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Offseason Thread III - Laughton all the way to the bank

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Old
07-16-2012, 01:59 PM
  #726
Jray42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I could see it happening. I really don't know what the fall-out would be. Let's just play make believe for a second. Trade Voracek and Couturier (two top six forwards), Mez (top four defenseman), top flight prospects we don't really have but let's just go with Laughton and Cousins, and two firsts. That would leave the team looking like this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Read
XXX-Briere-Simmonds
Feds-Schenn-Wellwood
Rinaldo-Talbot-Sestito
Shelley

Coburn-Weber
Timonen-Schenn
Grossman-Gus/Gervais/Whomever

Sign someone still available to play second line, if you don't like Rinaldo and Sestito on the fourth line stick Harry Z in there. That team still makes the playoffs and has a lot to build on moving forward, despite the absence of the players lost. I really don't know if I'd make that trade because it is one hell of a shakeup, but it would be a good looking team if the deal went down like that. Also keep in mind teams rarely get their asking price, especially when the player may not re-sign with the team.
I don't think that's a playoff team. Especially considering I doubt Simmonds and Hartnell have asgreat of seasons as last year( hoping though), that offense is anemic.


Last edited by Jray42: 07-16-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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Old
07-16-2012, 02:00 PM
  #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
That offense suddenly looks very pedestrian IMO.....moreover no to trading Couts!
Oh yeah, big time. The offense is average at best, but in time could easily develop, and depending on who is signed to play on that second line, could be pretty potent at times. And if the defense stays healthy and Bryz doesn't **** the bed, the lack of offense won't be as noticeable. They still have some threats and can acquire more in the coming year's free agency. I didn't do any cap calculations, but I assume they'd have a good amount of space if Voracek, Mez, and Couturier went the other way, even with signing Weber. Not to mention Timonen is off the boox next season and Briere the season after. Again, I don't know if I would actually do this trade (or if the Flyers or Preds would), but I think it is worth noting that even getting rid of the key pieces to acquire Weber still leaves this team as a playoff team (IMO).

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07-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I could see it happening. I really don't know what the fall-out would be. Let's just play make believe for a second. Trade Voracek and Couturier (two top six forwards), Mez (top four defenseman), top flight prospects we don't really have but let's just go with Laughton and Cousins, and two firsts. That would leave the team looking like this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Read
XXX-Briere-Simmonds
Feds-Schenn-Wellwood
Rinaldo-Talbot-Sestito
Shelley

Coburn-Weber
Timonen-Schenn
Grossman-Gus/Gervais/Whomever

Sign someone still available to play second line, if you don't like Rinaldo and Sestito on the fourth line stick Harry Z in there. That team still makes the playoffs and has a lot to build on moving forward, despite the absence of the players lost. I really don't know if I'd make that trade because it is one hell of a shakeup, but it would be a good looking team if the deal went down like that. Also keep in mind teams rarely get their asking price, especially when the player may not re-sign with the team.
The defense looks good, but the forwards are pretty poor, to be honest. Read doesn't belong on the top line, and Fedetenko and that third line, while solid defensively, wouldn't produce enough offensive to make up for the drop-off at the top.

Basically, any deal that includes two roster forwards will hurt this team tremendously. Any deal that includes two roster forwards not named Matt Read will kill us. I can't see them including more than one of B. Schenn, Couturier, and Voracek in a package. Add in Mezsaros and Read / Laughton / etc., as well as picks, and it might be viable.

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07-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #729
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You have to remember that if you are trading for Weber, then he is going to want to come to a contender. There's no use in trading half your team for a single player.

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07-16-2012, 02:10 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
This is the exact type of deal I think we would offer. Maybe sub Meszaros with Coburn. It's going to be hard for a team to trade some of the extremely young and top potential talent for a player who will be a UFA after this year. Edmonton probably wouldn't want to move any of the big 4. The Canucks probably won't want to move Kesler and Edler in a deal for him. I have a feeling this will drag out all summer.
I think defensively that Coburn and Schenn are (almost) untouchable. Offensively Couturier and Schenn are (almost) untouchable. Giroux is untouchable.

I think that's where we stand at the moment.

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07-16-2012, 02:13 PM
  #731
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The defense looks good, but the forwards are pretty poor, to be honest. Read doesn't belong on the top line, and Fedetenko and that third line, while solid defensively, wouldn't produce enough offensive to make up for the drop-off at the top.

Basically, any deal that includes two roster forwards will hurt this team tremendously. Any deal that includes two roster forwards not named Matt Read will kill us. I can't see them including more than one of B. Schenn, Couturier, and Voracek in a package. Add in Mezsaros and Read / Laughton / etc., as well as picks, and it might be viable.
While I don't know about the deal that you're referencing.... I think that it would be pretty short-sighted to turn down a Weber deal just because of it's presumed impacts on the team next season. A Weber deal is as much about the next decade as it is about this particular season.

