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Barclay's Center & Brooklyn/Queens Talk Part III

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:45 AM
  #51
blitzkriegs
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Originally Posted by BorzNYI View Post
Tweets from Botta on his Bklyn/Bettman story:

Bettman to @SBJSBD on possibly changing his tune from recent years on #Isles in Brooklyn: "I didnít know anything about it." (cont.)


Bettman on Barclays: ďIt was still being built. I hadnít been to see it, hadnít done any market research. I hadnít polled many fans.Ē

Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Now that he has seen Barclays Center, Bettman on #Isles in Brooklyn: "It's something we'd have to look at." @SBJSBD
Look, the NHL constantly tracks the "situation" and knows the current and future options of the club. They don't state it publicly nor should they.

However, they will begin going public with hints since there's no movement with Nassau.

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07-16-2012, 10:49 AM
  #52
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I have to disagree. You can't judge anything by crappy preseason hockey. Habs-Bruins doesn't even sell out our 10k seat metro centre for a preseason game here in Halifax.

You can't infer demand for a superior product by the demand for an inferior version of it. Surely to god, the multi-milllionaire business men involved in all this are smarter and basing decisions on a lot more than a crappy pre-season game.
Isn't the game on a weeknight during the World Series?

I'm with you, the game has some meaning but since most people don't show for preseason games in their own rink, I'm not expecting this to be treated as a baseline for interest or attendance. Rather, Barclays understanding how the building operates for a NHL hockey game.

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07-16-2012, 11:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Isn't the game on a weeknight during the World Series?

I'm with you, the game has some meaning but since most people don't show for preseason games in their own rink, I'm not expecting this to be treated as a baseline for interest or attendance. Rather, Barclays understanding how the building operates for a NHL hockey game.
the Isles/Devs at Barclays? scheduled for Oct 2ish.. so could be during playoff baseball but def won't be World Series...

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07-16-2012, 11:12 AM
  #54
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the Isles/Devs at Barclays? scheduled for Oct 2ish.. so could be during playoff baseball but def won't be World Series...
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/important_dates.jsp

MLB regular season ends October 3, wild card playoffs are on the 5th. So it should have no impact on the Devils Isles game unless Mets or Yanks are fighting for a spot at the end.

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07-16-2012, 11:41 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Isn't the game on a weeknight during the World Series?

I'm with you, the game has some meaning but since most people don't show for preseason games in their own rink, I'm not expecting this to be treated as a baseline for interest or attendance. Rather, Barclays understanding how the building operates for a NHL hockey game.
That makes a lot more sense.

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07-16-2012, 12:14 PM
  #56
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100% of crap is still crap, that's the problem with staying a tenant in a run-down Coliseum. My suspicion is taking a portion of the cut on 41 dates at the new place with all its extra revenue generating aspects is likely similar in terms of revenue and not enough either way to move the needle.

Being a tenant in the new building doesn't get him a payday. Being the primary tenant in the old, run-down building clearly doesn't get him a payday. Either way, being a tenant in Barclays doesn't make sense and staying the status quo doesn't make sense either. That's the point I was making. Neither drives enough cash to him.
$20/parking at concerts that sell, all revenue from concessions and everything, if we're averaging 10,000 per game is crap, but our crap means more money (crap money) than the gilded coin that Wang gets.

If Wang makes more in crap money than shiny gilded money, and the stinky money spends the same......I think I take the stinky stuff if it spends the same. NVMC offers more stinky money than gilded wow money.

But by the tone, I think you still take less. The problem I think you see is that SOMETHING HAS TO GET DONE, and we have a finality staring at us - something CAN get done in Nassau leaving him with wealth and profitability; nothing can get done leaving him more than a tenant and essentially a SERF in Brooklyn.

So the only answers for a profitable team are Nasau and wait or sell to Ratner.

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07-16-2012, 12:51 PM
  #57
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https://twitter.com/ChrisBottaNHL/st...15447420690433

#Isles still hoping for offers from Queens and Suffolk. My take: Queens highly unlikely as of now. Suffolk could dance.

https://twitter.com/GreenLanternJet/...15639406571520

@ChrisBottaNHL Do you think Suffolk would have to be completely privately financed? County is $500 million in the red. ‪#Isles

I think Queens is still more likely than Suffolk.

