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07-15-2012, 01:48 PM
  #351
PhoneGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
The return for Staal was pretty impressive though, right? They did not get one big superstar player, but they did not sell him undr worth. And not only had he refused to extend with the Pens, he had also made the one team he wanted to go to public knowledge. I understand the worry about whether or not he will re-sign, but I would not get too down about the possible return yet.
Exactly. Poile should tell Webs "If you're not willing to sign, I'm going to have to trade you..which team(s) would you like to play for?" and then Poile should go try to work out a deal with one of those teams. Those teams would know that there's a good chance Webs would sign long term with them, and that's how Poile gets the king's ransom for him.

(note I say "should" and not "would/will"...)

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07-15-2012, 02:38 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoneGuy View Post
Exactly. Poile should tell Webs "If you're not willing to sign, I'm going to have to trade you..which team(s) would you like to play for?" and then Poile should go try to work out a deal with one of those teams. Those teams would know that there's a good chance Webs would sign long term with them, and that's how Poile gets the king's ransom for him.

(note I say "should" and not "would/will"...)
Scratch that part. After Suter burned the Predators, I hope a harda** Poile emerges and starts doing business with grit.

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07-15-2012, 02:47 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by codeyh View Post
Scratch that part. After Suter burned the Predators, I hope a harda** Poile emerges and starts doing business with grit.
That's not the way things would go however. Weber is a free agent and can talk to anybody. If I'm a team looking to negotiate with Poile I've already called Weber and asked him if he's willing to sign a long term deal with us and what kind of money he's looking for. At that's at bare minimum. Honestly, if it were me I'd already have a contract agreed to, ready to sign once the trade was made. Much like the Flames trading for Wideman and then immediately announcing that he'd signed a 5 year deal with them. Did it really take them only a couple of minutes to negotiate a contact with Wideman? Common sense says not.

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07-15-2012, 02:57 PM
  #354
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Exactly. Poile can't simply trade him to any team, not caring whether or not Weber is interested in signing there long term. GMs of every team interested will call Weber's agent to gauge interest first, if they haven't already. Only teams where he has a legitimate interest of playing will offer up good packages of players, prospects, and picks. Teams that know he won't be signing long term might offer something, but it will be next-to-nothing in terms of value.

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07-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #355
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I'm so glad that one poster from every team comes over to tell us what we've already been over 15 times since July 5th.

thnx guyz!!!!!

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Old
07-15-2012, 06:02 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Is Colin Wilson projected to be a second line center? Because for Staal and Stepan we need a decent second line center in return.
Wilson is as good as Stepan.

That would be Staal for Weber straight up. I love Staalsy, but......

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07-15-2012, 06:50 PM
  #357
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I know teams can call weber and negotiate a deal. the cba is webers biggest enemy and our friend. If Weber ants to sign in vancouver, and they have a 12 year deal that he will sign, poile can name his price. weber knows he can't sign a one year deal, bc his next will be only 5 or 6 with a new cba. he can't sign a long term offer sheet bc we will match. he can't sign a one year offer sheet bc we match and then he doesn't get his long term deal. if this situation was last year or next year, the game would be changed. for once lady luck is smiling on us whether weber sign long term or we trade him for 3-4 assets

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07-15-2012, 07:51 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Wilson is as good as Stepan.

That would be Staal for Weber straight up. I love Staalsy, but......
Yeah... no.

I don't even know where to start with that. Wilson has never gone above 40 points... gets benched in playoffs, not a great skater... hasn't become a 2nd line center like stepan has...

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07-15-2012, 11:10 PM
  #359
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Agreed that the CBA counts in Nashville's favor, but I wonder how far Poile can push it. In the next CBA Weber may not get a lifetime deal, but he'll still get paid well regardless. I know Poile said he'd match any offersheet and it was the smart thing to say, but is it the smart thing to do?

If someone offersheets Weber for $8-10 million/year for one year, Nashville has the money and the cap to match it, but from that point on Weber can't be traded and one would assume is all but lost for nothing once the season is up. And Nashville may have gotten another year out of of him, but on the heels of Suter, have now lost a second prime asset for nothing.