The Flyers have an uncanny ability to develop forwards. Their scouting in that area is tremendous. I trust our longterm ability to find 2 All Star caliber forwards (through free agency or otherwise) a whole lot more than I trust our ability to procure a defenseman of Weber's caliber.

If the Preds said, he's yours for Schenn, Voracek and a first. I think long and hard about it, then make the deal. It hurts us badly for this season, but I think it balances out the roster a whole lot better over the next several years.

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07-16-2012, 02:13 PM
  #732
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Too much for one guy.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think defensively that Coburn and Schenn are (almost) untouchable. Offensively Couturier and Schenn are (almost) untouchable. Giroux is untouchable.

I think that's where we stand at the moment.
I believe if we are trading Coburn and getting Weber back in return, he would definitely be available. Mez is also coming off back surgery, so that might scare the Preds away. He only played in one game I believe in the Devils series. That's a ton of question marks coming back for a team trading their franchise player.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:22 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I believe if we are trading Coburn and getting Weber back in return, he would definitely be available. Mez is also coming off back surgery, so that might scare the Preds away. He only played in one game I believe in the Devils series. That's a ton of question marks coming back for a team trading their franchise player.
Weber is better than Coburn, but you don't trade one of your top 2 defenders if you want enough depth to win a Cup. The goal is to add to what you have.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
I don't think that's a playoff team. Especially considering I doubt Simmonds and Hartnell have asgreat of seasons as last year( hoping though), that offense is anemic.
The offense isn't great, but that is still a playoff team. You still have one of the top guys in the league in Giroux out there and a number of complimentary players. Simmonds I see no reason why he can't duplicate his numbers, but Hartnell I agree he won't repeat. Schenn should have a solid season in his first full year out there, and there is still time to sign a guy who can score on the second line. To make the playoffs you don't need to be the best, you just need to be better than the other half of the conference. If the keys on defense stay healthy and the key guys on offense stay healthy, that's a playoff team. Maybe not a Cup contender, but certainly better than NYI, TOR, WPG, MTL, and TB. That just leaves a few of the fringe teams like NJ, CAR, BUF, and OTT, whom I think that Flyers team would be better than. They wouldn't win the Atlantic and likely wouldn't make it far in the playoffs, but I think that's a playoff team.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:26 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Weber is better than Coburn, but you don't trade one of your top 2 defenders if you want enough depth to win a Cup. The goal is to add to what you have.
This wouldn't kill our depth

Weber-Schenn
Kimmo-Mez
Grossmann-Gervias/Manning/Gus/Mab

That defense is still extremly deep and reliable. I just don't think Nashville would take on Mez with his back injury.

All experienced defenders besides the 6th position.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:31 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
This wouldn't kill our depth

Weber-Schenn
Kimmo-Mez
Grossmann-Gervias/Manning/Gus/Mab

That defense is still extremly deep and reliable. I just don't think Nashville would take on Mez with his back injury.

All experienced defenders besides the 6th position.

Extremely deep? That's one injury away from disaster--and given Mezsaros recent troubles and Timonen's age, one sustained injury seems likely.

I'd find it hard to believe Coburn gets moved, simply because he'd be the most valuable asset in the deal--which would almost certainly mean no Schenn, Couturier, or Voracek. I'd assume Nashville would prefer a young, high-end forward and complimentary top-4 defenseman to a top-pairing defenseman and a complimentary forward.

I'd do Coburn + Read + futures, but I wouldn't add any of the other forwards.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
This wouldn't kill our depth

Weber-Schenn
Kimmo-Mez
Grossmann-Gervias/Manning/Gus/Mab

That defense is still extremly deep and reliable. I just don't think Nashville would take on Mez with his back injury.

All experienced defenders besides the 6th position.
To be frank..that defense while great is more a D for somebody like Murray to devise a system around especially since the offense would be losing a great deal of depth and production. I don't see Lavi being as successful with his system with the group of forwards he would be left with at all....but that is just my take...

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:36 PM
  #739
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
This wouldn't kill our depth

Weber-Schenn
Kimmo-Mez
Grossmann-Gervias/Manning/Gus/Mab

That defense is still extremly deep and reliable. I just don't think Nashville would take on Mez with his back injury.

All experienced defenders besides the 6th position.
It's not that deep when you have Schenn on the top pair.

Weber is an upgrade on Coburn, but is he big enough of an upgrade to offer up a forward, picks, and prospects along with Coburn? Not to mention the extra $3-4M in cap space.