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07-16-2012, 12:57 PM
  #58
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Suffolk isn't 500m in the red. That is a three year projection, from a new and inexperienced County Executive that is looking for major union concessions.

Not saying there isn't a fiscal problem, it's just way over blown. Suffolk is a million times better off financially than Nassau.

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07-16-2012, 01:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
$20/parking at concerts that sell, all revenue from concessions and everything, if we're averaging 10,000 per game is crap, but our crap means more money (crap money) than the gilded coin that Wang gets.

If Wang makes more in crap money than shiny gilded money, and the stinky money spends the same......I think I take the stinky stuff if it spends the same. NVMC offers more stinky money than gilded wow money.

But by the tone, I think you still take less. The problem I think you see is that SOMETHING HAS TO GET DONE, and we have a finality staring at us - something CAN get done in Nassau leaving him with wealth and profitability; nothing can get done leaving him more than a tenant and essentially a SERF in Brooklyn.

So the only answers for a profitable team are Nasau and wait or sell to Ratner.
Point is he doesn't make enough at either venue. There is nothing to be done at the current Nassau venue without a serious capital investment that he's not going to make because it doesn't pay for itself. The current situation, regardless of the lease, doesn't make enough.

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07-16-2012, 01:28 PM
  #60
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Point is he doesn't make enough at either venue. There is nothing to be done at the current Nassau venue without a serious capital investment that he's not going to make because it doesn't pay for itself. The current situation, regardless of the lease, doesn't make enough.
I think Wang MUST get involved in the full version of AY project to make Brooklyn a long term option. Given how he will be the 3rd party in Barclays, not getting involved in AY would likely make brooklyn unviable. Not that the New Nassau Order will likely be any different.

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07-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #61
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I think Wang MUST get involved in the full version of AY project to make Brooklyn a long term option. Given how he will be the 3rd party in Barclays, not getting involved in AY would likely make brooklyn unviable. Not that the New Nassau Order will likely be any different.
Which is why it is more logical that he will sell.

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07-16-2012, 02:19 PM
  #62
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Which is why it is more logical that he will sell.
Which would be wonderful cause with Mike Repole now shut out of the Mets with the Madoff thing resolved you have a billionare die-hard Mets fan/sports fan who got into horse racing as a neophyte and is making bank off of it and earning respect from insiders. Don't think he sacarfices a bit on public legacy to get a piece of NY sports history? This guy is sitting on billions, is amking money off whatever hobby he picks up, think he gives a **** if he's not a developer? As long as he can operate to a full budget and not have losses (i.e., a favorable lease), he's a top candidate.

And of course Pokhorov and Ratner would have some interest as would Peltz (who went after the Devils for a bit).

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07-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
Point is he doesn't make enough at either venue. There is nothing to be done at the current Nassau venue without a serious capital investment that he's not going to make because it doesn't pay for itself. The current situation, regardless of the lease, doesn't make enough.
It doesn't pay for itself?

He'd outlay $200M-$300M and receive more revenue, correct?

Will a better arena increase business?
Will $10M more come in annually with a better arena and more revenue streams? (the whole point)
Will it last long term?
Will $10M more revenue add up in 20 years?
Are there significant tax breaks for investing in "betterment" or "capital improvements"?
Does $10M/year plus tax breaks equal out to $200M in 20 years?

Now add up the increases in cable revenue, additional dates for concerts and events the NEW gets over the OLD, the better deal he likely gets for outlaying this massive capital expenditure, the improved economy in a few years......

how can he not recoup his investment? I guess in the age of instant gratification......


Oh, now add a caveat: what if he renews the lease after agreeing before 2015. He owns the right to develop all Coliseum property. LANDLORD. More revenue.

I could go on.

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07-16-2012, 02:44 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
Which is why it is more logical that he will sell.
That's a possibility. But I don't think he can get much out of it if he does so to Ratner in 2015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Which would be wonderful cause with Mike Repole now shut out of the Mets with the Madoff thing resolved you have a billionare die-hard Mets fan/sports fan who got into horse racing as a neophyte and is making bank off of it and earning respect from insiders. Don't think he sacarfices a bit on public legacy to get a piece of NY sports history? This guy is sitting on billions, is amking money off whatever hobby he picks up, think he gives a **** if he's not a developer? As long as he can operate to a full budget and not have losses (i.e., a favorable lease), he's a top candidate.

