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Does Steve Mason have any value?

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Old
07-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iridium128 View Post
Columbus will make any goalie look bad. I think he just needs a new team to play for, I'd trade Frolik for him.
You make that comment but then look at the stats.

Mason, in 46 games posted a 3.39 GAA and a .894 SV%


Their 3rd string goalie(Sanford) that was signed for the AHL in 36 games posted a 2.60 GAA and a .911 SV%.

Their minor league goalie(York) in 11 games posted 2.30 GAA and a .920 SV %.

Yes, Mason in a better team might beable to put up better numbers but how does Sanford and York put up decent looking numbers on a same Columbus team?

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07-15-2012, 08:54 PM
  #77
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Mason + 7th round pick/c prospect for Khabibulin and Omark?

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07-15-2012, 09:01 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punk_o_holic View Post
You make that comment but then look at the stats.

Mason, in 46 games posted a 3.39 GAA and a .894 SV%


Their 3rd string goalie(Sanford) that was signed for the AHL in 36 games posted a 2.60 GAA and a .911 SV%.

Their minor league goalie(York) in 11 games posted 2.30 GAA and a .920 SV %.

Yes, Mason in a better team might beable to put up better numbers but how does Sanford and York put up decent looking numbers on a same Columbus team?
I thought people was not fooled anymore by goalie stats taken on small sample size. Even mason complete season is still not a big sample enough to conclude anything. Taking his last 4 season give a better idea.

Same goes for Elliott.

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Old
07-15-2012, 09:12 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I wouldn't say that Mason is an "upgrade" over Labarbera, but I agree that Phoenix might be a good destination for him, Sean Burke might be able to get the best out of the kid.

Mason is the Doug Favell of the 21st century. On a good team with a good defensive system, he can be pretty decent... on a lousy team like C-Bus, he's lousy right along with them.
Jason LaBarbera is the worst player in the world with a one way NHL contract.

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07-15-2012, 09:56 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I thought people was not fooled anymore by goalie stats taken on small sample size. Even mason complete season is still not a big sample enough to conclude anything. Taking his last 4 season give a better idea.

Same goes for Elliott.
That only goes for cross-team comparisons. Compare Mason's year last year to Sanford's. Similar sample size and the same defense in front of them.

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07-15-2012, 10:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CodeBlue View Post
CBJ fans are adamant that it's all Mason's fault for playing so badly.
You sure?

CBJ have lots of problems in many areas of the ice, we know that.

However, Steve Mason is one of the problems. Soft goals, untimely goals (I've *never* seen a goalie give up so many goals in the first 5 minutes of a game over a couple seasons). He can still be very good at times, but it's clear to anyone who watches him that the kid's confidence is shot and so is the team's confidence in him to get it done. A change of scenery would be great for him and the CBJ.

As someone else mentioned, Mason has been outperformed by other goalies behind the same team. I'm sure that some of it feeds itself. Team has no confidence in Mason, Mason has no confidence in team, etc. Add in the various goalie coaches, new pads, pad sizes and..well, you just have a guy and a team looking for excuses for poor performance. Sooner or later, you just have to stop pucks. Mason had a hot 2-3 months. He started to decline in late 2009, which was blamed on mono, then he was so so the rest of that season and was lit up by DET. He really hasn't been all that great since January/February 2009 or so. He shows flashes of greatness, so you want to go through the growing pains and hope he develops, but it just hasn't been able to work out. Giving him the job, the contract, threatening the job..new coaches...nothing's helped. Time for both to move on.

I'd like to see the CBJ send him down. If he gets claimed, great, if not, great, let him develop. I'd rather go into the season with just about anyone and Bob than Mason and Bob. Even Huet.

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07-15-2012, 10:10 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Mason + 7th round pick/c prospect for Khabibulin and Omark?
Done. No takebacks.

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07-15-2012, 10:11 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
That only goes for cross-team comparisons. Compare Mason's year last year to Sanford's. Similar sample size and the same defense in front of them.
The fact that the sample size is similar doesnt change the fact that it is too small to be highly significant.

The luck factor alone could very well explain the difference between Sandford and Mason last year stats.

Even the same goalie, playing exactly the same game, behind the same team, facing almost the same opposition could see his saves % have a lot of variance between the 30 first games and last 30 games of a season. But once we take 200-300 games (4-5 seasons) into account, the bad and good luck cancel out and the skill become the most significant factor to determine saves %.

In Short Mason is probably not as good as his Vezina candidate season, and not as bad as last season show. He is still a young NHL goalie well ahead of the average goalie development for his age and should reach his peak in 2-6 years from now.

Really, the big issue about his value is his contract and the current NHL goalie market. It will be difficult to give him a qualifying offer when you can have a better goalie for almost half the price (Theodore, Smith, Vokoun?) If Mason was paid as other goalie of his age usually are (600 000$ 1 500 000$) his value would be positive.


Last edited by palindrom: 07-15-2012 at 10:29 PM.
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Old
07-16-2012, 02:50 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Would Columbus fans have any interest in Mason for LaBarbera (purely for contract readons) and a solid, cheap, young depth D like Schlemko? Perhaps "B" futures if you prefer? Guys like Goncharov or Tikhonov? Maybe mid to late picks?

Basically, a cheaper contract and some long shots.
I agree that PHX would be a great spot for Mason (for the same reasons that you and others have mentioned).

I think "Mason for LaBarbera and Chris Summers" would make sense for both teams.

PHX can keep Schlemko with Klesla on the bottom pair while their great young d-men develop in the AHL (Stone, Rundblad, Gormley). CLB can keep Ryan Murray in Juniors, and it gives them the flexibility to send John Moore to the AHL as well.

