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2012 NBA Off-Season Thread: There's a new team in town

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07-15-2012, 07:54 PM
  #226
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$30 million for a month of entertaining Basketball.

Nothing against Lin for going for that type of money but the Knicks are smart to part ways.
No, they're not.

It's either Lin, who MIGHT help to make this team really good, or Ray Felton, who WON'T.


We have 3 years to win a title. Bite the bullet, grab Lin, and then if we don't win a ring we're going to be the worst team in the league again for a decent amount of time, but we might as well try to win a ring before that.

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07-15-2012, 08:09 PM
  #227
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People excited about Ray need a reality check. Look at what he averaged in the 80+ games he played before and after his Knicks tenure, when he wasn't under D'antoni.

He's not going to thrive in Woodson's system.

Lin might not either, but the way I see it we have 2 years to win a title before everything collapses. Sign Lin and go for it, because if not we're just gonna wallow in futility anyway.
Exactly.

If anyone saw Ray play in Denver/Portland, they would realize he was absolutely horrible. If he's so good, why did no one offer him a contract since he was a UFA? Because he flat out sucks. Plus, he's fat.

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07-15-2012, 08:30 PM
  #228
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Exactly.

If anyone saw Ray play in Denver/Portland, they would realize he was absolutely horrible. If he's so good, why did no one offer him a contract since he was a UFA? Because he flat out sucks. Plus, he's fat.
Yeah, but most of us saw him play for the Knicks where he averaged 17 points and 9 assists over 54 games.

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07-15-2012, 08:31 PM
  #229
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Also, JR Smith is an idiot. Not a big fan of his at all. Keep your mouth shut and go back to tweeting about stupid ****.

I have a feeling that the veterans on this team are not fans of the money Lin would make OR how popular he is.

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07-15-2012, 08:32 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
No, they're not.

It's either Lin, who MIGHT help to make this team really good, or Ray Felton, who WON'T.


We have 3 years to win a title. Bite the bullet, grab Lin, and then if we don't win a ring we're going to be the worst team in the league again for a decent amount of time, but we might as well try to win a ring before that.
He made the Knicks better in the past though, so I'm not sure how you can definitively say he won't now.

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07-15-2012, 08:33 PM
  #231
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Yeah, but most of us saw him play for the Knicks where he averaged 17 points and 9 assists over 54 games.
Yeah, with Mike D'Antoni who happens to have a record of making PGs look better. Lin was actually still good Post Pingles.

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07-15-2012, 08:37 PM
  #232
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How much does it suck that if the Rockets keep Lin, he gets 8-8-8 for all 3 years but if he comes back to the Knicks, it's 5-5-15.


I do think there are some players jealous of his popularity. Not just Knick players either.
When the Knicks played Miami, they were determined to bring "Linsanity" down a notch. They game planned for Lin like he was Derrick Rose. Supposedly Wade & Lebron were a bit peeved that the league at the time was talking about Lin while Miami (on a win streak I believe) was on the back burner.

Crazy stuff.

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07-15-2012, 08:39 PM
  #233
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Yeah, with Mike D'Antoni who happens to have a record of making PGs look better. Lin was actually still good Post Pingles.
Good, but not as good. He had (if I counted right) 11 20+ point games with Prings as the coach, but after he got fired not one 20+ point game in 6 games.

Felton is more established as well. He wasn't good with Denver or Portland, but when he was with Charlotte he averaged 14 pts 7 assists. In 35 games, Lin averaged 14 pts and 6 assists. Their stats are pretty much the same, except a much smaller sample size for Lin.

edit: Felton's career stats are ~13 ppg ~7apg, Lin's are 14.5 ppg and 6 apg


Last edited by Stugots: 07-15-2012 at 08:44 PM.
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07-15-2012, 08:54 PM
  #234
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Good, but not as good. He had (if I counted right) 11 20+ point games with Prings as the coach, but after he got fired not one 20+ point game in 6 games.

Felton is more established as well. He wasn't good with Denver or Portland, but when he was with Charlotte he averaged 14 pts 7 assists. In 35 games, Lin averaged 14 pts and 6 assists. Their stats are pretty much the same, except a much smaller sample size for Lin.

edit: Felton's career stats are ~13 ppg ~7apg, Lin's are 14.5 ppg and 6 apg

What I feel some people are forgetting is that Lin is at the very least a pretty good prospect, who has the chance to be a top 10 pg in the league, Ray Felton isnt that guy.

Its just a bonehead move by Dolan and crew, and I wouldnt be shocked if some Knick fans jump ship, nor would I blame them.

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07-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #235
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He seems like a nice enough kid that you can root for that to happen for him.

