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Barclay's Center & Brooklyn/Queens Talk Part III

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:36 PM
  #76
Bert Marshall days
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
https://twitter.com/ChrisBottaNHL/st...15447420690433

#Isles still hoping for offers from Queens and Suffolk. My take: Queens highly unlikely as of now. Suffolk could dance.
Awwwwright!!!!!!!!! We're gonna end up in Queens! What I wanted all along!! WOO HOO



"The 8/1 referendum is a slam dunk."

"The Lighthouse project will get done before the Barclay's AY in Brooklyn will."

- Chris Botta



(I'm here all week. Try the veal. Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses)

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07-16-2012, 09:21 PM
  #77
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Awwwwright!!!!!!!!! We're gonna end up in Queens! What I wanted all along!! WOO HOO



"The 8/1 referendum is a slam dunk."

"The Lighthouse project will get done before the Barclay's AY in Brooklyn will."

- Chris Botta



(I'm here all week. Try the veal. Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses)
Exactly. this guy has been wrong more than he has ever been right.

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07-16-2012, 09:22 PM
  #78
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I continue to laugh at how preposterous some people seem to be. what these people fail to realize is if wang was going or willing to pluck down his own money for a renovation or new arena wouldn't he have done so already? he was willing to do it but only if he got his lighthouse. no lighthouse no new or renovated arena. simple as that.
I tend to agree. If it was a big money winner, he'd have just done it already.

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07-17-2012, 02:08 AM
  #79
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Only true IF the current RFQ is taken off the table. Even then, the restrictive TOH zoning makes it inviable. Also Murray is at the TOH helm until November 2013.
You did get the part about "after 2015".....meaning Murray is not there or sooner to be out than the 2013 I saw you post and have no idea why (unless you're one of the 2013-is-the-latest-we-can-start-building crowd that makes zero sense).

What did my post say? Make NVMC viable, sign the lease renewal, thus controlling the entire property (NO RFQ'S THEN!!! WANG HOLDS DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AFTER HE SIGNS!) and wait until Murray is out, the economy is better and something can be done. Or will you argue this by stating 2013 is the last time ever we can see something happen? I can't help you, then.

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07-17-2012, 02:17 AM
  #80
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You're the only person on the planet that thinks this.

Why would Wang drop ~$250M on someone else's property? Just so he can earn a measly $10M more a year? That's nuts. There are a lot better returns for $250M than upgrading a building he doesn't own.
Yeah, I'm the only person who thinks investing in a building and product to market to consumers that nets 60-80% of the cost of the building annually to increase revenues and using 10-15% annually to repay the loan is worthwhile.

Yep.

No owner ever borrowed to build an arena. No business owner ever borrowed on a 20 to 30 year loan package to fund an expansion, startup or renovation to increase sales. Nope. No one ever did it. Lunacy.

(if he leases it for 30 years, LIKE RESTAURANTS, BODY SHOPS, FACTORIES, PRO SPORTS TEAMS, SPERM BANKS, MORTGAGE BANKS, HOTELS AND SO ON DO, he makes more money for 30 years. Ever owned a business or known someone who has? I'll tell you the advantages of leasing vs. owning if you care)

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07-17-2012, 03:09 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
I continue to laugh at how preposterous some people seem to be. what these people fail to realize is if wang was going or willing to pluck down his own money for a renovation or new arena wouldn't he have done so already? he was willing to do it but only if he got his lighthouse. no lighthouse no new or renovated arena. simple as that.
Preposterous is your mantra. WHAT YOU fail to realize is his personality, his history in busines, the LOGISTICS of his efforts thus far and the rationale behind them and how biased you are against Nassau might be clouding any ratinal thought for the events that took place.

He has the rights exclusively to NVMC until 2015. THREE MORE YEARS. He went for the LHP, a GRAND SCHEME. THE HOME RUN. He failed, going too big and ignoring the process as Nassau did, wasting his efforts by bypassing the most critical component: ZONING AUTHORITY (the ultimate say in what could go up).

He then went for the quick buck: a masked attempt at taxpayer assisted funding for an arena. It originally was billed as Wang paying it all back but when looked at, Wang would pay most back if he didn't meet revenue expectations, STICKING TAXPAYERS WITH THE DIFFERENCE.

