HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Free Agent Frenzy XI: Frenzy? More like failure! Amirite?!!?!!11one

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-17-2012, 12:00 PM
  #26
KreiMeARiver
Have Confidence
 
KreiMeARiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,510
vCash: 500
There isn't going to be any work stoppage.

KreiMeARiver is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:13 PM
  #27
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 45,656
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
My favorite misspelling of Stepan's name has to be Stepfan. It's like they couldn't decide if it was Stepan or Stefan.
I'm prepared to call him this for the upcoming season.

__________________
"New day, new hope. Richards Buyout 2014". -Ail
Bob Richards is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:18 PM
  #28
LordsCup*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dont quit your day job, because accounting isnt your strongsuit.

Or were you going to mention that the $7.8M cap hit would be on the books for another 5 years?
What? Try again buddy.

We lose 4.2M off dubinsky and assume 1M+ off another player.

We gain 7.8M from nash. That evens to just around 2.5M added salary.

And when were going to mention losing Gabbys 7M contract after next season?

And i need to quit my day job ?

LordsCup* is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:20 PM
  #29
nsvoyageurs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
I know this is off topic and may be a little out there, this hasn't been discussed recently (at least that I know of) but making the playoffs after the CBA is settled could be harder if they put in place a realignment plan at least something similar to the plan the owners proposed last season and the players rejected; (4 divisions, 8 teams in 2 of them, 7 in the other 2; the top 4 in each division makes the playoffs). This could mean some pretty good teams may miss the playoffs. This could affect the way some of these teams build their roster. There would be more of an urgency to get that player that puts them over the top. Just food for thought.

This is probably an issue for DURING the season more so than the offseason, but it may be a factor. I'm not saying Sather should give up the farm for Nash or Ryan (or anyone else for that matter) because of this (he SHOULDN'T); most of the NYR competitors in their division have gotten weaker since the season ended, there's no need, at least right now to do anything crazy.

The realignment issue hasn't surfaced recently, but at some point, the owners (especially the people in Winnipeg and Detroit) will want this addressed.

nsvoyageurs is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:21 PM
  #30
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKL889 View Post
The GMs know ballpark what the cap will be. It will be about the same as it was this year.

We would have no trouble keeping our young players even with Nash.

People fail to realize we are also sending money back to get Nash. So we would only would be adding 2.5m if we send back Dubi and another million dollar contract.
That would have to be replaced.

Next year we have a bunch of RFAs and only Halpern as UFA, and he only makes 700k. Whoever we replace him with will cost that much or more. The only cap dollars we free up are on the expiration of Drury's buyout.

If the cap stays flat the next 2 years, where is the money coming from to give raises to McD, Anisimov, Stepan, Hagelin and Sauer? Ok, maybe Artie goes over to columbus with Dubi, and maybe Sauer doesn't get a raise because of the injury. But your still talking about a significant raise for McD, who will be arbitration eligible (assuming arbitration still exists in the next CBA). Hagelin will be arbitration eligible too. And if Stepan puts up 60 points (which is very possible), he will see a nice raise, even if it's only on a 2 year deal.

There are a lot of unknowns right now. Until we know what the new CBA will bring, trading for Nash represents a risk, even if the risk is that we won't be as deep because we don't have the cap space to upgrade other roster spots, because we have so many big contracts.

Saying "we would have no trouble keeping our young players" is ridiculous. That's like saying you have no trouble affording a new car, yet have no idea how much money you have to spend or what the car costs.

I'm not saying it won't work out. Obviously, Rangers' management have crunched the numbers, they have a better idea of what to expect in the new CBA, and they seem to think it can work. But they've been wrong before.

Trading for Nash represents a risk because of all the unknowns, simple as that.

GAGLine is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:27 PM
  #31
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
You don't believe their would be a cap rollback for existing contracts for a few years? If the cap dropped seriously enough, too many cap close teams would have to dump big contracts and not enough small market teams would be able to take on those contracts.

For example all contracts signed between 200x to 201x will have a cap hit rollback of 20%. Salaries aren't reduced by 20%, but the cap hit is. Granted there will have to be many specifications in much greater entail, but its a start.
I would be absolutely shocked if there was another rollback. I just don't see any way the union accepts another one, not with Fehr running the show. Compliance buyouts, yes, but the only player we would buyout is Redden, and that doesn't help us.

More than likely, the cap will be about what is was last year. What it is the year after that is the real sticking point. If it's going to be 70+ mil for 2013-14, then sure, we can fit Nash, no problem. But if it's still hovering around 64-65 mil, things get much tighter.

GAGLine is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:36 PM
  #32
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,582
vCash: 500
Not the rollback topic again? The owners will get their savings with the players accepting a % cut.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:41 PM
  #33
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Then I wondered, how does the Columbus Blue Jackets general manager figure to squeeze such a huge package out of a rival GM who knows Howson is painted into a corner? Once a player makes it known he wants to be moved, the chances of his team getting fair market value in return for him diminishes significantly. It becomes even more complicated when that player has a long-term contract as well as a no-trade or no-movement clause.
Quote:
It’s not that Nash was excelling and his departure will mean a sudden decline in the team’s ability to win the Stanley Cup. Hell, this team has only made the playoffs once in its 11 seasons in the NHL and Nash, to be frank, has been on the decline in terms of production the past three seasons. Last season he had just 30 goals and 59 points in 80 games. He ranked 25th in goal-scoring and 59th in points.

