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Old
07-16-2012, 12:20 PM
  #26
briererocks
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I too agree that this team is worse. There is zero chance this team competes for the cup. We simply lack the defense, especially with Timmonen being a year older.

I may get roasted for this, but I sort of hope they do not make the playoffs. This years draft is supposed to be amazing. I would love to get Nathan Mackinnon, Seth Jones, Barkov, Sean Monahan etc.. I really don't see us winning a cup so I wouldn't be upset if we missed the playoffs and was able to grab a future star.

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07-16-2012, 12:25 PM
  #27
BrimFullofAsham45
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my point was just because a player had one bad season on a new team, doesnt mean he's just going to suck for the rest of his duration here. Player take time to adjust. Some player do it quickly and some player take longer. It's life, accept it. Yes, he did not have a good season, but I'm not just going to write him off already. The potential is there for him to play much better, because we saw glimpses of it.

It's like how people treat Briere here. How many "Briere is so bad, we should trade him" comments are made during the season, and then when the playoffs role around everyone is swinging from his nut sack and talking about how clutch he is
There is an optimist within me that wants to give Bryzgalov the benefit of the doubt, and I pray to god that he improves greatly. But if he improves to the extent that he's capable of leading a team to a Stanley Cup victory, honestly, that would be a miracle.

We've seen Bryz play at a high level, yes, but even when he is playing well, he lets in horrible goals, is often very unattentive, is very slow moving side to side and looks extremely awkward playing the puck. Goaltending is a position where confidence makes an extreme difference, but you have to wonder if Bryz has the mental fortitude to handle the pressure of playing in the Stanley Cup final, now that he completely trashed the 2011-2012 season and his reputation in Philadelphia.

Bryz is not a normal athlete with a normal professional athlete's attitude. Seeing Bryz face the media every game made me sad to be a Flyers fan. He needs to sack up and not act like a child in front of the media and give some semblance of resolve and prove he's not as mentally fragile as I believe him to be.

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07-16-2012, 12:28 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
I too agree that this team is worse. There is zero chance this team competes for the cup. We simply lack the defense, especially with Timmonen being a year older.

I may get roasted for this, but I sort of hope they do not make the playoffs. This years draft is supposed to be amazing. I would love to get Nathan Mackinnon, Seth Jones, Barkov, Sean Monahan etc.. I really don't see us winning a cup so I wouldn't be upset if we missed the playoffs and was able to grab a future star.


And if it goes the way you say and the pick busts then what?

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07-16-2012, 12:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
I too agree that this team is worse. There is zero chance this team competes for the cup. We simply lack the defense, especially with Timmonen being a year older.

I may get roasted for this, but I sort of hope they do not make the playoffs. This years draft is supposed to be amazing. I would love to get Nathan Mackinnon, Seth Jones, Barkov, Sean Monahan etc.. I really don't see us winning a cup so I wouldn't be upset if we missed the playoffs and was able to grab a future star.
Flyers don't tank.. You are on the wrong side of pennsylvania

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07-16-2012, 12:38 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
I too agree that this team is worse. There is zero chance this team competes for the cup. We simply lack the defense, especially with Timmonen being a year older.

I may get roasted for this, but I sort of hope they do not make the playoffs. This years draft is supposed to be amazing. I would love to get Nathan Mackinnon, Seth Jones, Barkov, Sean Monahan etc.. I really don't see us winning a cup so I wouldn't be upset if we missed the playoffs and was able to grab a future star.
Or you could become a Penguin fan

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07-16-2012, 12:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
There is an optimist within me that wants to give Bryzgalov the benefit of the doubt, and I pray to god that he improves greatly. But if he improves to the extent that he's capable of leading a team to a Stanley Cup victory, honestly, that would be a miracle.

We've seen Bryz play at a high level, yes, but even when he is playing well, he lets in horrible goals, is often very unattentive, is very slow moving side to side and looks extremely awkward playing the puck. Goaltending is a position where confidence makes an extreme difference, but you have to wonder if Bryz has the mental fortitude to handle the pressure of playing in the Stanley Cup final, now that he completely trashed the 2011-2012 season and his reputation in Philadelphia.