And of course Pokhorov and Ratner would have some interest as would Peltz (who went after the Devils for a bit).
IF the Isles move to Queens in 2015, I think the Mets will get 50% of the Isles just by picking up 50% of the costs in a Citi Field arena. Then Wang can sell the other 50% by 2030.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
It doesn't pay for itself?

He'd outlay $200M-$300M and receive more revenue, correct?

Will a better arena increase business?
Will $10M more come in annually with a better arena and more revenue streams? (the whole point)
Will it last long term?
Will $10M more revenue add up in 20 years?
Are there significant tax breaks for investing in "betterment" or "capital improvements"?
Does $10M/year plus tax breaks equal out to $200M in 20 years?

Now add up the increases in cable revenue, additional dates for concerts and events the NEW gets over the OLD, the better deal he likely gets for outlaying this massive capital expenditure, the improved economy in a few years......

how can he not recoup his investment? I guess in the age of instant gratification......


Oh, now add a caveat: what if he renews the lease after agreeing before 2015. He owns the right to develop all Coliseum property. LANDLORD. More revenue.

I could go on.
Only true IF the current RFQ is taken off the table. Even then, the restrictive TOH zoning makes it inviable. Also Murray is at the TOH helm until November 2013.

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Old
07-16-2012, 03:23 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Isn't the game on a weeknight during the World Series?

I'm with you, the game has some meaning but since most people don't show for preseason games in their own rink, I'm not expecting this to be treated as a baseline for interest or attendance. Rather, Barclays understanding how the building operates for a NHL hockey game.
The latter is what I wrote "It's a test to determine if it's worth it to Barclays/NHL and if it can acommodate a team as well as a symbolic statement event for the fans." But you're kidding yourself if you think the powers that be won't be judging this more than lightly. This game is market research. Bottom line is why risk a bad turnout and turn them off? NYI fans can't afford that luxury and need all the help they can get. A good showing will go a lot further in keeping NYI local than a bad one will. If it goes well, more games at Barclay's will be scheduled. If it doesn't........

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07-16-2012, 03:25 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BorzNYI View Post
Tweets from Botta on his Bklyn/Bettman story:

Bettman to @SBJSBD on possibly changing his tune from recent years on #Isles in Brooklyn: "I didnít know anything about it." (cont.)


Bettman on Barclays: ďIt was still being built. I hadnít been to see it, hadnít done any market research. I hadnít polled many fans.Ē

Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Now that he has seen Barclays Center, Bettman on #Isles in Brooklyn: "It's something we'd have to look at." @SBJSBD
Ya just know the headline in 3 months will be BETTMAN LOVES BROOKLYN!!!!

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07-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #67
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IF the Isles move to Queens in 2015, I think the Mets will get 50% of the Isles just by picking up 50% of the costs in a Citi Field arena. Then Wang can sell the other 50% by 2030.


I'd be on board with this pipedream in a second

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07-16-2012, 04:49 PM
  #68
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Ugh I hope they don't move to suffolk. Going further east only makes us more of an afterthought. we need to move west about 20 miles.

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07-16-2012, 04:54 PM
  #69
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I'd be on board with this pipedream in a second
To be clear, a Queens arena has to be a publicly funded one where the Isles and Sterling each picks up half of the money that needs to be paid back, including interest.

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07-16-2012, 04:57 PM
  #70
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Ugh I hope they don't move to suffolk. Going further east only makes us more of an afterthought. we need to move west about 20 miles.
And going 20 miles west makes this team an afterthought for some people in Suffolk. you know how some people are out here in Suffolk .

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07-16-2012, 05:02 PM
  #71
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Ugh I hope they don't move to suffolk. Going further east only makes us more of an afterthought. we need to move west about 20 miles.
https://twitter.com/ChrisBottaNHL/st...15447420690433

#Isles‬ still hoping for offers from Queens and Suffolk. My take: Queens highly unlikely as of now. Suffolk could dance.