But he also wasn’t near the Pollyanna he was perceived to be. On the one hand, he reportedly celebrated his original offer sheet from the Rockets by having dinner with Knicks assistant Ken Atkinson, the man he always credited with working with him so tirelessly, even before Linsanity hit. On the other, he also apparently shared with Houston the Knicks’ strategy of matching that original offer, which helped Houston decide to re-do the deal, and angered Knicks brass.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...#ixzz20kCh8zQl

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07-15-2012, 09:36 PM
  #236
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Anyone arguing against keeping Lin is either someone who wasn't a fan to begin with or is lapping up the company line being distributed to the press. There is no rational reason not to keep him.

The Knicks will be over the cap for the next 3 seasons REGARDLESS of whether or not they match. The only difference is the amount of tax they pay. So, even if you don't plan on keeping him, why give him up for nothing? Given his Bird rights, you are in the unique position of keeping an extra valuable player that you would not otherwise be able to keep - it's not like he's taking a spot that could go to some other player of equal (or even far lesser) value.

The logical thing to do is to match. Then, you can either keep him or trade him. But giving him up for nothing? Foolishness and - if it happens - simply the crowning example of Dolan's ego dictating personnel decisions to the lasting detriment of the team and its fanbase.

If it happens, it will be the last straw for me.

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07-15-2012, 09:50 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Anyone arguing against keeping Lin is either someone who wasn't a fan to begin with or is lapping up the company line being distributed to the press. There is no rational reason not to keep him.

The Knicks will be over the cap for the next 3 seasons REGARDLESS of whether or not they match. The only difference is the amount of tax they pay. So, even if you don't plan on keeping him, why give him up for nothing? Given his Bird rights, you are in the unique position of keeping an extra valuable player that you would not otherwise be able to keep - it's not like he's taking a spot that could go to some other player of equal (or even far lesser) value.

The logical thing to do is to match. Then, you can either keep him or trade him. But giving him up for nothing? Foolishness and - if it happens - simply the crowning example of Dolan's ego dictating personnel decisions to the lasting detriment of the team and its fanbase.

If it happens, it will be the last straw for me.
It really doesn't make sense that this would be about money. but it could be. I wouldn't rule it out. Anything is possible with this dysfunctional organization.

So my guess is that the Knicks are either upset at the way Lin has handled this (according to all these reports) or they simply don't think he's worth the contract.

He is, essentially a prospect still. Would you pay a prospect who hasn't even played a half a season, let alone a full season, 30 million?

But like I said, I kind of doubt it's about money. I believe the Knicks are pissed at Lin for going back to Houston for money after the original offer sheet was reasonable.

I think the Knicks played this wrong too. By telling him to test the market instead of just offering the most they could, 24 mill.
Grunwald probably thought there was no way there would be a team that pays him more than that.

He was obviously wrong.

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07-15-2012, 10:02 PM
  #238
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Can someone give me the quick 2 sentence summary on whats going on with Lin? Is he going to pkay for the knicks? Why did they get Kidd?

Thanks in advance

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07-15-2012, 10:23 PM
  #239
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Lin was worth a decent sized contract but that 15 million in the 3rd year could absolutely destroy the Knicks if he ends up just being an average starter, which is the most likely scenario. He probably won't be a star and he looks better than a back up... but Felton at 3 is better than Lin at 8 when you look at it from a value perspective.

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07-15-2012, 10:46 PM
  #240
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Lin was worth a decent sized contract but that 15 million in the 3rd year could absolutely destroy the Knicks if he ends up just being an average starter, which is the most likely scenario. He probably won't be a star and he looks better than a back up... but Felton at 3 is better than Lin at 8 when you look at it from a value perspective.
How on earth would it "destroy" them? They'll be over the cap anyway due to the 3 max contracts of Melo, Amar'e and Chandler. There is NO reason not to match - other than Dolan's ego.

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07-15-2012, 10:49 PM
  #241
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How on earth would it "destroy" them? They'll be over the cap anyway due to the 3 max contracts of Melo, Amar'e and Chandler. There is NO reason not to match - other than Dolan's ego.
Comparing Lin to any of those guys is a bit of a joke, to be honest.

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07-16-2012, 06:25 AM
  #242
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Doesn't Anthony, right now, make more money than all three of those players despite not being as good as any of them? Isn't he one of the top 5 or 6 paid players in the league despite being nowhere near one of the top 5 or 6 players in the league?

When is the last time any player made any subjective comment of this nature about the money another player is receiving to the press, much less a guy on his own team?

Aside from guys who have been charged or found guilty of some sort of malicious crime, or have said or done something really inappropriate from an ethical perspective, I struggle to think of a more unlikable player in professional sports today than Anthony.
Apples and Oranges.

You're comparing a point guard to a small forward.

And I said top-5 scorers in the league, which Anthony most certainly is.

4th among active players in PPG.

