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2012-13 is a transition year. Bergevin is focusing on 2013-14.

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:08 PM
  #51
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The word transition is a popular euphemism . In montreals case it means they are a bad team and there is nothing that can be done about it at the moment. If Bergevin builds this organically he gets full credit for not doing anything stupid.

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07-16-2012, 10:10 PM
  #52
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I really like the idea of that lineup, ex Beaulieu basically replaces Kaberle who IMO is not traded until Beaulieu is ready, and I see Tinordi taking a little longer to crack the lineup, just because its tougher being a stay at home D-men.

But if you want to get a bit more realistic, Gallagher, and Gionta are both RW, so they can't be on a line together, and IMO I think Gallagher needs 2 years in the AHL, perfect thing because that is when Gionta contract should be up.

Also you are missing a a right handed faceoff man, its very imporant, and something the Habs have lacked forever. And LL, White, and Dumont are all not good enough on faceoffs. Usually teams like to go with vets for that 4th line role, well one thing for sure is that Gally would be on the 4th line. If the team feels he is ready for the NHL, but not excatly ready for tough minutes, what you might see is have him play LW, ex a 3rd line of Gally-Eller-Leblanc, and slowly move him to wing, by either trading one of Eller,DD,Plek, or simply more Eller to LW, who is the only one of the 3 that would be moved to LW if the habs had to move one.
I could also see Galchenyuk being brought slowly as a 4th line center in his first season, just like the Bruins did with Joe Thornton or Tyler Seguin in their first season. I think that paid off in the end!

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07-16-2012, 10:21 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So many things went wrong last year that I don't blame Bergevin for sitting back and evaluating the team this year.

Will Eller make the jump to a #2 centerman?
Will DD solidify himself as a #2 or #1 centerman?
Will Cole hold up?
Will Kaberle bounce back?
Will Markov regain his form?
Will Bourque bounce back to his 27 goal/year self?
Will Gionta be the 29 goal guy he was before or is he going to be an injury plagued, 15 goal winger?
Is Gomez truly done?
Will PK, Diaz, Emelin continue to get better?
Can Gally make the jump this year or will he need another year?
Will Pleks have a rebound season?
Is Weber an NHL dman or an AHLer?

There are a lot of question marks.
There are every season for most teams. However, Bergevin seems to have plugged some of the small holes and there's still time for him to make major moves. Those extra second round picks Gauthier acquired for 2013 are valuable poker chips.

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07-16-2012, 10:31 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
There are every season for most teams. However, Bergevin seems to have plugged some of the small holes and there's still time for him to make major moves. Those extra second round picks Gauthier acquired for 2013 are valuable poker chips.
Bergevin certainly solidified our bottom 6 to an unprecedented high. I believe this team is ready to play hard for a very long time, ready to face the two true marathons that are the regular seasons and playoffs.

By solidifying these lines, he also made sure any extra winger coming on this team would have either quality 3rd line (along Eller and Moen) or regular 2nd line duty. This is good for youngsters like Leblanc or Gallagher who might want to fight for these spots.

Also, it leave us with a choice spot for any quality UFA that may be coming our way. He's know we ain't gonna stick him in the basement. Our 4th line isn't a scrap joke anymore. It's a dedicatedly built tough line.

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07-16-2012, 10:49 PM
  #55
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what if there's a lock out?! what are the chances that the habs get mackinnon or seth jones? lol

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07-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #56
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2 more years of crap and then we become serious contender. That's how I see it. That 2013-2014 offseason will be huge for the Habs. Gonna re-shape the face of the team.

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07-16-2012, 11:10 PM
  #57
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4 year plan

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07-16-2012, 11:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
There are every season for most teams. However, Bergevin seems to have plugged some of the small holes and there's still time for him to make major moves. Those extra second round picks Gauthier acquired for 2013 are valuable poker chips.
I don't really expect him to make any more moves, to be honest. I'd rather let Timmins see what he can come up with with possibly 3 swings in the top 44.

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07-17-2012, 12:11 AM
  #59
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No idea where to post this

In this (I'm sorry, it hurts me too) TVA Sports piece, they talk about a Habs goalie camp being in Kelowna, BC (having both our goalies and Pierre Groulx + Pierre Allard reunited in this time of the year sounds like a camp alright).

Aside from never having anyone captain their junior team, what's the Habs' connection there? Just being close to Carey (not a bad thing at all, just an honest question)? Anyone aware of another year where a similar event occured and I haven't noticed?

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07-17-2012, 12:26 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The more I think about it, the more I believe Bergevin won't make any other significant move this summer (unless he can win the race for someone like Nash or Ryan, which I doubt). Why? Because next year will be a "transition" season.

