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Old
07-17-2012, 01:14 AM
  #26
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Wow, stretch the truth much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Article from end of June where Wisconsin coach says he is ahead of Gardiner and compares him to Suter
http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...129/story.html
He doesn't say he is going to be Suter. He mentions one similar characteristic. He says they both have presence on the ice. That means NOTHING.

And all this person has to go on with Gardiner is how he played with them, which is nowhere close to the player he is now. He is comparing Schultz now to a memory of an undeveloped year-old version of Gardiner. Gardiner was not expected to be this good, this fast. One is playing in College, and one was the top defensive rookie in the NHL and already easily a top-4 defenceman. Give your head a shake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
“He’s as good as Gardiner is right now,” said Prendergast. “He’s well ahead of the learning curve for his age. He’s not just a puck-mover. He’s good defensively, too. When I would see him at Wisconsin, he’d stand out. For sure, he’d stand-out. The kid’s a player.”
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
..Some scouts think he’s similar to Drew Doughty.
See nothing on this. Similar does not equal equal, and doesn't even mean potential. Once again, somebody can play similarly to Gretzky. That doesn't mean they will be Gretzky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Edmonton Journal. And you are complaining about other people's sources?

Also says nothing of importance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...man-weighs-in/
"The team that signs him could reasonably expect him to step onto their second pairing and be good on the power play from the get-go, which would be a great asset, with the ability to be even greater down the line."
and missed mentioning:

"Keep in mind, though, that he only turns 22 in the summer and defensemen tend to have much more risk/variance on their projections than forwards when making that jump to the NHL. I love his talent level and I think he certainly can reach his projection, but due to his position I wouldn’t go say he’s a “sure thing” to do so, nor would I say he’ll peak in the next 1-2 years."

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Never any guarantees with any player but you would be hard pressed to find an NHL scout who doesn't think Schultz has tremendous upside.
What a breaking story! That has only been said about every prospect ever! What's your point?

I never said Schultz is a bum. I said locking him into your top-4 next year, and calling your defense great, is stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Im not going to waste any more time finding quotes and links for you as you obviously have decided that since he is now an Oiler that he wont play top 4 minutes in the NHL.
In other words, those articles which don't even say what you are claiming, despite being entirely bias in favour of Edmonton and media-driven, are the only things you have.

I told Leaf fans that they were stupid to pencil him into the top-4, or even the line-up, as well. Edmonton has a worse defence, so he may make the team with them, but expecting him to make any kind of significant impact next year is completely pre-mature.

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Old
07-17-2012, 01:38 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Wow, stretch the truth much?


He doesn't say he is going to be Suter. He mentions one similar characteristic. He says they both have presence on the ice. That means NOTHING.

And all this person has to go on with Gardiner is how he played with them, which is nowhere close to the player he is now. He is comparing Schultz now to a memory of an undeveloped year-old version of Gardiner. Gardiner was not expected to be this good, this fast. One is playing in College, and one was the top defensive rookie in the NHL and already easily a top-4 defenceman. Give your head a shake.


See above.


See nothing on this. Similar does not equal equal, and doesn't even mean potential. Once again, somebody can play similarly to Gretzky. That doesn't mean they will be Gretzky.


Edmonton Journal. And you are complaining about other people's sources?

Also says nothing of importance.


and missed mentioning:

"Keep in mind, though, that he only turns 22 in the summer and defensemen tend to have much more risk/variance on their projections than forwards when making that jump to the NHL. I love his talent level and I think he certainly can reach his projection, but due to his position I wouldn’t go say he’s a “sure thing” to do so, nor would I say he’ll peak in the next 1-2 years."


What a breaking story! That has only been said about every prospect ever! What's your point?

I never said Schultz is a bum. I said locking him into your top-4 next year, and calling your defense great, is stupid.


In other words, those articles which don't even say what you are claiming, despite being entirely bias in favour of Edmonton and media-driven, are the only things you have.

I told Leaf fans that they were stupid to pencil him into the top-4, or even the line-up, as well. Edmonton has a worse defence, so he may make the team with them, but expecting him to make any kind of significant impact next year is completely pre-mature.


I knew Schultz would instantly become a bottom pairing D once the Oil got him. This, though, takes the cake.