So now what? He has an anxious County passing RFQ's and RFP's that have already been scrubbed and one still out there but he won't bite. Nassau is trying to make something happen and Wang sees it.

So why should be bite now? His leverage grows, correct? As 2015 comes closer, the threat of Nassau losing much needed revenue GROWS EXPONENTIALLY. The Brooklyn threat must be weighing HEAVY. (KC was a joke; Brooklyn is much more pointed a threat)

If Wang is playing his cards like I saw him do at CA when I had them in my portfolio (big mistake), he is acting as a petulant, unyielding robber-baron and waiting with clenched fist to strike, as he did in his many takeovers. He works on CONTROL, with a cynical contempt for competition and regulation. He most likely is waiting to bleed Nassau into submission, and he'll wait to make the best deal come to him, using intimidation. Read up on him, it's fascinating (what an effective a-hole he was).

Nassau will propose and propose and try and sway him and Wang will let things get desperate and then he will make his demands. I would bet he tries to get the NY funding in place used, after three more years of Nassau fixing the seats as they are, fixing the damage and then he'll offer a refurb (at lower cost) in exchange for a sweetheart lease and all rights to revenue. He may yield a little but won't have to yield much.

So.....if he can go from $100M in gross revenue as things are now to attracting more acts, selling more seats, charging more for all seating, charging more for all concessions and advertising and parking and jump the revenue to $180M.

The hockey games make over $1M in revenue a game (third worst in the NHL I believe). The Isles lack luxury boxes, though, a HUGE impediment to sales (guaranteed revenue every night and every event (and a tax write off for businesses)). Add those numbers to the nightly take, and add the additional seats sold just per game and concert, and THEN.....

add the number of acts that will play there compared to the very meager amount that do now.

Is it not a massive increase in revenue?

And is it not true that the lease is tax benefit, the capital improvement is a massive write off, the additional revenue atop the expenses is sizeable and thus, the rationale for spending to increase all revenue streams is very attractive and financially beneficial?

It just won't be in Queenz or Brooklyn

And while we wait and gasp, Wang and Nassau get closer to Wang making his move. A smart one.

For once.


BTW, I was dead wrong about Wang in 1999 when I called him a crook, and was nearly banned, and I was dead wrong about DP and his game and how he'd get injured in no time. I was wrong about the referendum not passing and the LHP not passing, as I said it was a pig in spandex or something like that. I've been wrong a lot. I'm preposterous, afterall.

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Old
07-17-2012, 03:17 AM
  #82
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I tend to agree. If it was a big money winner, he'd have just done it already.
Wait and you get better terms.

http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=566670
Quote:
Mangano continued, “This historic agreement requires the Islanders to share revenue from all events, not just Islanders games, with the tax payers of Nassau County. This public-private partnership, where the revenue generated by the Islanders arena will pay for construction costs, bonding and will provide over $400 million in profits to Nassau County tax payers.”

An independent economic impact analysis has been conducted by Camoin Associates, a private local economic development company. Their findings show the new venue is projected to generate $1.2 billion in gross revenue over the 30-year lease. With $350 million of that sum used to pay off the construction costs, $433 million will fund debt service payments, leaving $403 million of excess revenue generated, which will be used by the County to hold the line on property taxes.
So....if he spends on it and gets a much bigger piece of the pie.....it's HIS $1.2B with much less going back.

Would you wait for a bigger slice of $1.2B? No taxpayer assistance as Mangano and Wang had in the second deal, no $4B cash layout and partnership as the LHP had.....Wang ante's up $200-300M and gets a nice payback, and Nassau gets tax relief guaranteed for 30 years.

Wang ain't stupid. He's an SOB and has no soul, but he's not stupid.

So he uses Brooklyn and time and gets closer to being able to call the shots.

Or do you disagree?

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Old
07-17-2012, 11:55 AM
  #83
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You did get the part about "after 2015".....meaning Murray is not there or sooner to be out than the 2013 I saw you post and have no idea why (unless you're one of the 2013-is-the-latest-we-can-start-building crowd that makes zero sense).