So Howson is trying to move a declining asset with the ability to turn down a proposed trade on his hands. The system, as much as Nash, is letting him down.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...e_tying_hands/

Howson gave Nash the NMC.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:55 PM
  #34
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Eh, seems like another article giving Howson too much of a pass. He's mismanaged a player's request, incorrectly evaluated the demand, incorrectly valuated the player as an asset, and now he's waited so long that the market has grown to include better/cheaper options than Nash.

Just make a deal, Scott. You're digging yourself a hole that you're never going to get out of.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:06 PM
  #35
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKL889 View Post
What? Try again buddy.

We lose 4.2M off dubinsky and assume 1M+ off another player.

We gain 7.8M from nash. That evens to just around 2.5M added salary.

And when were going to mention losing Gabbys 7M contract after next season?

And i need to quit my day job ?
You're looking at the whole thing in a vacuum, although your Gaborik observation is a small step in the right direction.

First off, what happens with that assumed $1M additional roster player? Won't we need to be replacing him?

Secondly, you're severely underestimating how valuable an extra $2.5M yearly would be in signing some good players that will be RFA's soon.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:38 PM
  #36
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,378
vCash: 500
Well, going by the interview with Beuk on the Rangers main page, its looking like Thomas will be with the Whale this season.

I really am beginning to think the Rangers are fast tracking their top prospects. A couple of them could be with the main club sometime this year.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:48 PM
  #37
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
I think, had Thomas shown he was physically ready, Thomas would have been in the NHL last season. Torts has mentioned him by name before and he has been quoted as saying he was "intrigued" or something along those lines by his skillset. He knows the team needs to infuse skill and goal scoring. They may seriously take a look at adding him this season and bringing him along slowly IF he proves he is ready physically.

I don't think it is a matter of if Thomas will make the NHL. For me, it is just a matter of when. His hockey IQ is very high and he knows how to score goals. His shot is dynamic and he is isn't so overly soft that he will be a liability as he gets stronger. Underrated prospect.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:48 PM
  #38
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
I think, had Thomas shown he was physically ready, Thomas would have been in the NHL last season. Torts has mentioned him by name before and he has been quoted as saying he was "intrigued" or something along those lines by his skillset. He knows the team needs to infuse skill and goal scoring. They may seriously take a look at adding him this season and bringing him along slowly IF he proves he is ready physically.

I don't think it is a matter of if Thomas will make the NHL. For me, it is just a matter of when. His hockey IQ is very high and he knows how to score goals. His shot is dynamic and he is isn't so overly soft that he will be a liability as he gets stronger. Underrated prospect.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:50 PM
  #39
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,368
vCash: 500
Speaking of Beuk. I wonder what is going on with his kid. Didn't get an ELC, so he should be a UFA. I always thought transitioning him from a forward to a defensemen was a mistake. He's a good straight-ahead player who can hit, skates well and has a big shot. His defensive coverage is shoddy as hell. However, he might be an interesting option if you wanted to try and convert him back to forward. Could carve out a career as a 4th liner.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:51 PM
  #40
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think, had Thomas shown he was physically ready, Thomas would have been in the NHL last season. Torts has mentioned him by name before and he has been quoted as saying he was "intrigued" or something along those lines by his skillset. He knows the team needs to infuse skill and goal scoring. They may seriously take a look at adding him this season and bringing him along slowly IF he proves he is ready physically.

I don't think it is a matter of if Thomas will make the NHL. For me, it is just a matter of when. His hockey IQ is very high and he knows how to score goals. His shot is dynamic and he is isn't so overly soft that he will be a liability as he gets stronger. Underrated prospect.
I respectfully disagree. If I was a betting man, I would bet against Christian Thomas making any sort of significant impact in the NHL on a consistent basis.

Physical shortcomings are difficult to overcome, and all of his attributes you listed were against junior hockey competition. Different scenarios and physical prowess entirely, but it harkens me back to those who used to fawn over Evgeny Grachev's junior numbers.

We'll see how he does in the AHL.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #41
LordsCup*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You're looking at the whole thing in a vacuum, although your Gaborik observation is a small step in the right direction.

First off, what happens with that assumed $1M additional roster player? Won't we need to be replacing him?

Secondly, you're severely underestimating how valuable an extra $2.5M yearly would be in signing some good players that will be RFA's soon.
2.5M isnt that high a number that it would cause such a concern. We are not at the cap ceiling right now and Sather has been extremely good when it comes to managing it while keeping our young players and still adding a couple big contracts. Sather has also been extremely good not signing huge contracts to RFAs and the kids im sure have to expect not to get huge pay days yet.

