HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-13 is a transition year. Bergevin is focusing on 2013-14.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-16-2012, 03:01 PM
  #1
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,402
vCash: 500
2012-13 is a transition year. Bergevin is focusing on 2013-14.

The more I think about it, the more I believe Bergevin won't make any other significant move this summer (unless he can win the race for someone like Nash or Ryan, which I doubt). Why? Because next year will be a "transition" season.

I see the moves he made so far, and I don't see any major improvement from last year. Sure, our bottom 6 is more intimidating, but that won't make the team win many more games. I expect the team to do slightly better than last year because they can't do worse, but I don't expect a significant improvement. Why?

- The top 6 is really much weaker than the top 10 teams in the league.
- Our bottom 6 is tough but cannot contribute much offensively.
- Our defense corp is solid, but with a few question marks because of lack of experience (Emelin, Diaz, Weber) and injuries (Markov).

I'm sure Bergevin and the whole management are aware of all that. I actually think they will leave the team like that on purpose. Why?

- Because they are waiting for the big annoying contracts to end (Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque). Or not necessarily to end, but at less to have one less year left so they become easier to buy out, bury in the minor or trade.

- Because the prospects are not ready yet. Many of them will begin their pro career in the AHL while a player like Galchenyuk will need one more year in the OHL. Maybe it's not a good idea to acquire an expensive UFA or player on a long term contract via trade at this point, since it would leave no spot open for the youngsters next year. I think we can expect players like Leblanc, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis to earn a spot or compete for a spot in the NHL roster as soon as 2013-14.

- Because Pacioretty and Desharnais will need to be re-signed next year. Both will get big raises, so it makes sense to leave some space under the cap.

- Because all of those considered to be the "extra players" are on one year contracts. Here I'm talking about Nokelainen, Armstrong, Geoffrion, Palushaj, Blunden, Bouillon, Weber, St-Denis and Nash. I think none of these players belong in the long term plans (unless they impress greatly this year). Clearly, most of these players will be released next summer and replaced by prospects.

- And most importantly, because it's "YEAR 1" of the Bergevin/Therrien regime. No matter how bad the team does next year, they can't do worse and they will be granted a free pass. If there's a moment when a team can afford to be in a "transition year", it's on Year One of a new regime. Therefore, that would also mean the Habs would get a high pick in a next draft, a draft where players from Quebec are expected to do well. Adding another high end prospect certainly wouldn't hurt.

- I could add that there could be a strike or lock-out this year. One more reason to make a gamble and don't invest too much for 2012-13.

So while I expect some exciting games next year, I won't be deceived if they still get bad results. I actually expect it. My eyes and hopes are already turned toward 2013-14, and I'm pretty sure that Bergevin and his staff are focusing on this too.

P.S. Mods, feel free to merge if you think that doesn't deserve its own thread.

DDs not undersized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:02 PM
  #2
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,661
vCash: 500
Welcome to reality, where most of us have been for quite a long time. But you are wrong, because 2013-2014 will also be a transition year.

SeriousHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #3
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,338
vCash: 500
Seems like a waste of a free pass to me.

Bergevin has a chance to clean the slate, get rid of players we don't need or make trades to get younger players for vets and instead he decides to hibernate for the winter.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:18 PM
  #4
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Seems like a waste of a free pass to me.

Bergevin has a chance to clean the slate, get rid of players we don't need or make trades to get younger players for vets and instead he decides to hibernate for the winter.
I am sure Bergevin is having a hard time stopping the rival GMs from making countless offers for Kaberle, Gomez, Bourque, Markov and Gionta.

SeriousHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:21 PM
  #5
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
I am sure Bergevin is having a hard time stopping the rival GMs from making countless offers for Kaberle, Gomez, Bourque, Markov and Gionta.
And what is wrong with Gionta? Guy has putt up goals since joinging us?