What did my post say? Make NVMC viable, sign the lease renewal, thus controlling the entire property (NO RFQ'S THEN!!! WANG HOLDS DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AFTER HE SIGNS!) and wait until Murray is out, the economy is better and something can be done. Or will you argue this by stating 2013 is the last time ever we can see something happen? I can't help you, then.
I think a lot of developers are going to raise HELL if Wang still holds development rights past 2015. Also even if Murray is out and a Democrat replaces her, a zoning change may be met with resistance from the NIMBY crowd.

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07-17-2012, 12:49 PM
  #84
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I think a lot of developers are going to raise HELL if Wang still holds development rights past 2015. Also even if Murray is out and a Democrat replaces her, a zoning change may be met with resistance from the NIMBY crowd.
Nothing changes if Murray's gone. Another repub puppet will take her place and keep similar zoning because that's what NIMBY's want. No Dem is getting in TOH. Waiting for that or until the economy gets better is just wishfull thinking and time NYI doesn't have. Why would Wang wait until 2015 for nassau's offer? If it's not feasible to him then he has little time to exercise any options if he didn't already. Look for a decision next spring/summer IMO. (Look for that to be a sale to Brooklyn.)

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07-17-2012, 01:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
Waiting for that or until the economy gets better is just wishfull thinking and time NYI doesn't have. Why would Wang wait until 2015 for nassau's offer? If it's not feasible to him then he has little time to exercise any options if he didn't already. Look for a decision next spring/summer IMO. (Look for that to be a sale to Brooklyn.)
Wang's been the owner for 12 yrs.His lease expires in only 3 more seasons.He's out of time?After getting the last minute gift from Souzzi,that was described as a financial windfall?

I think fans expecting Wang to sell before 2015 or sign an agreement with Brooklyn/Queens before 2015,will be very disappointed.

http://www.lettherebelighthouse.com/...e-on-life.html
Thursday, December 24, 2009
•This is the big news: this is not a new lease agreement. Tom Suozzi compelled a sub-lease between SMG and the New York Islanders/Lighthouse Development Group.

In this case, the Islanders/Lighthouse Development Group entered into an agreement with SMG that complements the original document signed with Nassau County. This allows SMG to relinquish its right to some of the revenue streams, an action that benefits the Islanders financially. At the same time, it does not subject the agreement to County approval, because the County is not a party to the agreement. The only issue is for the County Executive to sign off on the deal, which Mr. Suozzi has now done (while he still holds the office).

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07-17-2012, 02:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Wang's been the owner for 12 yrs.His lease expires in only 3 more seasons.He's out of time?After getting the last minute gift from Souzzi,that was described as a financial windfall?

I think fans expecting Wang to sell before 2015 or sign an agreement with Brooklyn/Queens before 2015,will be very disappointed.

http://www.lettherebelighthouse.com/...e-on-life.html
Thursday, December 24, 2009
•This is the big news: this is not a new lease agreement. Tom Suozzi compelled a sub-lease between SMG and the New York Islanders/Lighthouse Development Group.

In this case, the Islanders/Lighthouse Development Group entered into an agreement with SMG that complements the original document signed with Nassau County. This allows SMG to relinquish its right to some of the revenue streams, an action that benefits the Islanders financially. At the same time, it does not subject the agreement to County approval, because the County is not a party to the agreement. The only issue is for the County Executive to sign off on the deal, which Mr. Suozzi has now done (while he still holds the office).
But this agreement does NOT prohibit the Isles from reaching a deal with another municipality elsewhere before 2015. It still requires green light from Nassau County to leave the Coliseum before 2015, likely the reason why Wang hasn't been as active regarding relocation as many wanted.

http://www.lettherebelighthouse.com/...-on-lease.html

SMG will continue to have day-to-day control of the Coliseum.
The Islanders will gain operational control of the arena, handling all Coliseum bookings and receiving all the concessions, parking, and ticket revenue SMG used to receive.
The agreement does not prevent the Islanders from leaving Nassau Coliseum, but they would be required to pay SMG the remainder of their rent, through 2015.
The Islanders would still require County approval to leave Nassau Coliseum.