Prust a perfect example. We saved a good 1M to not resign him and brought in players for cheap who can do what he did.

Worst comes to worse and we get too close to the cap, sather will likely work his magic again via trades to lose shed some salary.

I just dont think its as big of a deal as some and think it would be very manageable. Just my two cents.

LordsCup* is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:00 PM
  #42
Gardner McKay
Hey Hey...
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta/Abingdon
Country: United States
Posts: 9,649
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I would be absolutely shocked if there was another rollback. I just don't see any way the union accepts another one, not with Fehr running the show. Compliance buyouts, yes, but the only player we would buyout is Redden, and that doesn't help us.

More than likely, the cap will be about what is was last year. What it is the year after that is the real sticking point. If it's going to be 70+ mil for 2013-14, then sure, we can fit Nash, no problem. But if it's still hovering around 64-65 mil, things get much tighter.
You mis read. I didn't say a salary rollback. I said a cap hit rollback as a way to grandfather in existing contracts if the cap is drastically reduced.

I.E. Gaborik would still get paid his 7.5 million, but his cap hit would be reduced to say 6.750 (in between classes, just throwing out random numbers)

There is a big difference and I agree with you that overall salary rollbacks are highly unlikely.

__________________
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from any direction."
Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:04 PM
  #43
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,368
vCash: 500
The thing about Thomas is that he has the toolbox to be a pro. His skating, passing and shot are all NHL caliber. It's obviously the size and strength that are the question marks. However, what keeps a lot of small players out of the NHL is how they read the ice and adapt to the play. Some guys just skate with their head down and end up either boxing themselves into a board battle they can't win, or getting flattened by an opponent. I.e., the Petr Prucha syndrome.

Thomas has always shown a willingness to get into the dirty areas of the ice. He's fearless out there, but sometimes a kid needs a few cautious thoughts in his head. He's going to have to learn how to find seams in the defense, and create open ice for himself against guys whose reach is wider than Thomas is tall.

I think little guys can succeed in the post-lockout NHL. Thomas can score from just about anywhere in the offensive zone. Just a matter of him finding the time and space to do it.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:05 PM
  #44
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I respectfully disagree. If I was a betting man, I would bet against Christian Thomas making any sort of significant impact in the NHL on a consistent basis.

Physical shortcomings are difficult to overcome, and all of his attributes you listed were against junior hockey competition. Different scenarios and physical prowess entirely, but it harkens me back to those who used to fawn over Evgeny Grachev's junior numbers.

We'll see how he does in the AHL.
Ah, but the difference between Thomas and Grachev is that Grachev was too big and strong for his piers. Thomas is not. In last years camp he started slowly and as he got more comfortable his offense started to show through a little bit. If he keeps his feet moving he has the IQ to get to where he needs to in order to score.

I don't think he will be in the NHL this season, but if he made the team, I would not be overly surprised. He has a skill that this team sorely needs.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:08 PM
  #45
Gardner McKay
Hey Hey...
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta/Abingdon
Country: United States
Posts: 9,649
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I respectfully disagree. If I was a betting man, I would bet against Christian Thomas making any sort of significant impact in the NHL on a consistent basis.

Physical shortcomings are difficult to overcome, and all of his attributes you listed were against junior hockey competition. Different scenarios and physical prowess entirely, but it harkens me back to those who used to fawn over Evgeny Grachev's junior numbers.

We'll see how he does in the AHL.
Physical shortcomings are as much of a guarantee of preventing a player from making the NHL as being physically superior is to making it guarantee that you make the NHL.

Theo Fleury excelled during the clutch and grab era. Marty St. Louis did during both era's. Im not saying Thomas is in the same class as either of those guys but its also not as if they were any more of a sure thing than Thomas is. Fleury was drafted in the 8th round. St. Louis wasn't even drafted.


Now Rocco Grimaldi at what 5'5? THAT is a different story.

Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:25 PM
  #46
PromNite
Armed Android
 
PromNite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PromNite
Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Theo Fleury excelled during the clutch and grab era. Marty St. Louis did during both era's.
I remember we were all saying these same things about Zucc after we signed him.

__________________


Adam Tensta's from the 163
PromNite is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:31 PM
  #47
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
I remember we were all saying these same things about Zucc after we signed him.
no everyone. I don't think Zucc got the best of opportunities with the NYR, but i'm not sure he was of the breed of St. Louis or Fluery, or even Gionta.

I guess we'll never know...

NikC is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:34 PM
  #48
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,743
vCash: 500
Zuccarello has severe speed problems to go along with his size issues.

By all accounts, Thomas is an adequate skater.

Im not saying Thomas wont be a full-time NHL'er, but I'd say the deck is stacked against him.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:44 PM
  #49
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
I remember we were all saying these same things about Zucc after we signed him.
I still think Zucc can be an NHLer. Just no room for him here. He looked great when he was called up again, but the broken hand just set him back too far.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:55 PM
  #50
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,064
vCash: 500
Fwiw, I have no problem dealing stefan for Nash

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.