If I was a GM in on Weber, this would be the trump card I'd hold over Poile. Either trade him for a "reasonable" price, or I'll offer-sheet Weber, and you'll either be left with nothing for him next year, or nothing but draft picks from me.

Many moving pieces, and no one has the trump card. Weber either wants to stay or wants to be traded, but will want it THIS year. Poile can deny Weber a lifetime deal by holding on to him, but then will be left with poor asset management. And teams trading for Weber have to be a team Weber wants to go to, and for a price that Poile can keep his job with.

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07-15-2012, 11:12 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Wilson is as good as Stepan.
Did you really just say that?

Stepan had 51 points last year.

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Old
07-16-2012, 12:54 AM
  #361
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I don't know how much credit you give Eklund around this board, but he just tweeted this....

https://twitter.com/Eklund/status/224742764422762496

Quote:
sounds like Preds getting closer to a Shea Weber trade. I will have more on this, and what teams will be first in line, in the morning

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:51 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I don't know how much credit you give Eklund around this board, but he just tweeted this....

https://twitter.com/Eklund/status/224742764422762496
This makes me sick to my stomach. I hope its not true but I know it probably is.

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:08 AM
  #363
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And Poile needs to be let go, if this is true

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07-16-2012, 08:12 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
And Poile needs to be let go, if this is true
why??

you amaze me with your contradictions.... Poile should be fired for letting Suter go for nothing but he should be fired for trading Weber for assets rather than letting him go for nothing??

I still think Poile ran over your dog.....


if Weber is being traded, its because he wants to leave, not because Poile wont pay him..... it sucks but the fault is Webers not poiles

if this in fact true, trade him for a huge return and move on...

Boston traded joe thornton and won a cup before the team they traded him to... it wont mean the end of the world...

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:20 AM
  #365
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Right now, the last person Preds fans want to hear from is a Wild fan, but us Wild did go through a similiar situation with Gaborik and Burns.

Losing Gaborik to free agency sucked. It was horrible.

Trading Burns for Setoguchi, Coyle, and a 1st (Zach Phillips), sucked for about 24-hours, and but then it became a major turning point in our franchise.

Weber is worth more than Burns. If he doesn't re-sign, you have to trade him. In many ways it frees you from the feeling you have to keep him, because a lot of times with a player like that somebody will overpay for him.

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07-16-2012, 08:21 AM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
why??

you amaze me with your contradictions.... Poile should be fired for letting Suter go for nothing but he should be fired for trading Weber for assets rather than letting him go for nothing??

I still think Poile ran over your dog.....


if Weber is being traded, its because he wants to leave, not because Poile wont pay him..... it sucks but the fault is Webers not poiles

if this in fact true, trade him for a huge return and move on...

Boston traded joe thornton and won a cup before the team they traded him to... it wont mean the end of the world...
Honestly, it depends on what he could get back.

If we got the crap that Atlanta got back (don't say it's not possible) for Hossa, then yes, boot him.

If he can land 2 roster players +picks +a dynamic young talent (or combinations thereof), then that's a different story.

A better question might be - if we trade Weber, and are able to land a couple of dynamic forwards and have to rebuild the defense corps - is "defense first, last, and always" Barry Trotz the best man to lead a team built like that?

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07-16-2012, 09:05 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Honestly, it depends on what he could get back.

If we got the crap that Atlanta got back (don't say it's not possible) for Hossa, then yes, boot him.

If he can land 2 roster players +picks +a dynamic young talent (or combinations thereof), then that's a different story.

A better question might be - if we trade Weber, and are able to land a couple of dynamic forwards and have to rebuild the defense corps - is "defense first, last, and always" Barry Trotz the best man to lead a team built like that?
people forget that Trotz led a team built not around defense but around Paul Kariya, Steve Sullivan and JP Dumont to consecutive 100+ point seasons... those alos happened tobe the years that Legwand and Erat had better offensive numbers

contrary to popular stereotype, I believe Trotz coaches with whatever he's got, though stressing defensively responsible play from everyone, but he is capable of having success with teams that have ofensively gifted forwards