While removing a major hurdle to getting the Lighthouse Project done, the lease also, admittedly, removes a hurdle to the team leaving Nassau County as well (though there is a permanent injunction still in place forcing the Islanders to play home games at Nassau Coliseum through 2015 - there would likely be an issue with the County should that change).

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07-17-2012, 02:25 PM
  #87
Bert Marshall days
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Wang's been the owner for 12 yrs.His lease expires in only 3 more seasons.He's out of time?After getting the last minute gift from Souzzi,that was described as a financial windfall?

I think fans expecting Wang to sell before 2015 or sign an agreement with Brooklyn/Queens before 2015,will be very disappointed.

http://www.lettherebelighthouse.com/...e-on-life.html
Thursday, December 24, 2009
•This is the big news: this is not a new lease agreement. Tom Suozzi compelled a sub-lease between SMG and the New York Islanders/Lighthouse Development Group.

In this case, the Islanders/Lighthouse Development Group entered into an agreement with SMG that complements the original document signed with Nassau County. This allows SMG to relinquish its right to some of the revenue streams, an action that benefits the Islanders financially. At the same time, it does not subject the agreement to County approval, because the County is not a party to the agreement. The only issue is for the County Executive to sign off on the deal, which Mr. Suozzi has now done (while he still holds the office).
And with that Suozzi gift revised lease NYI lost $8 million last season and were once again last in league revenues per Forbes. Not exactly incentive to stay or not sell prior.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#p_3_s_a0_



Nothing is happening on LI and nothing will change. There's no reason to stay except for nostalgia but that doesn't pay the bills. It's all set up for a sale - keeping costs as low as can be and backloading contracts. A sale can be announced which takes effect 2015 for another municipality or it can be a transfer outright. Again, If it's not feasible to him then he has little time to exercise any options if he didn't already if he waits until 2015.

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07-17-2012, 02:27 PM
  #88
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Nothing changes if Murray's gone. Another repub puppet will take her place and keep similar zoning because that's what NIMBY's want. No Dem is getting in TOH. Waiting for that or until the economy gets better is just wishfull thinking and time NYI doesn't have. Why would Wang wait until 2015 for nassau's offer? If it's not feasible to him then he has little time to exercise any options if he didn't already. Look for a decision next spring/summer IMO. (Look for that to be a sale to Brooklyn.)
I was thinking along the lines of a Democrat in TOH may not be able to change the zoning to the full version of Lighthouse due to NIMBYism.

ALso, I think it's fair to say that whatever Isles ticket reps say regarding relocation is likely a baloney
http://www.*************.com/index.p...post&p=1296022

but the Rep. I just spoke to said that he believes that they'll be playing in Suffolk in the future and that the team will not be leaving LI. Of course he's a just salesman attempting to "drum up" business...but perhaps he has some sort of "inside info.". (Not bloody likely)...so take this with a grain of salt.

http://www.*************.com/index.p...post&p=1296037

Yup, I had previously been led to believe that they'd be moving to Queens.

I think they're just playing to whoever they're speaking to at the moment.


Finally, IF there is an announcement regarding relocation in the next 12 months, I think it will be either Queens or Suffolk (Queens more likely) since I don't think Wang will fetch a reasonable price for the Isles from Ratner at this time.


Last edited by Steve55: 07-17-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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07-17-2012, 02:56 PM
  #89
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[QUOTE=Bert Marshall days;52612897]Awwwwright!!!!!!!!! We're gonna end up in Queens! What I wanted all along!! WOO HOO



"The 8/1 referendum is a slam dunk."

"The Lighthouse project will get done before the Barclay's AY in Brooklyn will."

- Chris Botta


I asked him on his SNY internet show if there are enough Islander fans in Nassau for the referendum to pass. Brian Compton replied of course there are . Should pass with no problem. That I was forgetting all of the business owners in the area who would also come out and vote yes

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07-17-2012, 03:45 PM
  #90
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If Wang is playing his cards like I saw him do at CA when I had them in my portfolio (big mistake), he is acting as a petulant, unyielding robber-baron and waiting with clenched fist to strike, as he did in his many takeovers. He works on CONTROL, with a cynical contempt for competition and regulation. He most likely is waiting to bleed Nassau into submission, and he'll wait to make the best deal come to him, using intimidation. Read up on him, it's fascinating (what an effective a-hole he was).
So this explains your deluded postings...whew...I thought Wang had kidnapped you as a child and forced you to watch video's of the late 90's Islanders while wearing a Fichaud jersey.