I see the moves he made so far, and I don't see any major improvement from last year. Sure, our bottom 6 is more intimidating, but that won't make the team win many more games. I expect the team to do slightly better than last year because they can't do worse, but I don't expect a significant improvement. Why?

- The top 6 is really much weaker than the top 10 teams in the league.
- Our bottom 6 is tough but cannot contribute much offensively.
- Our defense corp is solid, but with a few question marks because of lack of experience (Emelin, Diaz, Weber) and injuries (Markov).

I'm sure Bergevin and the whole management are aware of all that. I actually think they will leave the team like that on purpose. Why?

- Because they are waiting for the big annoying contracts to end (Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque). Or not necessarily to end, but at less to have one less year left so they become easier to buy out, bury in the minor or trade.

- Because the prospects are not ready yet. Many of them will begin their pro career in the AHL while a player like Galchenyuk will need one more year in the OHL. Maybe it's not a good idea to acquire an expensive UFA or player on a long term contract via trade at this point, since it would leave no spot open for the youngsters next year. I think we can expect players like Leblanc, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis to earn a spot or compete for a spot in the NHL roster as soon as 2013-14.

- Because Pacioretty and Desharnais will need to be re-signed next year. Both will get big raises, so it makes sense to leave some space under the cap.

- Because all of those considered to be the "extra players" are on one year contracts. Here I'm talking about Nokelainen, Armstrong, Geoffrion, Palushaj, Blunden, Bouillon, Weber, St-Denis and Nash. I think none of these players belong in the long term plans (unless they impress greatly this year). Clearly, most of these players will be released next summer and replaced by prospects.

- And most importantly, because it's "YEAR 1" of the Bergevin/Therrien regime. No matter how bad the team does next year, they can't do worse and they will be granted a free pass. If there's a moment when a team can afford to be in a "transition year", it's on Year One of a new regime. Therefore, that would also mean the Habs would get a high pick in a next draft, a draft where players from Quebec are expected to do well. Adding another high end prospect certainly wouldn't hurt.

- I could add that there could be a strike or lock-out this year. One more reason to make a gamble and don't invest too much for 2012-13.

So while I expect some exciting games next year, I won't be deceived if they still get bad results. I actually expect it. My eyes and hopes are already turned toward 2013-14, and I'm pretty sure that Bergevin and his staff are focusing on this too.

P.S. Mods, feel free to merge if you think that doesn't deserve its own thread.
uh huh. sure dude.you can read begevin's mind?great thread.nuther troll.next.

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07-17-2012, 12:45 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The more I think about it, the more I believe Bergevin won't make any other significant move this summer (unless he can win the race for someone like Nash or Ryan, which I doubt). Why? Because next year will be a "transition" season.

I see the moves he made so far, and I don't see any major improvement from last year. Sure, our bottom 6 is more intimidating, but that won't make the team win many more games. I expect the team to do slightly better than last year because they can't do worse, but I don't expect a significant improvement. Why?

- The top 6 is really much weaker than the top 10 teams in the league.
- Our bottom 6 is tough but cannot contribute much offensively.
- Our defense corp is solid, but with a few question marks because of lack of experience (Emelin, Diaz, Weber) and injuries (Markov).

I'm sure Bergevin and the whole management are aware of all that. I actually think they will leave the team like that on purpose. Why?

- Because they are waiting for the big annoying contracts to end (Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque). Or not necessarily to end, but at less to have one less year left so they become easier to buy out, bury in the minor or trade.

- Because the prospects are not ready yet. Many of them will begin their pro career in the AHL while a player like Galchenyuk will need one more year in the OHL. Maybe it's not a good idea to acquire an expensive UFA or player on a long term contract via trade at this point, since it would leave no spot open for the youngsters next year. I think we can expect players like Leblanc, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis to earn a spot or compete for a spot in the NHL roster as soon as 2013-14.

- Because Pacioretty and Desharnais will need to be re-signed next year. Both will get big raises, so it makes sense to leave some space under the cap.

- Because all of those considered to be the "extra players" are on one year contracts. Here I'm talking about Nokelainen, Armstrong, Geoffrion, Palushaj, Blunden, Bouillon, Weber, St-Denis and Nash. I think none of these players belong in the long term plans (unless they impress greatly this year). Clearly, most of these players will be released next summer and replaced by prospects.

- And most importantly, because it's "YEAR 1" of the Bergevin/Therrien regime. No matter how bad the team does next year, they can't do worse and they will be granted a free pass. If there's a moment when a team can afford to be in a "transition year", it's on Year One of a new regime. Therefore, that would also mean the Habs would get a high pick in a next draft, a draft where players from Quebec are expected to do well. Adding another high end prospect certainly wouldn't hurt.

- I could add that there could be a strike or lock-out this year. One more reason to make a gamble and don't invest too much for 2012-13.