PHX
OEL-Michalek
Yandle-Morris
Schlemko-Klesla
(Stone / Rundblad / Gormley - AHL or injury callups)

CLB
JMFJ-Wisniewski
Tyutin-Nikitin
Summers-Aucoin
(Moore / Savard / Prout / Goloubef - AHL or injury callups)

Just my thought.


Last edited by Blue Goose: 07-16-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Old
07-16-2012, 03:11 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punk_o_holic View Post
You make that comment but then look at the stats.

Mason, in 46 games posted a 3.39 GAA and a .894 SV%


Their 3rd string goalie(Sanford) that was signed for the AHL in 36 games posted a 2.60 GAA and a .911 SV%.

Their minor league goalie(York) in 11 games posted 2.30 GAA and a .920 SV %.

Yes, Mason in a better team might beable to put up better numbers but how does Sanford and York put up decent looking numbers on a same Columbus team?
People like to throw out Sanford's numbers and compare them to Mason's, but it really means nothing. The majority of the reason Mason's stats are so bad is because he was the ONLY goalie that was healthy during the first three months of the season.

Every single night I watched him get thrown to the wolves while the entire team in front of him skated around like chickens with their heads cut off. Constant odd man rushes, complete lack of defensive effort by anyone, no backup to help him out. He's 24 and in three seasons has had ~30 different defensemen play in front of him.

Sanford's numbers are a bit better cause he played after "coach" Arniel changed their system, and the team started playing slightly better cause the pressure was off of them, their season was over before Christmas.

Every time I see a CBJ fan whine about Mason ruining their team I just laugh at the utter ineptitude. Patrick Roy would look bad on that team.

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07-16-2012, 03:19 PM
  #86
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I have a question for the bj fans How would u say mason gives up most of his goals ? from the outside glove blocker crease etc? I think if he goes to a stronger defensive team he could rebound into a decent backup goalie?

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Old
07-16-2012, 03:21 PM
  #87
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I don't see why fans say he's got a negative value because of his contract at 2.9 mil (it's nothing really). I'm pretty sure fans of this board can propose plenty of swaps for other bad contracts that most of the CBJ fans would turn down easily. The problem is where does he fit more.

Would Columbus consider a Budaj for Mason swap? Cause we're also looking to offload Kaberle or Bourque.

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07-16-2012, 04:04 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I have a question for the bj fans How would u say mason gives up most of his goals ? from the outside glove blocker crease etc? I think if he goes to a stronger defensive team he could rebound into a decent backup goalie?
High glove side. All the time. He has the skill to be an NHL number 1. The problem is in his head. If he lets a goal in early, he can't recover.

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07-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #89
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I think the Devils should be all over this.

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07-16-2012, 04:07 PM
  #90
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Depends on if you include negative value

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07-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #91
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How about a 3-way with another team? Let's rotate backups.

Ex:

Montreal gets:

Steve Mason + <player>

LA gets:

Budaj + <player>

Columbus gets:

Bernier +
Bourque


Last edited by vokiel: 07-16-2012 at 06:39 PM. Reason: some folks tought the + wasn't significant.
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Old
07-16-2012, 04:32 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
How about a 3-way with another team? Let's rotate backups.

Ex:

Montreal gets:

Steve Mason +

LA gets:

Budaj +

Columbus gets:

Bernier +
Bourque
Why on earth does LA do this? Plus, no way we take on Bourque's salary. Mason is only under contract for one more year

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07-16-2012, 04:42 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
Why on earth does LA do this? Plus, no way we take on Bourque's salary. Mason is only under contract for one more year
ok bad idea then, sorry.

Edit: On why LA does it, I thought Budaj might be more interesting to them than Mason.

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Old
07-16-2012, 04:43 PM
  #94
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Does Steve Mason have any Value?


Even a penny is valued at .01 cents, right?

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07-16-2012, 04:47 PM
  #95
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Mason for Stajan!

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Old
07-16-2012, 04:48 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
ok bad idea then, sorry.

Edit: On why LA does it, I thought Budaj might be more interesting to them than Mason.
No need to apologize, it's an easy mistake. The way some people talk about his contract, you would think he is signed at 10 million for the next twenty years.

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07-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Generally View Post
People like to throw out Sanford's numbers and compare them to Mason's, but it really means nothing. The majority of the reason Mason's stats are so bad is because he was the ONLY goalie that was healthy during the first three months of the season.

Every single night I watched him get thrown to the wolves while the entire team in front of him skated around like chickens with their heads cut off. Constant odd man rushes, complete lack of defensive effort by anyone, no backup to help him out. He's 24 and in three seasons has had ~30 different defensemen play in front of him.

Sanford's numbers are a bit better cause he played after "coach" Arniel changed their system, and the team started playing slightly better cause the pressure was off of them, their season was over before Christmas.

Every time I see a CBJ fan whine about Mason ruining their team I just laugh at the utter ineptitude. Patrick Roy would look bad on that team.
I feel that is a pretty accurate assessment. He does need to be better, but the defense, especially in the first couple months has to share some of the blame.

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Old
07-16-2012, 05:12 PM
  #98
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He was a great goalie in his rookie year, so he could still have the potential to turn his career around. Let's see what he does this upcoming season.

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Old
07-16-2012, 05:16 PM
  #99
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He was a great goalie in his rookie year, so he could still have the potential to turn his career around. Let's see what he does this upcoming season.
That's what Columbus fans have been saying the past few years. The most annoying part is that he shows flashes of what he was and ought to be, but they are overshadowed by his horrible games.

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07-16-2012, 05:18 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
half of his albatross of a 2.9 million dollar deal? If he has no value, it has nothing to do with his contract.

I still think a 24 year old goalie who has shown the flashes he has still has some value but only to a team with a weak starter who may want to look into him splitting time.
Oiler fans here. I'd trade Khabbi for him.
that's about as far as I'd go.

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