If you include regular season games and playoff games, Gionta has scored 77 goals in 200 games. That is about 31 goals per 82 games.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:22 PM
  #6
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,130
vCash: 500
So many things went wrong last year that I don't blame Bergevin for sitting back and evaluating the team this year.

Will Eller make the jump to a #2 centerman?
Will DD solidify himself as a #2 or #1 centerman?
Will Cole hold up?
Will Kaberle bounce back?
Will Markov regain his form?
Will Bourque bounce back to his 27 goal/year self?
Will Gionta be the 29 goal guy he was before or is he going to be an injury plagued, 15 goal winger?
Is Gomez truly done?
Will PK, Diaz, Emelin continue to get better?
Can Gally make the jump this year or will he need another year?
Will Pleks have a rebound season?
Is Weber an NHL dman or an AHLer?

There are a lot of question marks.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:24 PM
  #7
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
And what is wrong with Gionta? Guy has putt up goals since joinging us?

If you include regular season games and playoff games, Gionta has scored 77 goals in 200 games. That is about 31 goals per 82 games.
I simply don't understand the criticism towards Gio. The guy has led the team in goals in the 2 years he was healthy. He's a hard worker, fierce competitor and has been good in the playoffs. Is it because he's captain and the Koivu fans hate that? I don't get it.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:27 PM
  #8
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I simply don't understand the criticism towards Gio. The guy has led the team in goals in the 2 years he was healthy. He's a hard worker, fierce competitor and has been good in the playoffs. Is it because he's captain and the Koivu fans hate that? I don't get it.
Nah I think its a size thing, but who knows. The funny thing is while Giotna is only 5'7, he is pretty gritty, had like 80 hits 2 years ago, while it doesn't mean much, it shows that is grinding in the corners.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:30 PM
  #9
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I simply don't understand the criticism towards Gio. The guy has led the team in goals in the 2 years he was healthy. He's a hard worker, fierce competitor and has been good in the playoffs. Is it because he's captain and the Koivu fans hate that? I don't get it.
He has two years left on a rich contract. We won't win with him under his current contract, so the best course of action is to trade him before we lose him in free agency.

SeriousHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #10
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
He has two years left on a rich contract. We won't win with him under his current contract, so the best course of action is to trade him before we lose him in free agency.
How do you figure "we won't win with him under current contract"?

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 03:47 PM
  #11
habsfanatics
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
How do you figure "we won't win with him under current contract"?
Barring a miracle, it's highly unlikely, no?

I agree with the op, the terrible contracts tie MB's hands, the last thing he wants to do is sign another.

We have got 20 plus million tied up in mostly junk, maybe more. The correct decision is to let those contracts expire before creating more.

Gomez 7+ junk
Bourque just under 4 junk
Kabelre 4+ junk
Markov just under 6, Could be junk, could be awesome.
Gionta 5m not junk, but not a
Game breaker, don't mind GIo much, but he isn't the type to generate much offense on his own.

In two years our young guys will be
Improved and then it will be time to add pieces

habsfanatics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:01 PM
  #12
RC51
Registered User
 
RC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,651
vCash: 500
Yes 2012-13 is a transition year.
ok first, for the habs not to improve this year the exact same things must happen
A ton of injuries to important players AGAIN. Markov out all year again, forcing habs to over play some d-men.
Gomez must play at least 60 games on the first 2 lines and yet another big fat 0, the Coach refuses to take him out of the lineup all year.
A ton of games lost by 1 goal AGAIN.
All the NEW Gm,coaches make NO difference to the Habs and work ethic.
Going forward, the habs now have a good set of prospects. Almost all need that 1 year in Hamilton before the call up.
Gomez and Kaberle contracts ( that NOBODY wants) will need more time to get ride of ( and that all depends on the new CBA)

Can't you see this coming. 1 year more of transition hockey, might make the playoffs but at lease a bit better then last year. probable finish 4-6 point out of the playoffs.