So while I expect some exciting games next year, I won't be deceived if they still get bad results. I actually expect it. My eyes and hopes are already turned toward 2013-14, and I'm pretty sure that Bergevin and his staff are focusing on this too.

P.S. Mods, feel free to merge if you think that doesn't deserve its own thread.
This is a very good post. I hope Bergevin is thinking this way. It's a transition year, and I would be more comfortable knowing what a lot of our pro prospects can do before before any wholesale changes. Can Gallagher, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Bournival, continue their success at the pro level. Moreover, what about Eller and Leblanc's role on the Habs. Will they both have a break out year this year? We will definitely be a harder team to play against, and if Markov/Gionta are healthy we have a good shot at making the playoffs anyway. Bergevin inherited a team with a ton of assets to work with. He doesn't need to blow everything up to turn the ship around.

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07-17-2012, 02:28 AM
  #62
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what if there's a lock out?! what are the chances that the habs get mackinnon or seth jones? lol
The chances are probably less good if there's a lock out than if there's a season...

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07-17-2012, 04:48 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
- Because they are waiting for the big annoying contracts to end (Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque). Or not necessarily to end, but at less to have one less year left so they become easier to buy out, bury in the minor or trade.
So we can sign NEW big long-term contracts for UFA's. I don't think player attitudes to Montreal are going to change dramatically in two years.

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07-17-2012, 04:57 AM
  #64
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Are you daft? Or do you just not understand how an amnesty buyout works?

An amnesty buyout eliminates a contract for some fraction of the remaining dollars (exact mechanisms vary) with no cap penalty. It has all the advantages of putting a contract in the AHL, but costs equal to less amounts of money, frees up summer cap space and opens a contract spot. Its in every way better than burying a contract.

Its such a sweetheart deal for the team that its only availible in such a situation where the cap has gone down massively due to a new CBA. Everything I was talking about was in the context of how the new CBA may effect what the team needs to do and what options they will have.

An amnesty buyout is massively preferable to burying contracts in the AHL. The Habs would be absolute fools not to do so if they have the option. Especially since an amnesty buyout costs less to Molson than burying it in the NHL. Buyouts are a fraction of the salary, burying contracts pays them out almost in full. If amnesty buyouts are an option this time around there is zero benefit to the AHL compared to the buyout.

If the cap decreases significantly (say 60 million or less) it makes lots of sense to buyout Kaberle too as he's a significant hit for a player they don't need. They don't even need to spend the new space right away for it to be worthwhile, just keep it open.

Any scenario where the amnesty buyout is available means that cap space is going to be at a premium again.



Embarrassing. I don't like personal attacks most of the time, but since you open this door, you obviously are either ignorant or breathtakingly illogical.

You went through all this to repost the exact same drivel.

I know it's such a sweetheart deal, I'm sure molson is chomping at the bit to buyout Gomez and kaberle to free up cap space for his 27 th place team, illogical? It's not like it's a free pass, the cap space becomes available, but you still have to buy the players out, there's a substantial cost there, either rate, you can go on and on and call people ignorant, it isn't happening, it's a slightly better option than a demotion, but neither are happening.

If the cap rolls back to 60m so will the salaries, there will be no move required by us.

We were 27th last year, say it out loud, 27th. The last thing molson is going to do is spend 11-12m in buyouts.

You can face reality or not, it's entirely up to you.


Last edited by habsfanatics: 07-17-2012 at 05:03 AM.
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Old
07-17-2012, 06:28 AM
  #65
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2013-2014 lineup

Gionta - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Rupp - White - Dumont

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Kaberle

2014-2015 lineup

Pacioretty - Desharnais - UFA
Gallagher - Galchenyuk - Cole
UFA - Eller - Leblanc
Rupp - White - Dumont

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Beaulieu

Deal with it.

2015-2016 lineup
Ovechkin - Galchenyuk - Yakubov
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Gallagher
Cole - Eller - Leblanc
Rupp - White - Laraque

Tinordubban - Beaullis
Gorges - Gill
Stevens - Iafrate

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Old
07-17-2012, 07:06 AM
  #66
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2013-2014 lineup

Gionta - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Rupp - White - Dumont

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Kaberle

2014-2015 lineup

Pacioretty - Desharnais - UFA
Gallagher - Galchenyuk - Cole
UFA - Eller - Leblanc
Rupp - White - Dumont

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Beaulieu

Deal with it.

2015-2016 lineup
Ovechkin - Lemieux - Yakupov
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Mackinnon
Cole - Eller - Viggo Mortenson
Rupp - White - GSP

Tinordubban - Beaullis
Ekblad - Jones
Gorges - Me (bhuya71)

St. P-at-rice
Scrub
There I fixed it somewhat
Now I think our bottom 6 is the toughest in the league

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07-17-2012, 07:06 AM
  #67
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I might be one of the only few but even with the roster we have right now I think our team won't struggle like many suggest and won't be surprised if we make the playoffs.