Bryz is not a normal athlete with a normal professional athlete's attitude. Seeing Bryz face the media every game made me sad to be a Flyers fan. He needs to sack up and not act like a child in front of the media and give some semblance of resolve and prove he's not as mentally fragile as I believe him to be.
After christmas Bryz put up ~.920 through to the start of the playoffs, good for top 10 in the NHL during that time, and had maybe 7 bad games in 35 during that time.

He ended the year with a respectable sv%... even though he was worst in the NHL during the first part of the year.

He did look a lot better in the last half of the year, and I think the reason was that he came here overweight, and struggled adjusting to the city and the media, and let it all get into his head, just look at how much better he handled the media in the later part of the year.

Next year he will be .915-920%... just like he has been for most of his career, in my opinion he will continue as he did after christmas, as opposed to how he started the year.

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07-16-2012, 12:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
After christmas Bryz put up ~.920 through to the start of the playoffs, good for top 10 in the NHL during that time, and had maybe 7 bad games in 35 during that time.

He ended the year with a respectable sv%... even though he was worst in the NHL during the first part of the year.

He did look a lot better in the last half of the year, and I think the reason was that he came here overweight, and struggled adjusting to the city and the media, and let it all get into his head, just look at how much better he handled the media in the later part of the year.

Next year he will be .915-920%... just like he has been for most of his career, in my opinion he will continue as he did after christmas, as opposed to how he started the year.
Bryz was only good in March, not the second half of the year. His total save % was 905 including playoffs. Without March for the entire year it would have been 896. Expectations of 915-920 is a high.

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07-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
I too agree that this team is worse. There is zero chance this team competes for the cup. We simply lack the defense, especially with Timmonen being a year older.

I may get roasted for this, but I sort of hope they do not make the playoffs. This years draft is supposed to be amazing. I would love to get Nathan Mackinnon, Seth Jones, Barkov, Sean Monahan etc.. I really don't see us winning a cup so I wouldn't be upset if we missed the playoffs and was able to grab a future star.
Please stop following the team immediatly, and go join your brothers across the border.

Also It's TIMONEN! Christ, he's been here 5 years.

Flyers will improve this year. They will over-achieve in the first 20 games of the season beating some big names, but will revert to the mean off the back of some stella goaltending from Bryz.

Luke Schenn and Bryz will report to camp not being told to be 30 lbs heavier than they should. Schenn is going to dominate on the ice, and make us forget who we traded to get him.

Having Grossman, Mezaros and Schenn for a full year is going to be like having 3 new FA's. Not to mention that we now don't have JVR, so hopefully, we will get a little more consistency out of the top 6.

If this team ever makes it to the play-offs healthy, they can do dangerous things.

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Old
07-16-2012, 01:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
I too agree that this team is worse. There is zero chance this team competes for the cup. We simply lack the defense, especially with Timmonen being a year older.

I may get roasted for this, but I sort of hope they do not make the playoffs. This years draft is supposed to be amazing. I would love to get Nathan Mackinnon, Seth Jones, Barkov, Sean Monahan etc.. I really don't see us winning a cup so I wouldn't be upset if we missed the playoffs and was able to grab a future star.
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Please stop following the team immediatly, and go join your brothers across the border.

Also It's TIMONEN! Christ, he's been here 5 years.

Flyers will improve this year. They will over-achieve in the first 20 games of the season beating some big names, but will revert to the mean off the back of some stella goaltending from Bryz.

Luke Schenn and Bryz will report to camp not being told to be 30 lbs heavier than they should. Schenn is going to dominate on the ice, and make us forget who we traded to get him.

Having Grossman, Mezaros and Schenn for a full year is going to be like having 3 new FA's. Not to mention that we now don't have JVR, so hopefully, we will get a little more consistency out of the top 6.

If this team ever makes it to the play-offs healthy, they can do dangerous things.
Well looky here. We have both ends of the spectrum. I don't think the Flyers have the right mix of players at the moment to do anything close to the sunshine and rainbows version, but I also think there is too much talent to be a complete lost year (barring injuries). We'll see the same old, same old -- good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to make much noise once they get there.

Defense is iffy, defensive forwards are scarce, there is no faceoff specialist, and the players who had career years last year have to at least match that level of play. And Bryz can't suck.

