenzie seems pretty pessimistic about the season starting on time. Not a good sign.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

That is, I was pessimistic to begin with, figured there was no way season starts on time and today's news only reinforces that sense.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

So there's going to be a lot of "the sky is falling" forecasts, and maybe it will, but I'll wait until September to put on my hard hat.

Make up your mind...

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07-14-2012, 12:35 PM
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bozak911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Unchanged revenue split

Full 3rd party discipline process

Improved arbitration rights
These are the three things that I have heard are major sticking points for the players. With the caveat that even the players union does not like the arbitration process.

The current arbitration process is basically a forced situation where the management team trashes the player and the player trashes the management team. Due to the fact that there are sometimes guaranteed arbitration meetings...

I'm pretty sure that both sides want to drastically either do away with this process or completely over haul it.

The proposal I heard was this sort of logic tree:
If QO = Yes Then set percentage increase over previous contract, for 1 year.
Else (QO=No) Then Player becomes UFA.

That way, management has the ability to throw out the QO or not. Then, it's a done deal, good or bad, rather than sitting in a room and being ***** to each other because that is what the system expects.

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07-14-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TZM View Post
To the KHL it is...
This is why Semin is waiting to sign. He could sign 1 year over in the KHL and still play a full season. Or atleast that is my reasoning for him not signing.

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07-14-2012, 01:04 PM
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squidz*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbcraig1883 View Post
For you contract/capologist gurus...

If the prospects play in the AHL like Butch, Burns, O'Sullivan did in the 04-05 lockout, how does that affect their entry level deals/UFA status? Does Houston or any AHL team have to sign guys to AHL deals then? Or is this all irrelevant because the AHL would not begin either??

Clearly I paid a lot of attention to the NHL/AHL relationship in the current CBA.
Whether or not years on deals expire is something that would be determined in the new CBA. That is to say, we don't know yet because that's one of the many "to be decided" factors. If there were a full year lockout (still no reason anyone would even think that a possibility) either result could ensue. As for the last lockout, 1 year expired on all deals except for ELCs that were in their first year (I'm pretty sure that was the cutoff...).

As for the AHL, there will be a season there. They're governed by their own CBA which is wholly independent from the NHL's CBA. As for contracts to be signed, players would need to seek new contracts with AHL teams. There may be stipulations about how or if this works in the AHL CBA (I've never read it, but it's possible to have non-compete clauses and the like built in) but I couldn't tell you what they are.



Very important facts that no one ever seems to want to mention:

In no CBA is agreed to by September 15 (the day the current CBA expires, yes there still is a current CBA) nothing actually happens. Under the relevant labor laws, if a CBA expires and is not replaced both employers and employees are required to operate under the terms of the expired CBA until it is replaced. Literally what that means is that play will continue under the existing rules until either the owners lock players out or the players go on strike. Donald Fehr has pledged that the players are willing to start the season, if genuine (and not just a horrible media ploy) the owners and players are likely to agree to a no-stoppage clause and play this season under the expired CBA (as has happened multiple times in league history, albeit once without the no-stoppage clause which bit the owners).

If the owners lock players out (potentially could be a good short-term plan as revenues from October through December are markedly lower than revenues for the rest of the season) it starts costing them money in January. If they're confident they can secure a favorable deal in that timeframe (that seems like a big no considering the factors involved) they might be willing to lockout players until December/January. I'd put this at a relatively low probability of occurring unless the players refuse to agree to a no-strike clause on the season.

If the players were to strike, they would be unable to seek replacement employment, so they'd be unable to play in the AHL, Europe, wherever. Because of that, and the seasonal nature of player compensation, it's unlikely the players would strike prior to April. However, Fehr is most notable for engineering a player strike between the final game of the season and the playoffs in baseball. That's the point where the players may have the most negotiating room. Considering the structure of the league's deal with NBC, I'm not so certain the players would have that leverage there in this case.




Ultimately the question of "who's at fault" is better asked "who does not agree to a no-stoppage clause?"

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