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Old
07-17-2012, 01:50 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post

I told Leaf fans that they were stupid to pencil him into the top-4, or even the line-up, as well. Edmonton has a worse defence, so he may make the team with them, but expecting him to make any kind of significant impact next year is completely pre-mature.
Worse?

Toronto was 29th in GA, and 28th on the PK the last 2 seasons. That sounds pretty bad to me.

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07-17-2012, 02:13 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Worse?

Toronto was 29th in GA, and 28th on the PK the last 2 seasons. That sounds pretty bad to me.
Mainly because our goalies are incredibly inexperienced, and our main one was injured for most of the season, leaving it all up to Mr. can't stop a beach ball. While playing in the worst run-and-gun style imaginable, which contradicts the style of most of our defensemen.

GA and PK% is not the determining factor of a defense. In fact, both are just as reliant on forwards, and defensive forwards has been a weak-point for us for a while.

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Old
07-17-2012, 02:18 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
For Boston to get Whitney, they would have to shed almost 4M in cap space and the Oilers would pass on Thomas. Thomas will not come back to play for a non playoff team and Oilers would rather give Dubie his chance. If Whitney comes comes back to form, the price would be about the same the Leafs got for Tomas Kaberle.
You are wrong. Boston could add Whitney and still having Thomas on the roster. Capgeek has Krug as our 7th dman and this is very unlikely, so actually the Bruins have $2M in cap space and Savard to be placed on LTIR, giving us a total of $6M.

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:49 AM
  #31
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He won't be dealt for picks unless it's at the TDD. We need bodies and while he could very well be injuried after 10 games, a 2nd rounder doesn't help us.

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07-17-2012, 10:27 AM
  #32
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Whitney is best buddies with Hall and Eberle and seem to all hang around together all the time. Given his value of late there is no reason to trade him.

If Klefbom proves he is NHL ready at TC or if we acquire a legit top 3 Dman via another trade. Then we can start looking at shipping Whitney away at deadline.

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Old
07-17-2012, 11:42 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ahriman View Post
You are wrong. Boston could add Whitney and still having Thomas on the roster. Capgeek has Krug as our 7th dman and this is very unlikely, so actually the Bruins have $2M in cap space and Savard to be placed on LTIR, giving us a total of $6M.
I don't fully understand the LTIR, but once a player is placed on LTIR he can only be replaced by a non-roster player to get the cap relief. For this to work, Whitney cannot be on the roster at the beginning of the season.

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07-17-2012, 11:49 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Oilers? Lots of D? What?

Oh, hockeyfutures staff. That explains a lot.
Whitney, Petry, Smid, Nick Schultz (something about your posts make me think you don't know the difference between Nick and Justin), Sutton, Peckham and Potter all have NHL experience.

I expect Justin Schultz to make the team.

On top of those EIGHT it wouldn't surprise me if Teubert or Klefbom made the team. They both have 2 years of pro experience and Teubert has 24 NHL games under his belt.

That's at least 10 defensemen who are "in the mix" for jobs this year. How is that not a lot?

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07-17-2012, 12:04 PM
  #35
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This thread is clearly a cleverly disguised attempt by the Oilers fanbase to pawn Whitney off on the Caps fans so they can complete their set of all 3 Schultzes. Well, we accept their offer of Whitney for Schultz + 2nd! No takesies backsies!

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07-17-2012, 12:07 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvalidUsername View Post
Whitney, Petry, Smid, Nick Schultz (something about your posts make me think you don't know the difference between Nick and Justin), Sutton, Peckham and Potter all have NHL experience.

I expect Justin Schultz to make the team.

On top of those EIGHT it wouldn't surprise me if Teubert or Klefbom made the team. They both have 2 years of pro experience and Teubert has 24 NHL games under his belt.

That's at least 10 defensemen who are "in the mix" for jobs this year. How is that not a lot?
Klefbom will be playing another year in the SEL, will not be available till next year.

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Old
07-17-2012, 12:10 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
This thread is clearly a cleverly disguised attempt by the Oilers fanbase to pawn Whitney off on the Caps fans so they can complete their set of all 3 Schultzes. Well, we accept their offer of Whitney for Schultz + 2nd! No takesies backsies!
Desperate attempt by a cap fan to hijack the thread.

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07-17-2012, 12:14 PM
  #38
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As others have said, his value fluctuates heavily based upon his health (just like Hemsky).