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07-16-2012, 01:17 PM
  #35
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Hopefully defensively the Flyers will be better then last year. As stated a million times keeping Timonen's minutes down so he isnt dead by April is a must this season. Of course that means that everyone has to play up to there capabilities and stay healthy. If Mez is healthy and can revert to the form he had in his first year here and Schenn can bounce back I think the Flyers should be fine as a group.
Up front they do have some question marks. They lost 30 plus goals in JVR and Jagr leaving. Can Hartnell, Simmonds,Read and Talbot maintain that level of last year. I think there may be some drop off with those guys, but I think Schenn and Couturier should contribute more. Finding some more secondary scoring would be nice as well.
There might be more pressure on Bryzgalov this season to play the way he is capable of. If he plays at a sub .900 level for the first half the season I cant see the Flyers being as fortunate in the standings as they were last year IMO

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07-16-2012, 01:20 PM
  #36
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Flyers don't tank.. You are on the wrong side of pennsylvania
A team that is good enough to make the playoffs shouldn't (and won't) tank, but the fact is many Cup winners had losing years before they won and had a high pick or two on their championship roster. It's not just as Pittsburgh thing. The sad fact it is a more successful method than trying to build through free agency and trades.

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07-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #37
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Just a note, When the flyers were down to playing MAB and manning on the blueline with the horrendous injuries we had. We completly changed our game-plan.

We played a solid defensive game, and actually stood infront of Bryz. That just happened to be the best stretch of hockey for the flyers all season, and bryz was spectacular.

That was rocking

Carle
Manning
Coburn
Grossman
MAB
Gustaffson

The team clearly has the abilty to play like a defensive stallwart. I believe that is the direction we will take this year. I can't see us going all out like last year. It might be nice to be able to defend. Jagr really didn't help in the defensive end, neither did Carle. We esentially add Mezaros, Schenn and Fedetenko to replace offense with defense.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:10 PM
  #38
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I feel like there is no way we could possibly have another year like the last where we had to endure so many injuries. I think that was the major factor in how things went, but also made us stronger in the long run for how we had to overcome them.

If we can stay healthy next year, and the younger guys continue to grow and step up their games, and Bryz brings back his March game, no reason we can't be a threat.

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07-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Codith View Post
I feel like there is no way we could possibly have another year like the last where we had to endure so many injuries. I think that was the major factor in how things went, but also made us stronger in the long run for how we had to overcome them.

If we can stay healthy next year, and the younger guys continue to grow and step up their games, and Bryz brings back his March game, no reason we can't be a threat.
And with that, Timonen, Schenn(s), Couturier, and Giroux all suffered concussions.

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07-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #40
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scoring could be a concern this season still. Cant expect career years again and the Flyers lost 30 plus goals via trade and FA. They should be better defensively however.
At the very least barring a shocking major move between now and October they will have some cap space to make a move.

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07-16-2012, 03:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I did the below randomly. Assuming Briere has a better regular season and Schenn and Couturier improve this could should be fine offensively.

Claude Giroux (C) 28 - 28 (same)

Scott Hartnell (LW) 37 - 32 (-5)
Jaromir Jagr (RW) 19 - gone
Wayne Simmonds (RW/LW) 28 - 25 (-3)
Jakub Voracek (RW) 18 - 20 (+2)
Daniel Bričre (C/RW) 16 - 25 (+9)
Matt Read (C/RW) 24 - 24 (same)
Kimmo Timonen (D) 4 - 4 (same)
Matt Carle (D) 4 - gone
Maxime Talbot (RW/C) 19 - 15 (-4)
Sean Couturier (C) 13 - 20 (+7)
Andrej Meszaros (D) 7 - 7 (same)
James van Riemsdyk (LW) 11 - gone
Braydon Coburn (D) 4 - 4 (same)
Brayden Schenn (C) 12 - 20 (+8)
Chris Pronger (D) 1 - gone
Eric Wellwood (LW/C) 5 - 5 (same)
Zac Rinaldo (C) 2 - 2 (same)
Marc-André Bourdon (D) 4 - 4 (same)
Harry Zolnierczyk (LW) 3 - 3 (same)
Nicklas Grossmann (D) 0 - 1 (+1)
Andreas Lilja (D) 0 - 0 (same)
Erik Gustafsson (D) 1 - 4 (+3)
Pavel Kubina (D) 0 - gone
Andreas Nödl (RW) 0 - gone
Tom Sestito (LW) 0 - 2 (+2)
Jody Shelley (LW) 0 - 0 (same)
Brandon Manning (D) 0 - 0 (same)
Matt Walker (D) 0 - 0 (same)
Ben Holmstrom (C) 0 - 0 (same)
Kevin Marshall (D) 0 - gone
Ruslan Fedotenko (LW/RW) 9 - 12
Luke Schenn (D) 2 - 2
Bruno Gervais (D) 6 - 6