In 2013-14 , well now things will look very different.
Gomez Kaberle gone ( 12mil in cap space gained)
4-5 new rookies enter the lineup changing the habs for sure.
The best of the current team still under contracts.
don't forget that 12mil to spend will get the habs 2 good players.
So for that 2013-14 season the habs could have 7 new players and good quality players added to the already good quality core.

If the Habs rush the prospects too soon it's NOT a good thing.
Let them learn, let them ramp up at normal speed in Hamilton.
Try a few mid-late in this year to give them a taste of the real NHL speed.

All this without ANY trade MB might do to help.
I might add that the Habs have IN HAND a few extra draft picks again in 2013. Timmins went NUTS this year, he just might go NUTS again in 2013.

Habs did NOT lose any players to UFA signings to new teams.
So some teams lost big time, those teams won't be as strong next year for sure. Most of the defections left the EST to go out West.

No way the Habs finish last again. NO WAY

RC51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:01 PM
  #13
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Barring a miracle, it's highly unlikely, no?
And that is in spite of Gionta, not because of him. Gio is a fine player, one of the many pieces we might want to keep to be competitive. He ain't a game breaker, but then again, you better fire a lot of players if you want only to hold game breakers.

Quote:
I agree with the op, the terrible contracts tie MB's hands, the last thing he wants to do is sign another.
Somewhat agreed. Except for Gomez, we can potentially trade any of them to a needy team if they get going reasonably.

Quote:
We have got 20 plus million tied up in mostly junk, maybe more. The correct decision is to let those contracts expire before creating more.

Gomez 7+ junk
Bourque just under 4 junk
Kabelre 4+ junk
Markov just under 6, Could be junk, could be awesome.
Gionta 5m not junk, but not a
Game breaker, don't mind GIo much, but he isn't the type to generate much offense on his own.
Disagree except for Gomez. Bourque is big and responsible defensively, Kaberle might be unidimensional, but he ain't useless. Just dump Gomez.

Markov ain't junk, nor is Gio. Kaberle and Bourque are sub-par, but not beyond salvage.

Quote:
In two years our young guys will be Improved and then it will be time to add pieces
Agreed. And the beauty of it is, in 2 years Gio, Gomez, Markov & Kaberle will be off the books, so we can buy whomever we want.

But in the meanwhile, why can't we try to make work what we have and offer a quality spectacle? Fans don't deserve washing your hands off the show just yet.

Plus, if you prove you can be a bit competitive, you might get extra return for all the parts you might want to trade within the next years. You sure won't make Kab or Gio more desirable if you make them play a crappy team with crappy results.

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:02 PM
  #14
Patccmoi
Registered User
 
Patccmoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,057
vCash: 500
I only hope that Bergevin is smarter than Burke and realize that he should take his time to try to win instead of going on crazy trades to try to improve ASAP and ending up with a bit of a mess of a team while trading away picks that turned into Seguin... I'm not really worried though since it seems to be exactly what he is doing.

I expect next year to be a transition year, 2013-2014 will likely also be more of a transition in the sense that we should be expanding our core for the next 3-5 years with the addition of some of Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Leblanc, etc. to the NHL team and they will get their feet wet in the NHL for a full season hopefully (maybe not all, but the best of them at the time). Do your best to win with what you got, but don't sacrifice young talent for vets.

In 2014-2015 is where we should try trading/bidding for some star player and actually aim at being a top team. At this point, hopefully some of our youth will have showed their worth at the NHL level and you could trade 1-2 of them and some picks for star players that are on the market and could help you win in the next 2-3 years (before Price or PK's contract start reaching their end). We'll also have a lot more cap space available with contracts like Gomez, Gionta and Kaberle coming off the books.

Patccmoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:02 PM
  #15
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Nah I think its a size thing, but who knows. The funny thing is while Giotna is only 5'7, he is pretty gritty, had like 80 hits 2 years ago, while it doesn't mean much, it shows that is grinding in the corners.
Funny because I'm one of the more "we have to get bigger/tougher" guys on the board and have no issue with Gio. He's a small guy but he's built like a tank. I really like him...and he's our captain so I support him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
He has two years left on a rich contract. We won't win with him under his current contract, so the best course of action is to trade him before we lose him in free agency.
I don't get this. He has won before. Why can't we win with him? He has a rich contract...and so does Cole....and Markov and so many other players on this team.

I think he has a good amount of hockey left in him. Unless there was an overpayment, I wouldn' trade him.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:11 PM
  #16
MaxLacoste
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal
Posts: 204
vCash: 500
I won't mind if we take the year off. There is high end prospects throught all the first round and possibly two franchises players (Jones and Mackinnon). We're gonna see a the trade deadline if we can fetch some 1st rounders ours veterans. Anyway the future look bright for Montreal (once the junk list before is gone).

MaxLacoste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:19 PM
  #17
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
This is the price to pay for being content with being mediocre year in, year out.

It takes time to build a perennial cup contender/Stanley cup champion, and that's what the Montreal canadiens are all about.

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:24 PM
  #18
76ftw
24
 
76ftw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,548
vCash: 50
And then when we make the playoffs this year we'll bump this one....

76ftw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:25 PM
  #19
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,277
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Welcome to reality, where most of us have been for quite a long time. But you are wrong, because 2013-2014 will also be a transition year.
/Thread.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:40 PM
  #20
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
And then when we make the playoffs this year we'll bump this one....
Actually, I think they will still compete for a playoff spot. Who knows, Therrien could do miracles and create a new momentum and bring this team in the playoffs. I think they could finish anywhere between 7 and 15. But I think it's better to start with low expectations because on paper, this is not a very strong team.

But one of the reason why I like hockey is that anything can happen.

DDs not undersized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:46 PM
  #21
AllanMTL46
Alexei BOOM Emelin
 
AllanMTL46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ste-Agathe, Lotb.
Country: Canada
Posts: 680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So many things went wrong last year that I don't blame Bergevin for sitting back and evaluating the team this year.

Will Eller make the jump to a #2 centerman?
Will DD solidify himself as a #2 or #1 centerman?
Will Cole hold up?
Will Kaberle bounce back?
Will Markov regain his form?
Will Bourque bounce back to his 27 goal/year self?
Will Gionta be the 29 goal guy he was before or is he going to be an injury plagued, 15 goal winger?
Is Gomez truly done?
Will PK, Diaz, Emelin continue to get better?
Can Gally make the jump this year or will he need another year?
Will Pleks have a rebound season?
Is Weber an NHL dman or an AHLer?

There are a lot of question marks.
This. If most of these question marks can be positively answered, it's going to be a totally different story.

AllanMTL46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:47 PM
  #22
76ftw
24
 
76ftw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,548
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Actually, I think they will still compete for a playoff spot. Who knows, Therrien could do miracles and create a new momentum and bring this team in the playoffs. I think they could finish anywhere between 7 and 15. But I think it's better to start with low expectations because on paper, this is not a very strong team.

But one of the reason why I like hockey is that anything can happen.
I highly doubt we will be below 12th in the East, but of course it's July 16th so what do we know? I think with a new coach and an actual system, healthy Markov etc... we will be around 10-6th.

76ftw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:48 PM
  #23
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,813
vCash: 500
It WILL BE a transition year.

However... everything can happen in today's NHL.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:50 PM
  #24
76ftw
24
 
76ftw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,548
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
It WILL BE a transition year.

However... everything can happen in today's NHL.
How can you say with certainty that it will be a transition year than say however you never know. Kind of contradicting

76ftw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2012, 04:55 PM
  #25
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
How can you say with certainty that it will be a transition year than say however you never know. Kind of contradicting
Errhh...fact.

Well, I was referring to the playoffs.

Transition doesn't necessarily imply lack of succes. It just means that hopes have to be lowered.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.