I'd take Weber over Coburn easily if all things are equal, but he Coburn a non-starter when you consider the overall cost. If the Flyers trade for Weber they need to find a way to do it without Coburn.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:38 PM
  #740
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Extremely deep? That's one injury away from disaster--and given Mezsaros recent troubles and Timonen's age, one sustained injury seems likely.

I'd find it hard to believe Coburn gets moved, simply because he'd be the most valuable asset in the deal--which would almost certainly mean no Schenn, Couturier, or Voracek. I'd assume Nashville would prefer a young, high-end forward and complimentary top-4 defenseman to a top-pairing defenseman and a complimentary forward.

I'd do Coburn + Read + futures, but I wouldn't add any of the other forwards.
I will admit maybe extremely deep was a bad way to put it. We would still have depth though to fill in for injuries. Lilja, MAB, GUS, and Gervais would all be there to fill in for some time if someone goes down. It wouldn't be the sexiest d group, but it would kill us if we suffer an injury or two.

Also Weber can just play 30 mins game all year for us Not entirely sarcasm though

Also there is plenty of teams in the league that if they suffer two injuries on the back end they are in trouble. The Flyers actually have NHL defenders that would be able to fill in for some time.

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Old
07-16-2012, 03:07 PM
  #741
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Jake,Mezz, 2 1sts, if not, oh well. Gutting the team for 1 defender don't make sense.

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07-16-2012, 03:12 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
It's not that deep when you have Schenn on the top pair.

Weber is an upgrade on Coburn, but is he big enough of an upgrade to offer up a forward, picks, and prospects along with Coburn? Not to mention the extra $3-4M in cap space.

I'd take Weber over Coburn easily if all things are equal, but he Coburn a non-starter when you consider the overall cost. If the Flyers trade for Weber they need to find a way to do it without Coburn.
You do know who Shea Weber is, right? He is a top three defender in the league, in a league of his own with guys like Chara and Lidstrom (R.I.P.). Coburn is good, but he is replaceable. Maybe not for next season, but switching Coburn for Weber is a HUGE upgrade over Coburn. The guy is a perennial Norris (Norse) Trophy finalist entering the prime of his career. Coburn is a serviceable top pair/top four defenseman. Whomever the Flyers lose on defense in this trade is irrelevant. Obviously you'd like to keep the better defenseman, but Weber is a massive upgrade over any of our defenders. Losing the offense as well will hurt for sure, but it will be made up for on defense. The Flyers won't be a top 5 offensive team anymore, but their defense would be one of the best.

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Old
07-16-2012, 03:26 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You do know who Shea Weber is, right?


He's that dude that smashes skulls and get's away with it....

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Old
07-16-2012, 03:28 PM
  #744
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Have we heard anything on Pronger yet?

Like anything.

He was sited at a gas station in Nashville with Elvis.

He has entered himself in the National Checker Association.

ect.


Last edited by hckyplayer8: 07-16-2012 at 03:33 PM. Reason: grammar
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07-16-2012, 03:29 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Have we've heard anything on Pronger yet?

Like anything.

He was sited at a gas station in Nashville with Elvis.

He has entered himself in the National Checker Association.

ect.
Last I heard he was in St Louis and the speculation was that he would never come back to the state of PA...

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07-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #746
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Last I heard he was in St Louis and the speculation was that he would never come back to the state of PA...
So the moving to St. Louis tweet was indeed the last we heard of him?

Ugh.

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Old
07-16-2012, 05:01 PM
  #747
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Respectfully i disagree with some of this talk about our offense being mediocre ? We had our fair share of 20+ goal scorers last season ? and i expect that # to be BETTER this season.Roo played with a bad wrist and still put up great numbers.I expect Coots to get more time 5 on 5 and perhaps on the PP, Shenn should certainly score MUCH more this year, as well as Jake. And i can see Mez scoring more from the point along with Coby.......I agree Harts had a killer year last season, but remember he started off terrible and folks were ready to see him benched, traded etc during the 1st 3rd of the season .If he can start off a little better he is capable of putting together another nice season in my opinion ?I am one person i suppose who see's this cup half full and not half empty for now......





3

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Old
07-16-2012, 05:21 PM
  #748
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3rd in the league in scoring with a team highly consisted of young, immature players.

Offense is totally our issue.

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07-16-2012, 06:50 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Just woke up from a dream where we acquired Mike Green.

Now I'm thinking about it, and I dont think that would be a bad move at all. I dont think the Caps would ask for the moon either.

What would you guys give up for him?
Mike Green looked like a shell of his former self last season.

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:00 PM
  #750
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NO WAY will weber cost what is being siad bye guys like EK that is crazy talk he can be had in the end for half that or less and we have been trading partners in the past with the preds so get it done homer but dont be stupid and offer everybody when it will only take roster player prospect and a pick or 2..

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