260 vs 276

Let's assume Gervais does not get 6 and gets 0, Couturier gets 15 instead of 20 and Biere only gets 16 again, that is still 256 goals vs 260 from the players above last year. This team is counting on sophomore's though.

G couldn't be any worse as a whole then last year (I hope).

If Schenn plays as he showed as a rookie and Meszaros as he did two year's ago the D will be better IMO. Overall it will likely be worse.

Upside is probably what was done last year, but I expect he team to be still a good playoff team.
I expect Giroux to get more goals than last year, maybe a little less assists. He can score a lot more if he shoots more imo. Assuming that Voracek gets to the first line, he's gonna score much more than last year. Matt Read was a rookie, some people tend to think he's peaked because of his age, but I don't think he has. Progress isn't only about your age, it's about NHL experience, training, etc, which Read hadn't have before. I see him improving. Wellwood played 24 games, and he should be a NHL regular next year, how would he only score 5 goals? He'll get more than that. Harry Z may not even play with the big club this year.

That said, players don't score their goals alone, you have to consider the loss of Jagr and Carle as more than the loss of X goals. The system is also a factor, but I think it will still be very offensive.

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07-16-2012, 03:03 PM
  #42
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scoring could be a concern this season still. Cant expect career years again and the Flyers lost 30 plus goals via trade and FA. They should be better defensively however.
At the very least barring a shocking major move between now and October they will have some cap space to make a move.
It's not like they lost a 30 goal scorer, they lost 30 goals with 2 guys. That frees up 2 roster spots for new players(and players taking their roster spot, so more ice time) who will also score goals, which lowers the number a lot.

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07-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #43
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I expect Giroux to get more goals than last year, maybe a little less assists. He can score a lot more if he shoots more imo. Assuming that Voracek gets to the first line, he's gonna score much more than last year. Matt Read was a rookie, some people tend to think he's peaked because of his age, but I don't think he has. Progress isn't only about your age, it's about NHL experience, training, etc, which Read hadn't have before. I see him improving. Wellwood played 24 games, and he should be a NHL regular next year, how would he only score 5 goals? He'll get more than that. Harry Z may not even play with the big club this year.

That said, players don't score their goals alone, you have to consider the loss of Jagr and Carle as more than the loss of X goals. The system is also a factor, but I think it will still be very offensive.
I don't feel that Read has peaked, but I do feel that he may not get as many bounces as he did last year. There was a stretch where it seemed like every shot he was taking, no matter what the angle, was going in.

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07-16-2012, 03:34 PM
  #44
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Bryz aside, I do believe the Flyers will be a much better defensive team. They have to, if they want to be successful, but I really think they will. Having a healthy Grossmann for a whole year will be very important, as will L. Schenn playing like a shutdown defensemen, which I am optimistic about, Flyers seem to do well with getting reclamation projects back on track. Also, not having a stream of rookies and Lilja dressed will help too.

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07-16-2012, 04:32 PM
  #45
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Flyers seem to do well with getting reclamation projects back on track.
Not sure I agree with that....but then again I can't see to get Tibbets out of my head...

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07-16-2012, 04:48 PM
  #46
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Oh wow, a month of "good" play? Holy hell, let's pat the 51 million dollar man on the back. Hey, doesn't Brian Boucher hold the longest shutout streak ever? Let's not forget, Bryz wasn't "spectacular" in March, he just went a month without crapping the bed on a daily basis while the Flyers were steamrolling teams.