If he's healthy, he's an elite #2 or an above-average #1. If he's not, his footspeed is so bad that he probably should be a 3rd pairing guy who can chip in on the powerplay.

I think Boston would be a good fit (if Whitney is healthy). I don't know if Edmonton would trade a healthy Whitney though, as he's precisely what the Oilers need.

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07-17-2012, 12:18 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Desperate attempt by a cap fan to hijack the thread.
Hijack? That post was absolutely on topic. Definitely a desperate attempt at something else though

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07-17-2012, 12:44 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
I don't fully understand the LTIR, but once a player is placed on LTIR he can only be replaced by a non-roster player to get the cap relief. For this to work, Whitney cannot be on the roster at the beginning of the season.
Caron and Seguin can be send to Providence before, next day they are back. As I said, Boston has $6M in cap space and having Thomas on the roster.

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07-17-2012, 01:46 PM
  #41
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The Pens will trade you Kunitz and Tangradi for Whitney. Just kidding. I wouldnt want Whitney back because even though he is a great guy in the locker room he's too SOFF

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07-17-2012, 01:55 PM
  #42
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Correct me if I am wrong, but Whitney's foot problems aren't simply an injury issue but some kind of congenital problem.

Last I heard he was managing the pain.

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07-17-2012, 02:02 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ahriman View Post
Caron and Seguin can be send to Providence before, next day they are back. As I said, Boston has $6M in cap space and having Thomas on the roster.
Plus, that's not even true. The NHL gave up on trying to regulate the LTIR clause word-for-word. Teams using LTIR can go over the cap by amount of injured player's cap hit minus cap space originally held by the team. There is no requirement that a certain player be designated as the LTIR replacement and that said player can't be on the roster at the time of LTIR designation.

In the Summer of 2010, the Bruins board was inundated with all wannabe LTIR experts telling us the Bruins would have to lose Ryder for nothing because the Bruins had to be under the cap limit before using LTIR. But it wasn't the case. The Bruins used Savard's & Sturm's LTIR and balanced along that all season all the way to a cup. Chiarelli will do that again if he can't move Thomas and finds something worth spending the space on.

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07-17-2012, 02:10 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
This thread is clearly a cleverly disguised attempt by the Oilers fanbase to pawn Whitney off on the Caps fans so they can complete their set of all 3 Schultzes. Well, we accept their offer of Whitney for Schultz + 2nd! No takesies backsies!
OT but there is also Ian Schultz in MTL. The kid who was part of the deal for Halak

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07-17-2012, 03:31 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Wow, stretch the truth much?


He doesn't say he is going to be Suter. He mentions one similar characteristic. He says they both have presence on the ice. That means NOTHING.

And all this person has to go on with Gardiner is how he played with them, which is nowhere close to the player he is now. He is comparing Schultz now to a memory of an undeveloped year-old version of Gardiner. Gardiner was not expected to be this good, this fast. One is playing in College, and one was the top defensive rookie in the NHL and already easily a top-4 defenceman. Give your head a shake.


See above.


See nothing on this. Similar does not equal equal, and doesn't even mean potential. Once again, somebody can play similarly to Gretzky. That doesn't mean they will be Gretzky.


Edmonton Journal. And you are complaining about other people's sources?

Also says nothing of importance.


and missed mentioning:

"Keep in mind, though, that he only turns 22 in the summer and defensemen tend to have much more risk/variance on their projections than forwards when making that jump to the NHL. I love his talent level and I think he certainly can reach his projection, but due to his position I wouldn’t go say he’s a “sure thing” to do so, nor would I say he’ll peak in the next 1-2 years."


What a breaking story! That has only been said about every prospect ever! What's your point?

I never said Schultz is a bum. I said locking him into your top-4 next year, and calling your defense great, is stupid.


In other words, those articles which don't even say what you are claiming, despite being entirely bias in favour of Edmonton and media-driven, are the only things you have.