I guess Chris is thinking it's highly unlikely to float tax exempt bonds to accommodate the Isles. As far as Suffolk, Chris may think that IF there is enough zoning for the Heartland project, the Isles may go for it.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/t...neys-1.3832262

Wednesday July 11, 2012 5:37 PM

De Nicolaís office will represent the townís interest on Heartland matters, but Heartland developer Gerald Wolkoff will reimburse the town for all costs, Cicale said, adding that De Nicolaís hourly rate is being negotiated.

Cicale also said the move to appoint new outside counsel is a sign that things are progressing in the early stages of the Heartland development, which has been stalled for some time due to disagreements about labor, financing and who should have to foot the bill for road improvements outside the site.


It sounds like what will be built in Heartland is being negotiated. Given it's still early stages I think Wang's better off not banking on it.

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07-16-2012, 05:03 PM
  #72
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To be clear, a Queens arena has to be a publicly funded one where the Isles and Sterling each picks up half of the money that needs to be paid back, including interest.
good point. would Queens politicians go for that idea and more so would politicians in NYC go for that seeing as how Brooklyn already has an arena thats done?

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07-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #73
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NYS state failed to get a convention center in the new Casino in Aqueduct. If it were to be built There was going to be massive development connecting the old Atlantic Avenue Railroad that cuts through Queens from JFK to rego park queens.

The Islanders can jump in a propose something to the Resorts World Casino which is owned by Genting which is desperate for another destination to move right next door to there casino. If there are talks of Belmont and once again Wang would have to deal with Nassau County. Aqueduct race and Queens would be welcoming in Wang and the Islanders with open arms. Belt Parkyway is right there as well as the Van Wyck Expressway. He can help build the rail way and connect Isles fans via the JFK Monorail to Supthin Blvd Jamaica Station LIRR. More visitors to the casino, New home for the Islanders and Wang can turn the place into a convention center when the Isles are not playing. The Race Track from the Conduit side is only .25 miles to the monorail. they can Easily add an extension.

Also the A train stops at Aqueduct. Fans can connect to the JFK Monorail from Jamaica Station and get off 1 stop to JFK Howard Beach and connect to the A train 1 stop and the MTA can also set up express bus service during games connecting fans from the monorail to the stadium.

Regardless, The Aqueduct Casino is NYC's baby and NYS has alot invested in its success. Too many politicians put there reputations on the line to see it fail and they already are making $$$$$ off the casino taxes alone. It would be wise if Charles Wang bypassed all this nonsense and gave Governor Cuomo a long over due phone call.


Last edited by Dutch Frost: 07-16-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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07-16-2012, 06:38 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
It doesn't pay for itself?

He'd outlay $200M-$300M and receive more revenue, correct?

Will a better arena increase business?
Will $10M more come in annually with a better arena and more revenue streams? (the whole point)
Will it last long term?
Will $10M more revenue add up in 20 years?
Are there significant tax breaks for investing in "betterment" or "capital improvements"?
Does $10M/year plus tax breaks equal out to $200M in 20 years?

Now add up the increases in cable revenue, additional dates for concerts and events the NEW gets over the OLD, the better deal he likely gets for outlaying this massive capital expenditure, the improved economy in a few years......

how can he not recoup his investment? I guess in the age of instant gratification......


Oh, now add a caveat: what if he renews the lease after agreeing before 2015. He owns the right to develop all Coliseum property. LANDLORD. More revenue.

I could go on.
You're the only person on the planet that thinks this.

Why would Wang drop ~$250M on someone else's property? Just so he can earn a measly $10M more a year? That's nuts. There are a lot better returns for $250M than upgrading a building he doesn't own.

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07-16-2012, 06:52 PM
  #75
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You're the only person on the planet that thinks this.

Why would Wang drop ~$250M on someone else's property? Just so he can earn a measly $10M more a year? That's nuts. There are a lot better returns for $250M than upgrading a building he doesn't own.
I continue to laugh at how preposterous some people seem to be. what these people fail to realize is if wang was going or willing to pluck down his own money for a renovation or new arena wouldn't he have done so already? he was willing to do it but only if he got his lighthouse. no lighthouse no new or renovated arena. simple as that.

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