Bryz wasn't the worst player for the Flyers against the Devils, but that's not to say he didn't let in his fair share of clunkers each game. Go back and watch some tape and tell me thats a goaltender you have faith in.
....once again, from January 1 to the end of the regular season, Bryzgalov was 18-8-4 with a 2.06 GAA and .948 Save Pct. Please describe how that's just one month. People need to give it a rest with Bryzgalov. The guy played through the playoffs with a cracked bone in his foot. He should have never seen the playoffs and the fact that he did and was the sole reason the Flyers lasted as long against New Jersey as they did should speak in volumes about his ability. Christ sakes, why can't people read a news paper or look things up on the Internet? I guess it's easier to just thrown crap at a wall and see what sticks.

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07-16-2012, 05:48 PM
  #47
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....once again, from January 1 to the end of the regular season, Bryzgalov was 18-8-4 with a 2.06 GAA and .948 Save Pct. Please describe how that's just one month. People need to give it a rest with Bryzgalov. The guy played through the playoffs with a cracked bone in his foot. He should have never seen the playoffs and the fact that he did and was the sole reason the Flyers lasted as long against New Jersey as they did should speak in volumes about his ability. Christ sakes, why can't people read a news paper or look things up on the Internet? I guess it's easier to just thrown crap at a wall and see what sticks.
Nice, so the stats look good, that must mean everything must be fine and dandy because stats always tell the full story. My god, was Bryz really the reason Flyers were able to make a series last a whopping FIVE games?

I agree that I'd probably prefer not to talk about Bryz because it is such a sad story, but in a thread about expectations, I just think that a Bryz led team is perpetually in store for an early playoff exit.

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07-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #48
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I agree losing Carle will hurt, but one thing that isn't really being considered is that we're not only adding Schenn to the D but also a full season of Grossmann and hopefully Meszaros. Mez is probably a bit of a wild card, but even though we'll lose a little offense with Carle, Jagr, and JvR gone I think between Grossmann, Mez, and hopefully a little improvement from Bryz we can be better defensively.

Again, it all comes down to Bryz. If he plays well they're a contender, if he doesn't, no chance.

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07-16-2012, 09:43 PM
  #49
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There is an optimist within me that wants to give Bryzgalov the benefit of the doubt, and I pray to god that he improves greatly. But if he improves to the extent that he's capable of leading a team to a Stanley Cup victory, honestly, that would be a miracle.

We've seen Bryz play at a high level, yes, but even when he is playing well, he lets in horrible goals, is often very unattentive, is very slow moving side to side and looks extremely awkward playing the puck. Goaltending is a position where confidence makes an extreme difference, but you have to wonder if Bryz has the mental fortitude to handle the pressure of playing in the Stanley Cup final, now that he completely trashed the 2011-2012 season and his reputation in Philadelphia.

Bryz is not a normal athlete with a normal professional athlete's attitude. Seeing Bryz face the media every game made me sad to be a Flyers fan. He needs to sack up and not act like a child in front of the media and give some semblance of resolve and prove he's not as mentally fragile as I believe him to be.
This is a bold statement, Dr. Freud.

He is SC (i know, as a bakup) and WC winner, who played at the highest levels of competitions.

But talking about attitude, should you, perhaps, be more positive before the season start; and, may be (just may be), let the guy who has a history of playng well prove himself before you label him as a total failure.
I have been very critical of him and will be if needs be, but for right now he is # 1 goalie on my favorite team. He deserves a clean slate to start the season. And, by the way, he was not the reason that NJ eliminated Flyers in 5 games- you should put this criticism where it belongs.

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07-17-2012, 02:10 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
I expect Giroux to get more goals than last year, maybe a little less assists. He can score a lot more if he shoots more imo. Assuming that Voracek gets to the first line, he's gonna score much more than last year. Matt Read was a rookie, some people tend to think he's peaked because of his age, but I don't think he has. Progress isn't only about your age, it's about NHL experience, training, etc, which Read hadn't have before. I see him improving. Wellwood played 24 games, and he should be a NHL regular next year, how would he only score 5 goals? He'll get more than that. Harry Z may not even play with the big club this year.

That said, players don't score their goals alone, you have to consider the loss of Jagr and Carle as more than the loss of X goals. The system is also a factor, but I think it will still be very offensive.
Wellwood might get 8 if Harry Z/another filler does not get 3 (Sestito, Rinaldo, Holmstrom).

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