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07-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #91
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[QUOTE=Symon Asher;52638213]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
Awwwwright!!!!!!!!! We're gonna end up in Queens! What I wanted all along!! WOO HOO



"The 8/1 referendum is a slam dunk."

"The Lighthouse project will get done before the Barclay's AY in Brooklyn will."

- Chris Botta


I asked him on his SNY internet show if there are enough Islander fans in Nassau for the referendum to pass. Brian Compton replied of course there are . Should pass with no problem. That I was forgetting all of the business owners in the area who would also come out and vote yes
This guy deleted me from his facebook after I posted several comments regarding the possibility of Islanders setting up shop next to the Mets (including uniform unveiling on Nov 16, 2011). This guy was so Nassau-centric like one couldn't believe.

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07-17-2012, 04:02 PM
  #92
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Chares Wang is a terrible person and a huge mistake by the league letting him in.

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07-17-2012, 10:27 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
Awwwwright!!!!!!!!! We're gonna end up in Queens! What I wanted all along!! WOO HOO



"The 8/1 referendum is a slam dunk."

"The Lighthouse project will get done before the Barclay's AY in Brooklyn will."

- Chris Botta



(I'm here all week. Try the veal. Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses)


Bert-

You just make too much sense. Botta should be banned from making any more predictions. In fact, I'd like him to be at the roulette wheel with me. I'm betting on what he doesn't.

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07-18-2012, 08:53 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
And with that Suozzi gift revised lease NYI lost $8 million last season and were once again last in league revenues per Forbes. Not exactly incentive to stay or not sell prior.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#p_3_s_a0_



.

People need to stop quoting Forbes like it's factual. The Islanders, like every other NHL franchise, are not a public company. Forbes figures are estimates they piece together based on what little publicly-released info the team gives out regarding contracts, ticket sales, etc.

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07-18-2012, 09:54 AM
  #95
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People need to stop quoting Forbes like it's factual. The Islanders, like every other NHL franchise, are not a public company. Forbes figures are estimates they piece together based on what little publicly-released info the team gives out regarding contracts, ticket sales, etc.
Unless you have a better more accurate source, Forbes is the best estimate available of finances. The bottom line is the revised lease probably isn't enough to be a difference maker for Wang to keep NYI when the bigger picture of a sale would resolve most of the financial problems.

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07-18-2012, 04:07 PM
  #96
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Bert-

You just make too much sense. Botta should be banned from making any more predictions. In fact, I'd like him to be at the roulette wheel with me. I'm betting on what he doesn't.
LOL

Yeah, just do a George Kostanza and do the opposite of every natural reaction when it comes to listening to CB and you'll do just fine.

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07-21-2012, 06:44 AM
  #97
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If at the end of JT's contract another team submits an offer sheet for him. any opinions on which would have a better chance of retaining JT:

*New NVMC Islanders; or

*Barclay's Center Islanders?

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07-21-2012, 08:16 AM
  #98
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If at the end of JT's contract another team submits an offer sheet for him. any opinions on which would have a better chance of retaining JT:

*New NVMC Islanders; or

*Barclay's Center Islanders?


Brooklyn

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07-21-2012, 08:20 AM
  #99
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If at the end of JT's contract another team submits an offer sheet for him. any opinions on which would have a better chance of retaining JT:

*New NVMC Islanders; or

*Barclay's Center Islanders?
If the islanders stay in the nvmc or it gets renovated or newly built, it would mean wang still owns the team. which means continued failure so my question is, does it really matter? tavares is going to wanna run away from this franchise like the road runner does from wily coyote.

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07-21-2012, 06:38 PM
  #100
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A question for those that hate Wang but want the Isles to stay on Long Island (Nassau/Suffolk): would you rather have the team under new ownership in Brooklyn or have Wang continue to own the team with a new building on the Island?

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