I told Leaf fans that they were stupid to pencil him into the top-4, or even the line-up, as well. Edmonton has a worse defence, so he may make the team with them, but expecting him to make any kind of significant impact next year is completely pre-mature.
Don't be sad. Sour grapes isn't going to make your desperate attempts to devalue a highly regarded prospect any more true. The things nabob said were largely true and he provided links. Nobody claimed Schultz will be an instant star, but he's certainly been projected by many to make an impact and most likely be an adequete top 4 guy by the end of the season. 1st pairing potential is definitely considered a likely bet. This is a player with tremendous offense, and thats to go with 2 consecutive defenseive player of the year awards. His game is considered complete for a prospect.

To put it in perspective hockeys future prospect ranking have these defenseman listed, in order they are: Hamilton, Rundblad, Smith, Gormley, Klefbom, Beaulieu, Ellis, Schultz, Morrow, Merrill, Brodin, Voynov (which is for some weird reason listed as Johnson), Elliott, Despres, Blum, Erixon, Dumoulin, Oleksiak. Not that it's a perfect source, in fact it really needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but the 8th best prospect defenseman in the world is a pretty stellar ranking. Keep in mind too this list was compiled before all the hype iirc, and it doesn't include the last draft.

Oh and citing a newspaper is valid no matter the city of origin, if it can be done in University then it should be appropriate on HF. Journalists are supposed to remain unbiased, it's not perfect but no source is. Get real.

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Old
07-17-2012, 03:53 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Article from end of June where Wisconsin coach says he is ahead of Gardiner and compares him to Suter
http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...129/story.html

and

“He’s as good as Gardiner is right now,” said Prendergast. “He’s well ahead of the learning curve for his age. He’s not just a puck-mover. He’s good defensively, too. When I would see him at Wisconsin, he’d stand out. For sure, he’d stand-out. The kid’s a player.”

...Some scouts think he’s similar to Drew Doughty.

Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...#ixzz20r4aJHiN


http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...man-weighs-in/
"The team that signs him could reasonably expect him to step onto their second pairing and be good on the power play from the get-go, which would be a great asset, with the ability to be even greater down the line."

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Never any guarantees with any player but you would be hard pressed to find an NHL scout who doesn't think Schultz has tremendous upside.


Im not going to waste any more time finding quotes and links for you as you obviously have decided that since he is now an Oiler that he wont play top 4 minutes in the NHL.
What a shocker, the media of the team that landed him is pumping his tires, and his former coach....


As to Whitney, no way he gets the return Kaberle got from the Bruins. That was a one time, major exception. The Bruins were pretty desperate for that PMD. You will probably get a 1st for him at the deadline, and maybe an alright defensive prospect at the deadline.

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07-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #47
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So glad Whitney is finding some love where he's at. I couldn't stand watching him as a Penguin, but he always seemed like a solid guy and I've always wished the best for him.

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07-17-2012, 04:50 PM
  #48
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Currently I wouldn't give more than a 2nd rounder + B prospect... he has been injured far too much... too much risk for my liking. You could get a decent 2nd pairing defenseman or you could get a guy that plays less than 40 games.

It's like asking the value on Markov... Oilers would never get near the value they feel he is worth.

Better off holding onto him and hope he can re-establish himself as a #2 or #3 defenseman.

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07-17-2012, 11:13 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Mainly because our goalies are incredibly inexperienced, and our main one was injured for most of the season, leaving it all up to Mr. can't stop a beach ball. While playing in the worst run-and-gun style imaginable, which contradicts the style of most of our defensemen.

GA and PK% is not the determining factor of a defense. In fact, both are just as reliant on forwards, and defensive forwards has been a weak-point for us for a while.
Now I understand why you are coming off as being so incredibly insecure about Schultz. I didnt realize I was taking to Jake Gardiner who just got shunned by his best buddy for Edmonton.


Last edited by nabob: 07-17-2012 at 11:21 PM.
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07-17-2012, 11:18 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan View Post
What a shocker, the media of the team that landed him is pumping his tires, and his former coach....


As to Whitney, no way he gets the return Kaberle got from the Bruins. That was a one time, major exception. The Bruins were pretty desperate for that PMD. You will probably get a 1st for him at the deadline, and maybe an alright defensive prospect at the deadline.
Sorry all the articles from Toronto and Vancouver based papers said he was a bum and would probably never amount to anything as a NHL player. I figured a guy who is in the HHOF and who has covered the NHL for decades (longer than most posters on the site have been alive for) was a pretty good source.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...129/story.html

here is one from the Calgary Herald. You know the city where the Oilers biggest rivals play.

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