- Our top 6 wingers right now are better than what we had when we made the playoffs the last two years, we have 2 guys who scored 30 goals last year and Gionta & Bourque both were close to 30 goals the two seasons before last year
- If Markov stays healthy our D will be a hell of a lot better, young guys like Subban, Diaz and Emelin will also likely continue to improve from last year
- Our bottom six is significantly improved and guys like Moen and Prust will help reduce Plekanec's penalty kill minutes
- New coaches and Markov back will likely improve our PP
- We have one of the best goalies in the world who kept us in most of our games last year

Not saying we have a great team or anything but I see us being closer to a playoff team than a lottery team.

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07-17-2012, 07:46 AM
  #68
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I don't see the Habs doing anything major in the next 2 years, after these next 2 seasons, Gionta, Gomez, Kaberle and Markov come off the books. Lots of solid youth coming up and Bergevin can add a solid player or 2 via FA and that's when I think we will become contenders for a long period

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07-17-2012, 07:47 AM
  #69
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I might be one of the only few but even with the roster we have right now I think our team won't struggle like many suggest and won't be surprised if we make the playoffs.

- Our top 6 wingers right now are better than what we had when we made the playoffs the last two years, we have 2 guys who scored 30 goals last year and Gionta & Bourque both were close to 30 goals the two seasons before last year
- If Markov stays healthy our D will be a hell of a lot better, young guys like Subban, Diaz and Emelin will also likely continue to improve from last year
- Our bottom six is significantly improved and guys like Moen and Prust will help reduce Plekanec's penalty kill minutes
- New coaches and Markov back will likely improve our PP
- We have one of the best goalies in the world who kept us in most of our games last year

Not saying we have a great team or anything but I see us being closer to a playoff team than a lottery team.
We might very well be. But in your analysis, you need to take into consideration the other teams we'll be playing against. And by doing that, it's clear that we "might" be a playoff team....but it will another of those hard fought battle.

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07-17-2012, 07:52 AM
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If it wasn't for injuries last year we would have had a lot more points in the standings. Markov alone changes the makeup of this team drastically.

And our new and improved bottom-6 gives definitely makes this team better. Last year at some point we had Palushaj, Geoffrion and Weber on our bottom-6. That's ridiculously bad.

I'm gonna say it right now, if this team isn't ''cursed'' again i.e. we do not suffer too many injuries and not 100% of the team underachieves like last year, we're gonna be in the hunt for the playoffs (i.e. 85-90 pts)

There's also the possibility that most players play up to their potential or overachieve (Eller, Bourque, Diaz, Leblanc, Gionta, Plekanec, Emelin, etc) and we overachieve just like the year we finished 1st and beat the Bruins in the 1st round with a young Price between the pipes.

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07-17-2012, 07:52 AM
  #71
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As far as players coming off the books....please let me be cautious about this. I do keep remembering how we were WAITING for Spacek to come off the books and so on.....We might very be replacing them so let's wait before taking that into consideration.

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07-17-2012, 07:55 AM
  #72
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I mean it's not like the team is filled with AHLers like the Blue Jackets. Our 2nd line on paper is a legit 2nd line (Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta). We have a great, physical bottom-6. We have some yougnsters who can contribute (Leblanc/Eller).

On D, we have a solid top-4 with Emelin, Subban, Markov, Gorges. We have depth. Even Kaberle and Gomez could surprise and do well for us.

In goal we have Price who's a top-5 NHL goaltender.

Some of you are talking as if we're headed for another bottom-5 finish. If things go well for us, we can make the playoffs.

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07-17-2012, 07:56 AM
  #73
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As far as players coming off the books....please let me be cautious about this. I do keep remembering how we were WAITING for Spacek to come off the books and so on.....We might very be replacing them so let's wait before taking that into consideration.
I think we where the only 2 pissed at that trade back in December for that reason. Anyways time for Bergevin to figure it out

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07-17-2012, 08:00 AM
  #74
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I don't think it's necessarily focusing on 2013-2014, but guys that had big drops in production last year or were hurt(Bourque Kaberle Markov Gionta Plekanec(offensively anyways)) will get a chance to rebound. I think by 13-14 guys like Gallagher LeBlanc Beaulieu Tinordi will either be here or knocking heavily on the door.

I'm not sure Bergevin has made a concrete decision on Gomez, it would depend on A-the ability to add an impact player with that cap room(Doan Ryan etc) B-an amnesty buyout

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07-17-2012, 09:03 AM
  #75
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2013-2014 is also going to be a transition year.

2014-2015 is IMO the first year we should really set the goal high.

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