And you struggle with it because you absolutely detest him as a human being, while rational people who dont like him do so because he's a ball hog.

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07-16-2012, 06:29 AM
  #243
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Anyone arguing against keeping Lin is either someone who wasn't a fan to begin with or is lapping up the company line being distributed to the press. There is no rational reason not to keep him.

The Knicks will be over the cap for the next 3 seasons REGARDLESS of whether or not they match. The only difference is the amount of tax they pay. So, even if you don't plan on keeping him, why give him up for nothing? Given his Bird rights, you are in the unique position of keeping an extra valuable player that you would not otherwise be able to keep - it's not like he's taking a spot that could go to some other player of equal (or even far lesser) value.

The logical thing to do is to match. Then, you can either keep him or trade him. But giving him up for nothing? Foolishness and - if it happens - simply the crowning example of Dolan's ego dictating personnel decisions to the lasting detriment of the team and its fanbase.

If it happens, it will be the last straw for me.
It's a business decision and a pretty smart one. Besides, the Knicks don't need Lin to sell out games, let alone win them.

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07-16-2012, 09:14 AM
  #244
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Lin got that contract because of 12 games. Not 12 seasons. Not 12 weeks. Not 12 months.

12 Games.

In his last 15 games of the season, he averaged 15 points, 6.7 assists, 4 turnovers, shooting 40 pct from the floor, and 30 pct from three.

Lin doesnt have the fatigue excuse. The 1st 10 games of the season, he averaged 6 mins a game.

Lin was exhausted after 15 games as a regular. Not only did he look exhausted, he played exhausted, and ultimately was injured.

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07-16-2012, 09:19 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Anyone arguing against keeping Lin is either someone who wasn't a fan to begin with or is lapping up the company line being distributed to the press. There is no rational reason not to keep him.

The Knicks will be over the cap for the next 3 seasons REGARDLESS of whether or not they match. The only difference is the amount of tax they pay. So, even if you don't plan on keeping him, why give him up for nothing? Given his Bird rights, you are in the unique position of keeping an extra valuable player that you would not otherwise be able to keep - it's not like he's taking a spot that could go to some other player of equal (or even far lesser) value.

The logical thing to do is to match. Then, you can either keep him or trade him. But giving him up for nothing? Foolishness and - if it happens - simply the crowning example of Dolan's ego dictating personnel decisions to the lasting detriment of the team and its fanbase.

If it happens, it will be the last straw for me.
Then why didnt the Rangers trade Messier at the 1997 deadline when Smith knew he was going to lowball him with a garbage offer that 99 pct of the league would have offered higher? Neil Smith refused to negotiate during the season, yet acted shocked when Messier followed the money.

The Knicks are not in the wrong here. As great a story as Lin is, he isnt worth 45 million in luxury taxes.

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07-16-2012, 09:21 AM
  #246
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If, for argument’s sake, the Knicks payroll was equal to the luxury tax threshold, adding an extra $15 million for Jeremy Lin’s salary would cost the Knicks a total of $43 million. They’d have to pay Lin’s salary, and the luxury tax payment for a team $15 million over the tax threshold—in 2014-2015—will be about $28 million.
Now, after adding Felton, retaining Lin becomes even more expensive.
If the Knicks match Lin’s offer and end up being $19 million above the luxury tax threshold because of it, they would owe $41.75 million in luxury tax penalties, and when you include Lin’s $15 million salary, his total cost could be about $57 million.
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/07...too-expensive/

LINsanity indeed.

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07-16-2012, 09:27 AM
  #247
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It would make sense to not match Lin in any context but this one. All Carmelo and Stat have proven is that they can limp into the playoffs, and yet we're going for it hard and fast.

If we're going for it you sign Lin and legitimately go for it.

The luxury tax to Dolan is a drop in the bucket when you then consider how much money he'll make from marketing Lin overseas.

And I was one of the few people here who didn't buy into "linsanity" when he was dominating. I'm pretty sure I remember getting called out for it. But right now he's better than Ray Felton and has the potential to be MUCH better than Ray Felton. If we're going for it, you bite the bullet.

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07-16-2012, 09:32 AM
  #248
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So Lin will not be a knick this year?

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07-16-2012, 09:46 AM
  #249
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This sucks.

NBA should get rid of this stupid cap all together. Not exactly helping small market teams anyway.

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07-16-2012, 09:56 AM
  #250
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This sucks.

NBA should get rid of this stupid cap all together. Not exactly helping small market teams anyway.
The full effect of the cap won't kick in until next year. No more S&T's and whatever others measures they have.

Anyways, seriously it's Jermey Lin. The kid was a day away from being cut from the Knicks and he's going to get that crazy money.

The Knicks put all their eggs in one basket for the next 3 years. If it doesn't work start over again with a new team. I would have been more upset if they lost shump then Lin.

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