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07-16-2012, 09:09 AM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
people forget that Trotz led a team built not around defense but around Paul Kariya, Steve Sullivan and JP Dumont to consecutive 100+ point seasons... those alos happened tobe the years that Legwand and Erat had better offensive numbers

contrary to popular stereotype, I believe Trotz coaches with whatever he's got, though stressing defensively responsible play from everyone, but he is capable of having success with teams that have ofensively gifted forwards
but it wasn't like we were running trash out there. Kimmo was in his prime, zidlicky half sucked, you had kids who didn't know better playing over their heads a bit, markov was decent, and so on. If we move him, we need to get a salary dump dman-ballard, whitney, someone of that ilk to go with whatever the cornerstone of the deal would be, whether it is a kesler, rnh, hall (my fear).

I know it isn't the most popular package, but we may be good with a burrows/edler/shroeder/pick package.

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07-16-2012, 09:36 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I know it isn't the most popular package, but we may be good with a burrows/edler/shroeder/pick package.
I am not trying to troll or anything, but that package is pretty weak. Elder is the best piece and he scheduled to walk next year. I think other teams will do way better than that.

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:06 AM
  #370
token grinder
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not trying to troll or anything, but that package is pretty weak. Elder is the best piece and he scheduled to walk next year. I think other teams will do way better than that.
I have my doubts as to the return but I think adding a 25 goal guy (will be interesting to see how much a product of the sedins he is), edler, who may re-sign, who knows, Maybe that is a contingincy of a deal, and shroeder may help wilson be a bit more comfortable. Can you imagine the pain in the ass it would be to play against burrows and hornquist on the same lien. Put a pain in the ass like spaling in there and you have a nice 3rd line. and add in a 1st rounder, figure 23-30 pick. gives us flexibility to package ours (figure 15-20) and vancouvers for a top 5 or ten pick. Or we just keep stocking the cupboard until we hit forward paydirt.

smith (20)-legwand (15)-erat (20)
wilson (15)-fisher (15)-shroeder (15)
burrows (20)-spaling (10)-hornquist (20)
sk (10)-gaustad-(5)halischuck (10)
McGratton-latta extras (5)

Josi (8)-Edler (12)
blum (9)-klein (6)
gill (3)-ellis (12)

that is a conservative 230 goals ( we scored 232 last year)

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Old
07-16-2012, 11:14 AM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Nashville need to keep Weber unless it's an "unrefusable offer" . The guys is 1 of the current best in the entire league plus he's an absolute beast every shift. Good skater, nice puck mover, decent shot , physical and very poise with good hockey i.q. He simply can do it all unlike 95% of hockey players.. He is a cornerstone that teams need to build around and those players do NOT get traded unless the return is ridiculous.. Hope he stays put.
lol ..

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Old
07-16-2012, 12:58 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Honestly, it depends on what he could get back.

If we got the crap that Atlanta got back (don't say it's not possible) for Hossa, then yes, boot him.

If he can land 2 roster players +picks +a dynamic young talent (or combinations thereof), then that's a different story.

A better question might be - if we trade Weber, and are able to land a couple of dynamic forwards and have to rebuild the defense corps - is "defense first, last, and always" Barry Trotz the best man to lead a team built like that?
Hossa was a deadline deal and a pending UFA. He also was never considered arguably th best forward in the NHL. Not even close comparables.

I can't see any possible way if we have to trade Weber that we don't get a massive return back unless Weber demands to be traded to one specific team.

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Old
07-16-2012, 01:17 PM
  #373
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I'd be happy with other team's top pairing and a prospect forward.

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Old
07-16-2012, 01:24 PM
  #374
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Eklund just wrote that there might be a deadline for Weber this Thursday or Friday until they will start shopping him. I'm not so sure about this because they extended their qualifying offer till August 1st.

He also proposed the asking price would be 2 top 6 forwards, 1 top 4 defender, 2 top flight prospects and 2 1st rounders. I think that asking price is asinine! I could see 5 assets going back, but 7 really really depletes a teams overall depth at the NHL level and also in their prospect level.

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07-16-2012, 01:35 PM
  #375
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Eklund's suggestion of a Lindros-like return is a bit exciting if this does come to fruition.

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